Pokémon Ash-Greninja: Battle Bond?

Scattered mind

Scattered mind

Competitive VG Forums Mod
Forum Mod
Member
It looks like we are getting Ash-Greninja in the following demo of Pokemon Sun and Moon! So far, the only thing we know is that instead of Protean, this Greninja will have a special ability called Battle Bond, which changes Greninja to Ash-Greninja after it has reached a certain condition. What do you think about that ability? What do you hope it will be?

Discuss & Speculate :]
 
the condition is that it has to knockout an opponent's pokemon to bond evolve (i guess that''s what you call it). otherwise, meh. if other pokemon get this, i might be more interested.
 
Unless Ash-Greninja has ridiculous stats, it won't be good.

Protean is huge. Give it a 50% boost in both offensive stats to make up for the loss of Protean and then we'll talk. Though by then you're looking at a BST of 630 so that seems very unlikely.
 
A feel like this ability will be a pinch ability; probably the mirror opposite of Defeatist. (Instead of a 50% stat drop, probably a 50% stat increase.)

But, unless Battle Bond gets a really powerful effect; why bother when Protean is a broken, but better Ability?
 
Pokemon.com said:
Ash-Greninja's leg strength has been enhanced compared to an ordinary Greninja, making it difficult to see because of the speed at which it can move. It takes its enemies out in a flash! It becomes able to make giant Water Shurikens on its back, and it can throw them in rapid succession.
Click to expand...

I guess that its stats will indeed change, particularly the speed stat. Kind of an enhanced Moxie. Also, the move Water Shuriken might change as well.
Will it be possible to trigger it through knocking your ally? Although it must be really worth it if you do that just to trigger its ability.

Leronne said:
the condition is that it has to knockout an opponent's pokemon to bond evolve (i guess that''s what you call it). otherwise, meh. if other pokemon get this, i might be more interested.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I guess we can now predict that if the Pokemon Anime ever introduce another Pokemon to syncro evolve with a character, it is bound to appear in the games :p
 
I'mma echo Bippa on this one. Greninja needs Protean to be viable; unless Ash-Greninja has some major redeeming quality, it's just gonna sit in the box forever.
 
I wonder if this ability will be breedable? Otherwise we could be stuck with whatever we get from the demo...
 
King Xerneas said:
I wonder if this ability will be breedable? Otherwise we could be stuck with whatever we get from the demo...
Click to expand...

I was also wondering about it. I just don't remember a similar Pokemon to compare it with this one. My bet is that it won't be breedable, but if so, I think it means it would not be allowed in VGC, like any event Pokemon.
 
I think Protean is better off. Too bad they just had to use Greninja, who is otherwise not that good of a Pokémon, to show off this "synchro evolution," as it seems like it could help balance against Megas, but to give it to such an underwhelming Pokémon that relies on a HA to be good was a bad choice, should've gave it to another Pokémon to show off the mechanic.
 
A stat rise from the sync evolution will boost Water and Dark attacks, which isn't something that Protean can boast. It might also occupy a higher Speed tier and outrun revenge killers like Weavile and M-Manectric. It's not necessarily inferior to Protean.

It does of course require the activation condition of fainting an opponent's Pokemon, which is the big snag. The closest comparison would be Moxie; an ability that's great but situational. I think players would side with Protean because it's much more reliable.
 
Secret Agent Seal said:
A stat rise from the sync evolution will boost Water and Dark attacks, which isn't something that Protean can boast. It might also occupy a higher Speed tier and outrun revenge killers like Weavile and M-Manectric. It's not necessarily inferior to Protean.

It does of course require the activation condition of fainting an opponent's Pokemon, which is the big snag. The closest comparison would be Moxie; an ability that's great but situational. I think players would side with Protean because it's much more reliable.
Click to expand...
Well with Protean you have an instant boost in power versus having to KO your opponent's Pokémon, which is going to take some help because Greninja not only lacks a boosting move, but is a glass cannon and doesn't have the best Atk / Sp. Atk anyways.
 
Here are some damage calcs to see just how strong Protean is:

This is standard Greninja from his days in OU:
20 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 346-408 (87.8 - 103.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
236 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 125-148 (34.4 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

In order for non-Protean to outdamage Protean, here's what would need to happen:

+1 20 Atk Life Orb Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 346-408 (87.8 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
20 Atk Life Orb Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 346-408 (87.8 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO (modified attack stat to 153)
+2 236 SpA Life Orb Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 161-192 (44.3 - 52.8%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO (+1 doesn't outdamage)
236 SpA Life Orb Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 125-148 (34.4 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (modified SpA to 183)

I could see a Speed increase helping to make Greninja-A more viable, but I feel like it's still going to end up being the Latios-M for Greninja. The stat increases needed to beat Protean are ridiculous.
 
What about the physical side? We all know that Protean Greninja is mostly viable with both special and physical moves (mix set). Perhaps the real thing about it is a new signature move in the form of Water Shuriken being modified somehow. Protean Greninja almost never run this move and is not famous for it. I think this might be the only balanced way to make it viable even with Protean Greninja around. For example: having Water Shuriken do more damage with priority plus 2 (and let that be what they hinted with their talking about speed). My bet is that PP is right and it is going to be like Mega Latios, but I can still have a tiny hope that they would get more creative than just boosting its stats.
 
scattered mind said:
What about the physical side? We all know that Protean Greninja is mostly viable with both special and physical moves (mix set). Perhaps the real thing about it is a new signature move in the form of Water Shuriken being modified somehow. Protean Greninja almost never run this move and is not famous for it. I think this might be the only balanced way to make it viable even with Protean Greninja around. For example: having Water Shuriken do more damage with priority plus 2 (and let that be what they hinted with their talking about speed). My bet is that PP is right and it is going to be like Mega Latios, but I can still have a tiny hope that they would get more creative than just boosting its stats.
Click to expand...
It's base stat in Atk is 95 compared to its' Sp. Atk of 103, notable physical moves include Shadow Sneak / Water Shuriken / Bounce / Night Slash / Return / Acrobatics / Gunk Shot / Ice Punch / Low Kick

Water Shuriken isn't as useless as people think, it's a little interesting in having +1 priority (albeit don't confuse me with saying it should be on every set)
 
I wonder whether Smogon unban Greninja, but ban the protean instead. Without Protean, he is just a little bit faster than Infernape and at least we can try out Battle Bond Greninja. None really care about Kecleon's Protean anyway
 
LuciasXZ said:
I wonder whether Smogon unban Greninja, but ban the protean instead. Without Protean, he is just a little bit faster than Infernape and at least we can try out Battle Bond Greninja. None really care about Kecleon's Protean anyway
Click to expand...

I was wondering about it too, and I found this response of Smogon on their Facebook page:

Pokémon that are different forms are usually tiered different (Landorus for example), but since this doesn't start out as the alternate form, it is likely that it would be tiered with regular Greninja.
Click to expand...

So I guess they are going to either ban Greninja with all its abilities, or not ban it at all.
 
The way Smogon tiers, they will most likely leave it banned.

inb4 Ash-Greninja is uber on its own merits
 
PMJ said:
The way Smogon tiers, they will most likely leave it banned.

inb4 Ash-Greninja is uber on its own merits
Click to expand...
I guess we'll find out in 10 ish hours

Im probably gonna speed run it to see what all comes and then replay it to get the full deets about the demo
 
So Ash-Greninja might actually be pretty good
It's gets +110 BST (+50 Attack and Special Attack, and +10 Speed) and it boosts Water Shuriken (which is now special)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top