I just invested in Buzzwoles and am hoping it sticks around because it hasn't been out for very long it seems like. Just took it to a league challenge and swept everyone with it with ease. I like Volcanion as a deck when I first started, and Buzzwole feels like Volcanion 2.0. I know it losses Strong energy, and Elixir but I'm sure the other stuff it has has to mean something.
Discussion Buzzwole after Rotation. Still a Contender or Fallen off the Wayside?
- Thread starter Seastrome
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The loss of Max Elixir, Strong Energy, and Float Stone REALLY hurt the deck.
At the very least, if Buzzwole sticks around, we won't see it in the current iteration it's in (Buzzwole / Lycanroc) as it'll be too fragile to function correctly
That said, the card will definitely have some merit as Zoroark GX WILL still be a presence. I can see Buzzwole being used alongside Zoroark as a way to deal with other Zoroark decks. And Zoroark is able to OHKO Dawn Wings Necrozma GX. That and Buzzwole can take out Ultra Necrozma with 3 Energy and a Choice Band.
Unless greater minds pair up Zoroark with something better, I kind of seeing Buzzwole / Zoroark being a thing when rotation happens. That said, I can see it being a tougher deck to pilot.
At the very least, if Buzzwole sticks around, we won't see it in the current iteration it's in (Buzzwole / Lycanroc) as it'll be too fragile to function correctly
That said, the card will definitely have some merit as Zoroark GX WILL still be a presence. I can see Buzzwole being used alongside Zoroark as a way to deal with other Zoroark decks. And Zoroark is able to OHKO Dawn Wings Necrozma GX. That and Buzzwole can take out Ultra Necrozma with 3 Energy and a Choice Band.
Unless greater minds pair up Zoroark with something better, I kind of seeing Buzzwole / Zoroark being a thing when rotation happens. That said, I can see it being a tougher deck to pilot.
I think Buzzwole does indeed lose its luster, but not completely. Buzzwole may simply be run a different way - I envision him becoming more of a tank that hits with Diancie on the Bench and with a Choice Band attached, while utilizing healing mechanisms like Max Potion or Acerola, slowly whittling down opponent's Pokémon until it's time to hit big. I don't think this is a perfect way to use him because it is easily run over by Psychic-types...and I think Malamar's likelihood of becoming extremely popular is likely, as it's a consistent engine with strong GX Pokémon at its disposal.
As @Merovingian stated, however, Zoroark's existence and impact in the future meta (which it undoubtedly will) may be enough to keep Buzzboi relevant. We'll see.
As @Merovingian stated, however, Zoroark's existence and impact in the future meta (which it undoubtedly will) may be enough to keep Buzzboi relevant. We'll see.
I feel like post rotation Lucario GX gets a lot better, whereas Buzzwole get a lot worse.
After rotation I believe Buzzwole will be less popular comparing to what you see in tournaments now, but it will remain a good deck even losing some of the key cards.
Without max elixir the way to accelerate energy for buzzwole is probably by beast ring which can be used when opponent gets 3 or 4 prize cards. That means that more technique is needed for the time to charge up buzzwole and make attacks. It is not as over-power as using max elixir but beast ring still give reasonable replacement after rotation for energy acceleration for more energy to be attached for certain and not limit to charge buzzwole in bench.
It is the same as float stone will be rotating out implying more technique and plan are needed like what to do in next round after putting 160 damage on oppoment's pokemon by buzzwole when float stone if out. But losing float stone will be a challenge for other deck too like Necrozma-Malamar so we will just need to run buzzwole in some other ways. And losing Strong energy could be a pain but with Diancie adding 20 damage and beast energy (which is a prism star), losing strong energy still be okay for buzzwole.
The real problem that may stop people playing buzzwole will be from new set SM7. New stadium card preventing damage to bench and pokemon ability to avoid damage to bench will make buzzwole cannot take advantage of spreading damage by using jet punch. So let see what happen when new set is released in August.
Without max elixir the way to accelerate energy for buzzwole is probably by beast ring which can be used when opponent gets 3 or 4 prize cards. That means that more technique is needed for the time to charge up buzzwole and make attacks. It is not as over-power as using max elixir but beast ring still give reasonable replacement after rotation for energy acceleration for more energy to be attached for certain and not limit to charge buzzwole in bench.
It is the same as float stone will be rotating out implying more technique and plan are needed like what to do in next round after putting 160 damage on oppoment's pokemon by buzzwole when float stone if out. But losing float stone will be a challenge for other deck too like Necrozma-Malamar so we will just need to run buzzwole in some other ways. And losing Strong energy could be a pain but with Diancie adding 20 damage and beast energy (which is a prism star), losing strong energy still be okay for buzzwole.
The real problem that may stop people playing buzzwole will be from new set SM7. New stadium card preventing damage to bench and pokemon ability to avoid damage to bench will make buzzwole cannot take advantage of spreading damage by using jet punch. So let see what happen when new set is released in August.
I would never count out Buzzwole just yet. I'm sure people will find a way to make it work still. It still has Diancie Prism and Beast Ring. I can see Buzzwole starting to go heavy on the Jet Punches and follow up with Beast Ring KOs. Mew FC, Mew EX and Mewtwo Evo are all going to be rotated so there won't be many easy Buzzwole counters left. (Mesprit + Uxie and the upcoming Deoxys could be counters though)
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I think part of the problem with Buzzwole-GX is that it's thriving in a meta where Zoroark-GX is VERY prevalent and it can overpower it. Now we have more players picking up Malamar / Necrozma-GX/Ultra Necrozma-GX that is capable of tangling against Buzzwole and winning. Then throw in the rotation where everything, including Buzzwole-GX, slows down.
I think that the big reason why Buzzwole-GX gets played is because it takes out Zoroark-GX decks efficiently. Sure, Bench damage from Jet Punch is nice, but we are about to enter a format where if you're not OHKOing threats, you're getting OHKO'd yourself (VikaBulu and Malamar / Ultra Necrozma-GX decks, specifically). I have no doubt that Zoroark-GX decks will get played post-rotation, but they won't be top tier. And I think we'll see a direct correlation of Buzzwole-GX being played less often because to this.
The problem at the moment is that there aren't a whole lot of people discussing the future meta. Just we few. We more than likely won't start seeing momentum on this until AT LEAST the US Internats tournament is finished. And even then, we still have well over two and a half months where we are currently standing before the next set becomes corporeal. A LOT of meta shifting can happen within that time frame. But at the same time, any decks that are being built for Worlds format should be taken with a grain of salt.
That said, if you really sit down and look at the cards available from SUM-on (including Celestial Storm), as well as look at what popular decks are available now and what they all lose (or don't lose) to the rotation, you will be surprised at what you find. Some of it is obvious, others not so much. But Ho-oh-GX, as you mentioned, is a good start.
I will say. VikaBulu loses next to nothing to the rotation and should be in contention with other tier-1 decks.
I agree with the above poster's statement that Bulu still will remain good and with Rayquaza dropping in Celestial Storm Vikavolt isn't going anywhere. Lapras/water box is probably also decent. In terms of speculating I feel like if/when Buzzwole falls off Raichu turbo will start seeing an increase in play.
Raichu loses Elixir and Nuzzle Pikachu. I like the card, but it's pretty bad.
Anyway, we're moving into a format where consistency is a very important thing. Losing deck thinners like Sycamore, I think that players will start to play heavy counts of most, if not all of their trainers, and I wouldn't put it past people to play heavy Lele again like at release. Trashalanche is looking really good and Bulu/Malamar are looking awesome.
Buzzwole still has a lot going for it in terms of support, but I'm beginning to think it may end up falling off.
How? Buzzwole has Beast Ring and can still OHKO almost anything in the relevant game. Lucario loses Strong Energy and Regirock(which played a split with Diancie, so don't say that Diancie replaces this) and also can't utilise Beast Energy. Not to mention it's also weak to Psychic.
I think between Acro Bike, playing heavy counts of draw support, and having Tate and Liza to "replace" Float Stones(because it has the option of both draw support, and resetting Knuckle Impact), Buzzwole will either be good/semi-dominant or shrivel up and die.
Also, a little word of advice everyone seems to forget, Instruct Oranguru is still around. Just sayin'.
Buzzwole can still OHKO but it can't do so like it has in the past where people have literally thrown it on the bench, put a float stone on the active and powered it up in one turn. Their game becomes solely dependent on hitting beast rings which inherently makes it worse. While Lucario also is hurt by the loss of float stones and Strong energy it should always remain relevant as it's one energy attachment away from OHKO'ing Zoroark, and Zoroark isn't going anywhere. Thus, although Lucario may be less consistent than a deck like Buzzwole, I still think it will remain relevant which I'm not sure about Buzzwole. (octillery rotating also greatly hurts Buzzwole)
In response to your other points. I think Regirock is a bad play with negatives far outweighing its positives and with Raichu I've been operating on the assumption their is going to be a reprinted nuzzle Pikachu. If not the deck obviously gets worse, but with cards like Menactric that help with acceleration, Xuriktree and beast rings plus a reprinted nuzzle Pikachu the deck should be able to get energy in play, even without Max elixir.
i feel like buzz won't be able to compete with the other two standard dominant Pokemon in the next rotation. Malamar will see more play with the loss of parallel and ability lock plus alter of the Moon is only slightly less consistent than float stone. Also the new shiftry basically covers all of zoroark's issues as it can one shot everything in a buzzrock list WITHOUT choice band. things aren't looking good for mr mosquito.
Buzzwole is still a card with some very nasty power play potential, Lisia gives the card a very consistent way to hit beast energy and diancie t1 which lets you donk any basic. I think you'll need to find new partners, beast box might actually be a thing, but I can't see this card not having at least some role in the game. It will wax and wane with the power of Zoroark, which hurts from losing some key cards but also gains relative to other decks as most of the other good draw abilities and supporters leave the format, and the power of Garbodor and Malamar decks.
While I'm not sure how much elixir has done for Raichu Variants, I will say that there likely will be a nuzzle pika card in the near future
SMP-199 in japan gives us another nuzzle Pikachu
Nuzzle Flip a coin. If heads, your opponent's Active Pokémon is now Paralyzed.
Thunder Jolt This Pokémon does 10 damage to itself.
Raichu has always played Elixir so you can have anywhere near the viability of what Turbo Dark could do. Without Elixir, your opponent could pretty much Guzma sweep your Pikachu with Lele since you can evolve Pikas after you Elixir, but not after you attack with Snuggly Generator. Yeah, Beast Ring and Xurkitree do work pretty well, but Elixirs could set you up from the start.While I'm not sure how much elixir has done for Raichu Variants, I will say that there likely will be a nuzzle pika card in the near future
SMP-199 in japan gives us another nuzzle Pikachu
View attachment 15333
And evidentally I was wrong about Nuzzle Pika, since I'm willing to bet we will get it. I really like Raichu, so I'm going to try and get rainbow rares.
Looking at the baby Buzzwole decks that did really well at Madison, I think they should go in the radar.
They only lose a few things to rotation:
Octillery can be changed to Zoroark
Max Elixir can be subbed with Beast Ring
Float Stone...maybe Escape Board? Not sure
The hardest hit is Strong Energy. This could be subbed with more Fighting Energy or DCE for Zoroark
They only lose a few things to rotation:
Octillery can be changed to Zoroark
Max Elixir can be subbed with Beast Ring
Float Stone...maybe Escape Board? Not sure
The hardest hit is Strong Energy. This could be subbed with more Fighting Energy or DCE for Zoroark
imo, buzzwole, zoro, malamar aren't going anywhere post-rotation. rayquaza, dragonite, and wishiwashi could be in the mix as well, though there are a lot of cards yet to be released which makes things tough to predict
It also doesn't help that right after the rotation hits, we get Dragon Storm a month later.
Wishiwashi and Victini Prism are probably the most interesting things coming out of that set.
