At least I'd hope it's tier 1....
Discussion Archie's Blastoise
- Thread starter Matthew Townend
- Start date
Archies Blastoise isn't close to tier one, especially since things like Vileplume, Hem Maniac, Siemitoad EX, and Wobbuffet pretty much shut it down easily and are (or will be) very common in the meta. At most it's a long shot of a tier three for a lot of reasons. Archie's Ace in the Hole is very hard to pull off and even with Blastoise in the discard, it's still needed for you to possibly run a line of it to ensure you still get it. There's also the fact that Pokémon like Primal Kyogre and Mega Manectric. While they don't allow you get as many energy by an ability, they still allow acceleration because you're either attaching two per turn to Kyogre, or you're pulling two out of the discard and quickly setting up. Plus there's now the threat of Vespiquen which is easily able to OHKO a Blastoise with a Muscle Band and three Pokémon in the discard. Another thing too, if you're talking about the Boundaries Crossed Blastoise, then it's out of rotation for the Standard Format. It'll be in Expanded, but I don't see it being a potential threat to anything. As for M. Blastoise from the X/Y Set, it wont fair much better due to a lackluster attack and better options to use.
My reaction when worlds had a top 4 blastoise list
https://capriquariusmei.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/meme.jpg
I mean seriously, can we just move on from 2011?
as good as it is, the highest tier it will go to is tier 2, in my opinion. it lost eggs this year, and that is a HUGE blow to this deck. Another Big blow, there was one...oh! I remember now! We lose blastoise. (Face palm) in expanded, there will be too much toad, and vileplume, so it is almost impossible to burn through your hand and pull off an archie's. it's just so sad, as this deck was so short lived in my opinion...
https://capriquariusmei.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/meme.jpg
I mean seriously, can we just move on from 2011?
as good as it is, the highest tier it will go to is tier 2, in my opinion. it lost eggs this year, and that is a HUGE blow to this deck. Another Big blow, there was one...oh! I remember now! We lose blastoise. (Face palm) in expanded, there will be too much toad, and vileplume, so it is almost impossible to burn through your hand and pull off an archie's. it's just so sad, as this deck was so short lived in my opinion...
First off, how are you comparing Archies Blastoise to Ancient Origins cards? Vileplume, Vespiquen, and Hex Maniac won't even be in the same format as Archies Blastoise outside of most Regionals. You are right that the increase of Grass in this next format would make Blastoise obsolete for the Regionals meta, but Blastoise and Keldeo EX are both being rotated regardless so why does it matter how it would do in the meta. People need to realize that BCR-AOR isn't a thing, only XY-AOR and BW-AOR.
Also, the reasons you list for the deck being Tier one deck don't make sense. Don't forget that this deck won Worlds in the Master Division. Meaning it had to go through Day 1 (5 wins), Day 2 (7 wins?), and Day 3 (3 wins) to win the entire tournament. These are also the toughest players in the world, so it wasn't a few theme deck wins and whatnot.
Saying this deck is 'hard to pull off' is pretty silly. With Battle Compressor, Ultra Ball, Trainer's Mail, Acro Bike, Computer Search, Shaymin EX, etc. getting a turn one is very easy. If not turn 2.
The Mega Evolution Pokemon you mentioned are EX Pokemon, meaning they give up 2 prizes. Their energy attachments through an attack not an ability, which can be worst in some situations. They don't get to attach more then their attack/mega turbo. Blastoise is only limited to Garb and Wobbuffet, which is easily countered by Xerosic and Lysandre.
The only playable water type is Seismitoad EX, but with the possibility of a special water type energy in our fall set, we could see an increase of water types.
If you would of read, I said it was being rotated out and would be in expanded. I know it won worlds, but coming in to the next rotation, even in expanded it will be dealing with a lot of hard obstacles that it would need to overcome. Of course Shaymin EX make's it easier for you to pull it off against things like Toad where you're item locked. Of course EX's give up two Prizes but if you can't Blastiose set up quickly you're going to be in a world of hurt and in Expanded I don't see it being a tier one deck because of upcoming decks either locking, or quickly hitting for weakness. Everyone knew about Archie's Blastoise, but no one expected it to be there either. With Toad, M. Rayquaza, and Fighting decks being popular I'm pretty sure no one expected to face Blastoise.
You talked about the meta, then about Ancient Origin cards, and then Archie's Blastoise. I know it will only be in expanded, but there isn't an expanded tournament for awhile so it is hard to guess how well the deck will actually do until Regionals comes along. We can assume with grass support and shiftry that the deck will fizzle out; only time will tell.
Toad item lock doesn't happen until a turn of items from either player. With that time I'd expect to be able to set up a turn 1 blastoise. And like I said before with all of the item cards in the format, Blastoise is very achievable turn 1 and rarely misses.
Archies Blastoise was on some people's radar, but it definitely wasn't tested as well as Toad and Manectric decks were.