Blastoise Variants

Mora

Mora

Don't Panic
Member
This thread is used for all competitive discussion on Blastoise variants in the Expanded format. This includes strategies, playstyles, and techs.

You may post decklists here, but only as a means to add to the discussion. If you're looking for advice on your list, post in the Deck Garage.

Articles:

Lessons to Learn from Worlds and How to Optimize PTCGO Testing
3, 2, 1... Blastoff with Blastoise!

Pokémon: 11
  • 2 Blastoise (BCR 31)
  • 3 Keldeo EX (BCR 142)
  • 2 Jirachi EX (PLB 98)
  • 2 Shaymin EX (ROS 106)
  • 2 Exeggcute (PLB 102)
Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums: 34
  • 2 Professor Juniper
  • 2 Archie's Ace in the Hole
  • 1 N
  • 1 Lysandre
  • 1 Fisherman
  • 4 Acro Bike
  • 4 Battle Compressor
  • 4 Superior Energy Retrieval
  • 4 Trainers' Mail
  • 4 Ultra Ball
  • 4 VS Seeker
  • 1 Float Stone
  • 1 Computer Search
  • 1 Rough Seas
Energy: 11
  • 11 Water Energy
Open Spots: 4
 
It seems this deck would struggle significantly with Vespiquen variants, is that true? If so, would upping the Articuno AT count to 2 be a good idea?
 
Chewy said:
It seems this deck would struggle significantly with Vespiquen variants, is that true? If so, would upping the Articuno AT count to 2 be a good idea?
Click to expand...
It definitely could be. Articuno is really good against non-EX attackers. If you don't play two then a cool thing you can do is Archies back the Articuno.
 
An interesting core change to the deck from watching the AZ top8; +4 Unown, -4 Acro Bike. After playing some games with it, it does make a lot of sense and I think Unowns improve the deck by a lot.
 
Chewy said:
An interesting core change to the deck from watching the AZ top8; +4 Unown, -4 Acro Bike. After playing some games with it, it does make a lot of sense and I think Unowns improve the deck by a lot.
Click to expand...
It does make sense for getting the Archie's, but it's a lot worse when it comes to digging for SER's.
 
Doesn't the deck feel kinda clumsy without the Basics and Stage 1's? I mean, how do you time the Archie so you can get the Blastoise out?
 
RunningWithScizors said:
Doesn't the deck feel kinda clumsy without the Basics and Stage 1's? I mean, how do you time the Archie so you can get the Blastoise out?
Click to expand...
On the first turn, with a really amazing degree of consistency. That's what the entire draw engine is built to do. You have so many outs to Archie's and so many ways to manipulate your hand size that a good player can do it a solid majority of the time.
 
Asclepius24 said:
On the first turn, with a really amazing degree of consistency. That's what the entire draw engine is built to do. You have so many outs to Archie's and so many ways to manipulate your hand size that a good player can do it a solid majority of the time.
Click to expand...

Well, every time I've tried to use Archie or Maxie with something, I've never been able to pull it off. I always miss the timing. So if you could provide a good step-by-step example of how you could pull it off, then maybe I could be convinced.
 
RunningWithScizors said:
Well, every time I've tried to use Archie or Maxie with something, I've never been able to pull it off. I always miss the timing. So if you could provide a good step-by-step example of how you could pull it off, then maybe I could be convinced.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should see if there are any videos of someone playing this deck on YouTube or something. I don't think that's something I or anyone can really tell you; watching the kinds of things that players will do to control their hand size is probably the best way to learn. What you do to pull it off really just depends on what's in your hand.
 
RunningWithScizors said:
Well, every time I've tried to use Archie or Maxie with something, I've never been able to pull it off. I always miss the timing. So if you could provide a good step-by-step example of how you could pull it off, then maybe I could be convinced.
Click to expand...
What decks were you playing with those cards without much success? Were they add-ins, or was the entire deck focused on hitting the combo T1? Adding Archie's or Maxie's to a deck and hoping to pull it off once in a while just isn't worth it. If you want to use those cards consistently, which you should, the entire deck needs to be built around it. It's less a matter of "timing" than it is hand manipulation and thinking a few plays ahead to figure out how to get things down to that last card.

There's no one step-by-step guide for it since you never know what you're going to draw, but the general idea is to have multiple outs to Archie's (e.g. Ultra Ball for Jirachi for Archie's; Compressor and VS Seeker; Trainer's Mail; Computer Search; etc) and a lot of cards that can thin your hand down to either the Archie's or a VS Seeker. You run very few Supporters to avoid "clogging" your hand with cards you can't play down, and Exeggcute to help you discard the right number of things.

Archie's Blastoise won Worlds and placed very well at this past weekend's Regional events, so nothing I can really say would be more convincing than its actual success in top-level events. It took 6/16 of the Masters Top 8 spots between Houston and AZ, which is an outstanding showing in a format as wide open as we thought Expanded was heading into the weekend.
 
It was a M Rayquaza deck with Empoleon DEX as a add-on. And yes, I stink at thinking a few plays ahead. Is there any way I can improve at this?
 
RunningWithScizors said:
It was a M Rayquaza deck with Empoleon DEX as a add-on. And yes, I stink at thinking a few plays ahead. Is there any way I can improve at this?
Click to expand...


The Blastoise in this deck isnt just an add-on, the whole deck is focused around getting him out turn 1. To practice this, you can use some of the PTCG online simulators to generate hands and try to figure it out. Most of the time it will involve Battle Compressor for Blastoise, Archies and Energy or Egg, playing some pokemon / energy and Ultra Balling for Jirachi to get Archies as your last card in hand.
 
RunningWithScizors said:
Which online simulators might those be? I'm only really familiar with one-on-one sites like PTCGO and the like.
Click to expand...


The PTCGO has a "Test Deck" feature that lets you play against AI, which is good to practice hands. There is also TCGOne but I dont know how that one works, Im sure there is a way to practice a deck as well. Some people also make spreadsheets that give you random hands so that can also work.

Worst case scenario, proxy the deck and practice that way.
 
Last edited:
Blastoise didn't make much of a showing this weekend, presumably because it was so popular last week. It had a difficult Vespiquen matchup, which turned out in huge numbers in Lancaster. It's a great example of "metagaming" and how making the right call can be a huge advantage heading into an event.

Most players have seen versions of this deck that use Articuno ROS 17 and Wailord EX, at least to some degree to counter Night March which was expected to be a bigger player in Expanded than it has been so far. Unfortunately, neither is quite as useful against Vespiquen/Flareon. Vespiquen hits Wailord for Weakness and strips it of its ability to absorb a hit like it can against Night Match. Articuno needs a Muscle Band and 2/3 heads to OHKO a 90 HP Vespiquen, which is tougher to pull off than it is against 30 and 60 HP Night Marchers.

An unexpected card that was used by some players last weekend is Kyogre EX DEX 26, and I think it's worth a look here:

BW5_EN_26.png


There are two notable things about this card that make it intriguing in Expanded right now. First, Dual Splash allows you to target squishy, vulnerable Pokemon for three energy - a reasonable number if Blastoise is on the board. Combee, Eevee FFI, Unown, Joltik, Zubat, Bronzor, Spritzee, Flareon (active), and Oddish (benched) are all knocked out in one shot, and Pokemon like Garbodor, Bronzong, Vespiquen, and Jirachi EX (!) are taken down in two hits. Second, Kyogre EX is weak to Lightning, not Grass like Keldeo EX and Blastoise, giving you a Pokemon that can potentially take a hit from Vespiquen early on while you limit your opponent's options with a Dual Splash (or two).

What do other people think about Kyogre EX in the current Expanded format?
 
Asclepius24 said:
An unexpected card that was used by some players last weekend is Kyogre EX DEX 26, and I think it's worth a look here:

BW5_EN_26.png


There are two notable things about this card that make it intriguing in Expanded right now. First, Dual Splash allows you to target squishy, vulnerable Pokemon for three energy - a reasonable number if Blastoise is on the board. Combee, Eevee FFI, Unown, Joltik, Zubat, Bronzor, Spritzee, Flareon (active), and Oddish (benched) are all knocked out in one shot, and Pokemon like Garbodor, Bronzong, Vespiquen, and Jirachi EX (!) are taken down in two hits. Second, Kyogre EX is weak to Lightning, not Grass like Keldeo EX and Blastoise, giving you a Pokemon that can potentially take a hit from Vespiquen early on while you limit your opponent's options with a Dual Splash (or two).

What do other people think about Kyogre EX in the current Expanded format?
Click to expand...
It's really good.
Especially since you can get Blastoise T1. If you can pull that off, you basically can get yourself two prizes and cripple the opponent's setup in a good many matchups.
I was thinking about what this deck can do about meta stuff, and I arrived at Kyurem-EX PLB.
A banded Kyurem can kill an Yveltal-EX and then do better against the retaliation, or kill a Sceptile-EX without much consequence at all due to the metal weakness.
 
blargh257 said:
It's really good.
Especially since you can get Blastoise T1. If you can pull that off, you basically can get yourself two prizes and cripple the opponent's setup in a good many matchups.
I was thinking about what this deck can do about meta stuff, and I arrived at Kyurem-EX PLB.
A banded Kyurem can kill an Yveltal-EX and then do better against the retaliation, or kill a Sceptile-EX without much consequence at all due to the metal weakness.
Click to expand...
I didn't think about that, as a poor kid who recently moved into an apartment, I can't really afford very many new cards, so deck like archie's stoise that take old cards and creates new strategy makes me a better player than I would be. Getting off topic. That's a pretty good idea, I haven't tested against Vespiquen yet, since no one at my local league plays it and the couple people at other leagues I go to who play it, I never get the time to play them, so in theory, this should be a great addition.
Asclepius24 said:
Blastoise didn't make much of a showing this weekend, presumably because it was so popular last week. It had a difficult Vespiquen matchup, which turned out in huge numbers in Lancaster. It's a great example of "metagaming" and how making the right call can be a huge advantage heading into an event.

Most players have seen versions of this deck that use Articuno ROS 17 and Wailord EX, at least to some degree to counter Night March which was expected to be a bigger player in Expanded than it has been so far. Unfortunately, neither is quite as useful against Vespiquen/Flareon. Vespiquen hits Wailord for Weakness and strips it of its ability to absorb a hit like it can against Night Match. Articuno needs a Muscle Band and 2/3 heads to OHKO a 90 HP Vespiquen, which is tougher to pull off than it is against 30 and 60 HP Night Marchers.

An unexpected card that was used by some players last weekend is Kyogre EX DEX 26, and I think it's worth a look here:

BW5_EN_26.png


There are two notable things about this card that make it intriguing in Expanded right now. First, Dual Splash allows you to target squishy, vulnerable Pokemon for three energy - a reasonable number if Blastoise is on the board. Combee, Eevee FFI, Unown, Joltik, Zubat, Bronzor, Spritzee, Flareon (active), and Oddish (benched) are all knocked out in one shot, and Pokemon like Garbodor, Bronzong, Vespiquen, and Jirachi EX (!) are taken down in two hits. Second, Kyogre EX is weak to Lightning, not Grass like Keldeo EX and Blastoise, giving you a Pokemon that can potentially take a hit from Vespiquen early on while you limit your opponent's options with a Dual Splash (or two).

What do other people think about Kyogre EX in the current Expanded format?
Click to expand...
That's an amazing idea too! being a cheap EX that nobody uses, I should be able to put that into my deck. And to end this all, does anybody have a list that uses Dowsing Machine, because I don't have a Computer Search.
 
Just play-tested the Kyogre and it was awesome! In my list, I teched in a regice, and it is a very tech that I suggest using just to irritate your opponent.
 
is it really necessary to have 2 jiracjis and 2 shaymins? there is to keep in mind that if you fill the bench too fast, you can't get blastoise to the bench, and half the time, you don't even need jirachi. I mean, if you're going to play the deck, play this list or something similar.

Pokémon:11
Keldeo-EX x3
Blastoise x2
Mewtwo-EX x1
Jirachi-EX x1
Shaymin-EX x1
Exeggcute x1
Kyogre-EX-DEX x1
Articuno x1

Trainer: 35
Computer Search x1
Professor Juniper x1
N x1
Archie's Ace in the Hole x2
Lysandre x1
Rough Seas x2
Muscle Band x1
Float Stone x1
Ultra Ball x4
Battle Compressor x4
Superior Energy Retrieval x4
VS Seeker x4
Trainers' Mail x4
Acro Bike x4
Professor's Letter x1

Energy: 11
Water Energy x11

Free Space:3

I feel like this would be a better skeleton list than the one listed. since I have to resort tcg one to test decks, and I can't afford all of this( even though I got deals from kids at school to get 3 shaymins), you guys have to judge whether or not this list is efficient enough, but I can't always get the turn one archie even though I based the list off of Jacob Van Wagner, but this is as good as it gets. free space for another shaymin, a second prof.s letter, or a town map or what? idk, so whatever. against corruption decks like garbodor/ sableye/ bunnelby, I can't win ever. just help me out by telling me how to beat these decks while listing more ways to add consistency.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top