Carbink break only works on fighting types.
2017 Format Rotation Announced!
- Thread starter Water Pokémon Master
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This is by far the best news for a player (me) coming back into the scene after a long hiatus. Sure, more broken combos will appear and surely dark will be out of control but its going to be so much better in so many other ways. We can expect sun/moon gen during this rotation and itll be in full swing, pretty much perfect.
Enhanced Hammer was reprinted as a Secret Rare in Primal Clash and Aerodactyl Spirit Link is XY99 (Promos XY36 and above are legal in the upcoming format), but other than that you're spot on.
I expect Expanded will always be BW-on. It seems like it was designed to be "balanced Unlimited" IMO. The fact they've standardized the card layout and stuff since BW makes it pretty easy to do, also. You don't get a bunch of mismatched layouts and mechanics. (Such as HGSS cards having Poke-Bodies and Poke-Powers be a thing.)
And I actually do kinda think Dragalge being rotated is kinda noteworthy. Not because it's even vaguely relevant now (it's not), but because with AZ and Cassius being rotated, it becomes much easier to stick things in place. (Switch, Escape Rope and Olympia are a thing, but Switch and Escape Rope aren't easily recurrable, and nobody's going to use Olympia anyway.) It still wouldn't have been relevant, but it would have been more interesting. Oh well. Not a big deal. And you could apply this logic to every format. There's always been cards that were worse solely due to what else was in the format.
And I actually do kinda think Dragalge being rotated is kinda noteworthy. Not because it's even vaguely relevant now (it's not), but because with AZ and Cassius being rotated, it becomes much easier to stick things in place. (Switch, Escape Rope and Olympia are a thing, but Switch and Escape Rope aren't easily recurrable, and nobody's going to use Olympia anyway.) It still wouldn't have been relevant, but it would have been more interesting. Oh well. Not a big deal. And you could apply this logic to every format. There's always been cards that were worse solely due to what else was in the format.
So, if Dimensional Valley will get rotated, Psychic decks will cause their dilemma like M-Alakazam and Trev BREAK
I do not expect it to always be BW-On because I do not expect them to keep the current card layout indefinitely. However you raise a good point as this might lead to the longest period of standardization that we've yet seen. Since I almost wrote an essay about it, basically we can roughly break down the major card layout eras into
- Base Set through the Legendary Collection
- Expedition through Skyridge
- EX: Ruby/Sapphire through EX: Power Keepers
- Diamond & Pearl through PL: Arceus
- HeartGold/SoulSilver through Call of Legends
- Black & White through present
I will make the counter argument to this. First we don't know what will or won't be printed; that can go either way but a replacement for AZ and company might be on the horizon. With Skyla being reprinted this generation, maybe AZ will pull a similar stunt (but probably not). You just explained why Olympia might become good, and as someone that criticized the card before I don't like defending her. XD If the lock is that important, even breaking it once or twice can be a big deal and so Switch and Escape Rope still matter. Then there is Zoroark (XY: BREAKthrough 91/162) with Float Stone. Without Startling Megaphone and Xerosic, Garbodor (XY: BREAKpoint 57/122) usage might increase.
So yeah, I am thinking Dragalge leaving the format is still a non-issue.
Anything that relies on a tool like Zoroark and Garbodor will now reign supreme as there will be no way to remove those tools. Get used to not using abilities.
All psychic decks get nerfed, without Dimension Valley and Mystery energy, it will slow them down, so Alakazam decks get less viable.
Due to AZ and Super Scoop up being rotated, I think Shaymin-EX 's price will go down, it will be less viable as it will be a one use thing, unless you discard it from the bench (like using the new M Gardevoir to do it) and then use Super Rod to get it back. (sacred ash is gone too).
So for card draw, Octillery is looking better and better, I would expect the price of it to go up. although some decks don't use either Shaymin or Octillery like Greninja Break, so you may not even need them.
All psychic decks get nerfed, without Dimension Valley and Mystery energy, it will slow them down, so Alakazam decks get less viable.
Due to AZ and Super Scoop up being rotated, I think Shaymin-EX 's price will go down, it will be less viable as it will be a one use thing, unless you discard it from the bench (like using the new M Gardevoir to do it) and then use Super Rod to get it back. (sacred ash is gone too).
So for card draw, Octillery is looking better and better, I would expect the price of it to go up. although some decks don't use either Shaymin or Octillery like Greninja Break, so you may not even need them.
To all those people saying shaymin EX can't be re-used during a game, remember that we'll get Ninja Boy in Steam Siege.
Yes, good point, I guess that will be the replacement for AZ. You can use it on Hoopa EX as well
Oh that's nice. But it's an attack still
Do we lose Stardust Jirachi?
Nope. It is XY: Black Star Promo XY67.
Will this expanded rotation be the first where there were 3 generations in rotation? It's staying BW on, so BW and XY sets are still going to be there, and the dawn of the Sun and Moon era will be there too.
Also, i'll list the things that got hurt by this rotation.
Pokemon that were rotated: Toad, NM, Bronzong, XY Trevanent, XY Greninja, Pyroar FLF, Mega Manectric, Lucario EX. Agieslash EX, Malamar EX
Trainers that were rotated: Muscle band, Korrina, Blacksmith, Battle Compressor , Dimension Valley. Darkness Stadium I forgot the name of
Things hindered by this rotation: Vespiquen (Lost Compressor), Bats (Lost Crobat, Golbat was in GEN,) Greninga BREAK (Lost XY Greninga), Trevvenant BREAK (Lost Trevenant XY), AOR Eeveeloutions (Lost FUF Eevee), Marowack Fates Collide (Lost Toad, the card it was built to counter), VS seeker (Lost Compressor).
Also, i'll list the things that got hurt by this rotation.
Pokemon that were rotated: Toad, NM, Bronzong, XY Trevanent, XY Greninja, Pyroar FLF, Mega Manectric, Lucario EX. Agieslash EX, Malamar EX
Trainers that were rotated: Muscle band, Korrina, Blacksmith, Battle Compressor , Dimension Valley. Darkness Stadium I forgot the name of
Things hindered by this rotation: Vespiquen (Lost Compressor), Bats (Lost Crobat, Golbat was in GEN,) Greninga BREAK (Lost XY Greninga), Trevvenant BREAK (Lost Trevenant XY), AOR Eeveeloutions (Lost FUF Eevee), Marowack Fates Collide (Lost Toad, the card it was built to counter), VS seeker (Lost Compressor).
Two pretty important omissions here
1) All of Az, Cassius and Super Scoop-Up leave standard. Meaning precious few ways to remove a Pokémon from play.
2) As do both Xerosic & Megaphone, meaning sod all ways to counter an opponent's tool card (Oh hai Garbodor).
I am happy with this new rotation and a lot of cards will be missed but others will not
1. Item lock will not be as dominant unless the last set of xy brings back seismatoad, or trevanant (xy) since both of these cards have not seen a reprint. Of course we still have vileplume but it will not be as viable without battle compressors just to clog up your deck and vespiquen will be a lot less powerful.
2. Mega rayquaza and rainbow road will be new top teir decks now with dual types introduced it can hit hard as early as turn 1 hoopa ex with a max elixer and dce. Joltik and mega manectric kept mega rayquaza in check but we still have ways to counter it like zoroark and parallel city so those cards will see more play along with mega mewtwo who could not survive in a night march format.
3. I think a card most people look over is the rotation of muscle band as every deck could use that card but since we have gotten fighting fury belt it seems that this card has also fallen out of favor to it.
4. Greninja break is still viable since I liked playing the xy greninja to snipe joltiks and do a giant water shurkien+water shurkien+moonlight slash for a knock out on ex pokemon but it seems that is not possible anymore and will have to set up for 2 hit knock outs.
5. Startling megaphone and xerosic will be rotated so we must have a way to get tools off of garbador
In the next set hopefuly they reprint most of the much needed rotated cards back into the format with the November set.
1. Item lock will not be as dominant unless the last set of xy brings back seismatoad, or trevanant (xy) since both of these cards have not seen a reprint. Of course we still have vileplume but it will not be as viable without battle compressors just to clog up your deck and vespiquen will be a lot less powerful.
2. Mega rayquaza and rainbow road will be new top teir decks now with dual types introduced it can hit hard as early as turn 1 hoopa ex with a max elixer and dce. Joltik and mega manectric kept mega rayquaza in check but we still have ways to counter it like zoroark and parallel city so those cards will see more play along with mega mewtwo who could not survive in a night march format.
3. I think a card most people look over is the rotation of muscle band as every deck could use that card but since we have gotten fighting fury belt it seems that this card has also fallen out of favor to it.
4. Greninja break is still viable since I liked playing the xy greninja to snipe joltiks and do a giant water shurkien+water shurkien+moonlight slash for a knock out on ex pokemon but it seems that is not possible anymore and will have to set up for 2 hit knock outs.
5. Startling megaphone and xerosic will be rotated so we must have a way to get tools off of garbador
In the next set hopefuly they reprint most of the much needed rotated cards back into the format with the November set.
Everything you said is pretty spot on. Except about greninja. You can still one hit KO EX cards cause the breakpoint greninja has free retreat cost so you can giant shuriken twice and then moonlight slash
The biggest omission for me is that there isn't a Trainer card capable of removing tools. I'm fairly certain, therefore, that either we will get a reprint of Startling Megaphone (or Tool Scrapper) in Steam Siege or in the set coming afterwards.
We do not know yet what reprints will be in steam seige or any potential bonus decks or products that might be coming out.
I genuinely think we need to see reprints of type specific staples that help multiple decks, Blacksmith, Korrina & Dimension valley are all very important cards and also balanced due to typing restrictions. I'm very sad to see these leave.
Also with NM gone Mega decks are gonna do well, M ray, M Alakazam & M Mewtwo all seem set for a big come back.
I genuinely think we need to see reprints of type specific staples that help multiple decks, Blacksmith, Korrina & Dimension valley are all very important cards and also balanced due to typing restrictions. I'm very sad to see these leave.
Also with NM gone Mega decks are gonna do well, M ray, M Alakazam & M Mewtwo all seem set for a big come back.
I'm glad I didn't make a bet on this because I'd have lost! Even though it may be nice to see the back of Night March (provided stuff doesn't get reprinted between now and rotation) I actually thought rotation would be PHF-onwards. What they've done here is rotate from everything that's Hoenn themed really, even with the promos (not that we're losing anything of note there).
I'd be surprised if Muscle Band and Battle Compressor don't see a reprint before (or shortly after) rotation somehow though. Battle Compressor particularly is such a good card in so many decks, it'll be a shame to see it go. Xerosic too, actually.
As for Pokémon we're losing, I'm mourning the loss of PHF Crobat the most. Loved Crobat decks, it just won't be the same with just Zubat and Golbat.
I'd be surprised if Muscle Band and Battle Compressor don't see a reprint before (or shortly after) rotation somehow though. Battle Compressor particularly is such a good card in so many decks, it'll be a shame to see it go. Xerosic too, actually.
As for Pokémon we're losing, I'm mourning the loss of PHF Crobat the most. Loved Crobat decks, it just won't be the same with just Zubat and Golbat.