Abomasnow or Toxicroak G - Which supports Regigigas better?

Who should I choose?

  • Toxicroak G PL

    Votes: 11 45.8%
  • Abomasnow SF

    Votes: 13 54.2%

  • Total voters
    24

DNA

Goodbye, everyone. I'll miss you all.
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rofl, is this enough words for you, dmaster?

Without going too much into detail, I have a Regigigas-based deck, and I'm constantly tweaking and modifying the list to make it better. And since Cities has come around I've become aware of a few things - although my deck cannot really have a true Machamp counter, I at least need a response. I've narrowed it down to two main cards, and each one takes up exactly 3 slots in the deck, so I can interchange them on the fly. Here are the two cards:

Toxicroak G PL - Cards used: 1 Toxicroak G, 1 Skuntank G, 1 Psychic Energy
Abomasnow SF - Cards used: 1 Snover, 1 Abomasnow, 1 Double Colorless Energy


First, Toxicroak G. He's my Machamp response in the deck right now. He starts off with a good solid 90 HP, plus a nifty little effect that prevents disruption attacks such as Magnezone's Gyro Ball, or Blaziken FB's Luring Flame; if Toxicroak G is on my bench he can pretty much snipe any attack like that flat. When Active, he's protected from Special Conditions AND Machamp's Take Out. He's used in conjunction with Skuntank G, who triggers when I play down a Snowpoint. (Skuntank G I can even use w/o Toxicroak G active, as my active is usually either a Dialga G, who is an SP himself, or is Regigigas, who can remove special conditions from himself.) With 1 Psychic Energy and 1 Energy Gain, he instantly becomes a solid heavy-hitter with 110 HP, that can hit for 60 a turn, plus poison. The downside is that I only run 1 Psychic Energy, and if it's prized I lose my only real response to Machamp (and guess what - that happened at Cities recently). Also his efficacy is cut drastically if I don't have a Stadium in play, which I can't really search for.

Next, Abomasnow SF. With a whopping 100 HP on a Stage 1 (thereby making him the only non-basic in the deck), he can get set up very quickly even without the use of Broken Time-Space. When Active, he gives my entire side an Exoskeleton effect, not only protecting himself, but the bench, turning a potential Dragon Rush into 60 damage, forcing the opponent to burn up a Bat to get an easy prize on a pixie. He can attack right away with 1 DCE attached, hitting every opponent for 20 damage, save any benched Water/Grass types. Because he is Stage 1, he also does not fail to Machamp's Take Out, and because of his Poke-Body his effective HP is actually a lot higher than 100. Belt it and he can be deadly. (I run 2 DCE now; with Abomasnow that makes 3 so it isn't a problem to draw into one.) The cons I see is his retreat cost is sorta hefty, and his damage output, unless equipped with Expert Belt, is sorta low - he mostly can only serve to weaken any actives or benches from an eventual knockout from Gigas. He also cannot take advantage of Poke Turn or Energy Gain like Toxicroak can, and if he runs into Blaziken FB he is done for. (I do run a Regice in the deck, but if I see a Blaziken I don't need to drop him down.)


Vote in the poll, and/or post in the topic, about who you think I should run in the deck, and why. Constructive feedback is always appreciated!
 
I run exactly 2 Snowpoint Temple. I own 1 Galactic HQ but since my meta is SP heavy I'd worry more about keeping myself alive than worry about my opponent evolving. Even so...but I'd still have to take 1 thing out to put that in.
 
I would definitely put in galactic HQ, since even though it's useless against SP, so is snowpoint. It kills machamp, since it puts in in OHKO range with regigigas if they evolve once or twice.
 
@Minimidget: I can see your argument, but the point of the topic is to ask whether or not I should use Toxicroak or Abomasnow. I'll figure out the Galactic HQ thing on my own.
 
I'd use Toxicroak. Psychic energy getting prized can be a pain, but Toxitank helps more to block Machamp than Abomasnow.
However, if you see a lot of Mewtwo LV.X around, Abomasnow is the way to go.
 
If I am correct, your deck is based on Dialga G and Regigigas.

You are playing an half SP deck, so I assume that you are playing Aaron s collection. Therefore (I voted for Skuntank G), this tech is sort of renewable, that compared to Abomasnow. Plus, I am once again assuming that your deck has no problem against decks besides machamp. I don t see how abomasnow is going to help you to beat Machamp. Need time? You will just put some damage counter on your opponent s machamp so they can use Rage. Even with you poke-body, you will not survive. Most of all, you don t want to run a water energy, which could paralyse machamp and kill it next turn with a bat. But even with that, it is not renewable. Finally, your deck has a Sp toolbox, which makes Toxitank easier to bring out and can be set in one turn, compared to abomasnow, 2 turns. But (there is always a downside), as machamp is a stage 2 deck, it runs most likely 3-4 BTS, and you, 2 Snowpoint temple. It lowers your chance to get you system to work.

If I were you, I would try to put more Stadiums (Galactic HQ is interesting) and put more Toxitanks. It works not only against machamp, but other s too. Plus, you can t beat a machamp deck only with one set of Toxitank.

My opinion.

I have just realized that to use Giga Blaster, you have to have water energies, so...
 
^^Abomasnow serves as a triple(quad?) counter to Machamp, Donphan, Mewtwo and during worlds ERL. You would buy a turn by Paralyzing it with Abomasnows attack and then knocking it out with a Crobat/Expert Belt.

I'm not sure, I'm more in favor of Snow, but at the same the idea doesn't sound as great as it could be. Toxitank is dead in a few match ups (Luxchomp/Dialgachomp) so that is kind of iffy as well. There has to be a better counter, Honchkrow SV comes to mind as another triple counter, however it means you need to be able to run Dark Energies.
 
I see one problem with Abomasnow: It can get killed with Rage, or even Machamp Prime who just says thank-you to your spread and kills you in 1 blow.
 
It's not really a Machamp counter - more of some sort of response. I have no real way to stop Machamp.

I've taken all your suggestions into account and I got very good feedback from all of you; thank you very much! For now I'm going to try Abomasnow as I think it may make the deck work better, but if it doesn't do as well as I would hope, I'll switch back to Toxicroak G and then see what happens from there.

Again, thank you one and all for your input!
 
a 1-1 abomasnow is a good enough tech. it helps against machamp, donphan and mewtwo.get a water energy onto a snover, then when the mewtwo hits the active, evolev and hit for 60 and paralyze. they either belt to avoid getting KOed (then you belt to KO for 2 prizes) or they get koed next turn. they could warp out but that will make it harder for them to KO your mewtwo counter. and even then you can pokemon rescue it back.

all you gotta do to make it as effective as possible is to play 4 DCE and 1 azelf.
 
^and then what? Take two other turns just to kill a machamp (or something else)? You know what? Opponent s Machamp is going to have a Rescue and a BTS and be even faster than you. I believe that DNA s RegiAwsome has no problem to kill any other deck (unless he is extremely unlucky). That is why I am mostly talking about Machamp.

Oh, plus, Mewtwo isn t that played now, as it walls only against Basic, not even SP because of Dialga G and Snipe.

P.S.: I just realized that DNA runs Dialga G, so bye bye Mewtwo.
 
There's no more Mewtwo LV.X in my area anymore. But yeah, Dialga GX was originally put to counter Mewtwo, and now it counters Vileplume. I just need to make sure I don't have a DGX and an Abomasnow on the field at the same time, but the odds of that are highly unlikely. And yeah, bad luck is my only real weakness. If I start with just 1 Cyrus or 1 Collector in the starting hand I'm set for life.

...I'd totally forgot about my Donphan matchup, but Abomasnow I just realized actually makes it a lot better than it is already. It goes from Even straight to Favorable =D
 
Oh, right! I forgot that Regigigas has Fighting Weakness! So, Donphan is giving some trouble too! (But, I am not sure, in another of your post or thread, you said you could handle Donphan not too bad, so...

Anyway, if Donphan is a problem too, Abomasnow is an intresting idea, but it won t KO a Donphan in one shot with Below Zero (The second Donphan, as they are going to attach Rescue or have another one on the bench) because of Exosqueleton. If you Lv.X Dialga, you lose your defense aginst Donphan, as instead of getting KO in 3 turns by Donphan, you get KO in 2 turns, so...

Plus, Your Spread will not work because the two things that can be paired with Donphan is either Nidoqueen or Manetric. Dialga? Look what I wrote above.

Therefore, I prefer Toxitank due to the disadvandage of Abomasnow state above.
 
Yeah, but if you level up Dialga then your one-shotting them while they're two shotting you. Plus, the point is to evolve, below zero and paralyze, then snow play for the KO.
 
Abomasnow is already working better than toxicroak, so I'm highly optimistic right now. (The ability to one-hit a Blaziken with Snow Play after a Jet Shoot is pretty awesome, actually. Not to mention every Dragon Rush only does 60 damage.)
 
Obama/Dialga with all those Pokemon Rescue sounds like it beats donphan. Just curious, because the ability to paralyze right when you want to sounds too good to pass up, have you played Lucians, and what switch effects do you have?

I've heard locally that Macheap players are considering Regice. Look out when you play Toxicroak.

Oh, and this is my 666th post. I'm sorry I jynxed you.

~L_X_F
 
you're LATE

I don't really run Lucian's in my deck, but you are right about the Below Zero bit. Because of that, I standardly keep a Water Energy in my hand at all times, or attach it to Snover as soon as possible (if it doesn't hinder my setup of Giga Blaster). I've played about 7 games with Abomasnow so far and that's usually what the case is. Sometimes I'm lucky enough to get a Snow Play KO when Belted (Jet Shoot makes people slower).

And yes, my matchup is good against Donphan. I haven't officially tested it against Donphan, but it should work in theory.
 
Just saying, against anything running machamp prime, your techs are useless. Even with E belt Abomasnow wont survive the 150 Champ Buster.
 
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