Discussion Card Battle Ep.10: Lucario VS Gengar VS Mewtwo

The Poke Tactics

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Hello guys,welcome to the episode 10 of this CARD BATTLE thread. Today,we will talking about the Pokemon-EXs that they have Megas but they rarely use it. These are Lucario, Gengar, and Mewtwo (Shatter Shot) . What do these three differ?

Lucario-EX - It has three attacks: (1 Fighting) It makes this attack ignores OAP resistance. (2 Fighting) It enables you to draw until 6 cards in your hand,and (3 Fighting) It has 100 damage.

Gengar-EX - It has attack that applies 30 dmg. to the selected opponent's Pokemon, and makes the OAP to get Poisoned and switch Gengar to your bench.

Mewtwo-EX (Shatter Shot) - It has the attacks that: 1.dealt 30 x n to the OAP (n= amt. of Psychic Energy attached to Mewtwo) and; 2. switches damages between Mewtwo and the opponent's active Pokemon.( good if Mewtwo (Shatter Shot) is nearly KO'ed.)

In your opinion, which do you think is your best card?

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So share your opinions with us. We will appreciate your opinions.
 
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I am thinking you shouldn't include Mewtwo-EX at all... or do you follow the Japanese metagame heavily and over there no one is bothering with it? XD

Here we aren't using it because we don't (or only just) got it and the same applies to its Mega Evolution. :rolleyes:

[Sort of] Sticking to the actual head-to-head, honestly it isn't a match-up that would have occurred to me; I probably would have compared Lucario-EX with Landorus-EX as they are both Fighting-Types that rely heavily upon single Energy attacks but with good additional attacks that they still use (just less than the first attacks) and work great with Fighting-Type support.

That brings us to some of the differences between Lucario-EX and Gengar-EX; both rely on Type support and not their Mega Evolutions and each has a single Energy and three Energy attack but that's about it for similarities. Gengar-EX seems to be used mostly (only?) for porter decks (or hit-and-run decks or whatever you want to call them): its focus is on using "Dark Corridor" to do some damage (plus Poison) and then hide itself as best as it can on your Bench by throwing up whatever partner it has that will act as a good blocker. Gengar-EX may hide behind a Safeguard Pokémon like Sigilyph when it will be hard to OHKO, Trevenant (PHF) when the best approach is shutting down your opponent's Items or Wobbuffet (PHF) when blocking Abilities seems best.

Lucario-EX instead focuses on dealing damage fast while it stays up front. It hits for 30 damage that ignores Resistance at a cost of [F]. Strong Energy, Fighting Stadium and Muscle Band can each add +20, so against an opposing Pokémon-EX you can score 70/90/180 damage (Resistant/Neutral/Weak). This means you can use cards like Super Scoop Up to bounce Lucario-EX anytime it gets close to being KOed, even once each turn. Super Scoop Up is of course coin flip based but it means all cards attached to Lucario-EX also return to your hand; if you can afford to use your Ace Spec then Scoop Up Cyclone does the same thing with no coin flip. If you can afford to lose attached cards AZ is also an option. If your opponent doesn't put the hurt on Lucario-EX quickly enough then it can build up to its next two attacks.

Well, short on time so that is about all the analysis I can offer at the moment. I favor Lucario-EX but that is because I've been running it as a part of Landobats for a little while now. Gengar-EX may be better (especially in Standard) but I don't know for sure.
 
I think this new Mewtwo is extremely over-powered. You just use Damage Change and swich damage then knock out the defending Pokemon. Combine it with Silent Lab and no Abilty will block you from using Shatter Shot. Also you can just use Dimension Valley, and its attack cost 1 basic Energy less. Same with Gengar so he can use Night Attack without energy. Then you can also use Escape Rope to bring back Mewtwo then use Gengar's Dark Corridor and bring it up again for even more damage.
 
Hmm... I didn't comment much on the new Mewtwo-EX; probably should fix that. I agree with DeathsFinalFlame that it is overpowered, but that is par for the course with most contemporary cards: I want to the ability to attack first turn when going first restored because I believe attacks that aid in setting up are overall good for the health of the game. Realistically a small amount of damage should be safe first turn but it takes careful testing I can't conduct to determine it, especially with the different damage buffs available first turn, so if the game were to go the direction I think it should go, all new cards (and any older ones being reprinted) would lack attacks that can both do damage and be accessed first turn (even if it takes a combo).

So again, that would mean this new Mewtwo-EX is a problem. Compared to what is currently available, it is actually a nerfed/more-balanced version of the old Mewtwo-EX. As we have someone taking the time to make the case against that, let me run through it quick.

i think this new mewtwo is extreamly over powered you just use damage change and swich damage then knock out the defending pokemon...

Only when Mewtwo-EX survives taking a hit and then attacks something with less than the card's maximum HP (so without HP boosts, something with 160 HP or less). Muscle Band won't add to this damage, though Hypnotoxic Laser/Virbank City Gym will. Remember Damage Change swaps the damage counters between Mewtwo-EX and the opponent's Active, and for a cost of [PPC]. Mewtwo-EX will need a sound investment and probably to combo with a Lysandre to take out something smallish like a Shaymin-EX (ROS) or Jirachi-EX and heal. I'm not saying the attack is useless; a string of small attackers that keeps failing to OHKO Mewtwo-EX could in return be OHKOed while Mewtwo-EX keeps healing itself... but that isn't too likely in the competitive card pool.

In a more balanced metagame, it would be a real concern. In this metagame, we'll need to nail down a combo to power it up in a single turn and/or ensure you survive a shot (like a Focus Sash for Psychic-Types) and/or Damage Swap on a more accessible Pokémon.

...combine it with silent lab and no abilty will block you from useing shatter shot also you can just use demension valley and its attack cost 1 basic energy less same with gangar so he can use night attack without energy then you can also use escape rope to bring back mewtwo then use gangars dark corridor and bring it up again for even more damage

You can't combine it with both Silent Lab and Dimension Valley at the same time; has to be one or the other. Of course Garbodor (DRX) can be on the Bench while Dimension Valley is in play or in some decks you could spam Hex Maniac (or even just use Hex Maniac once or twice but with excellent timing). The thing is... that isn't unique to Mewtwo-EX; currently the only game mechanics that blocks attacks are Abilities and the effects of other attacks, so when Abilities go down, that's the same for everything else. Silent Lab would allow you to bypass Safeguard, but that's true for all Pokémon-EX.

Shatter Shot is a four part crossover between the annuals of the four main X-titles at the time (X-Men, Uncanny X-Men, X-Factor and X-Force) featuring -

Oops, wrong fandom. The "Shatter Shot" attack on the new Mewtwo-EX is a toned down version of the X-Ball attack on the old Mewtwo-EX. It is by no mans bad, but overall it is not as strong. Yes, less expensive because it requires a single [P] to use instead of [CC], but that just makes it less easy to splash and unable to benefit from Dimension Valley (Damage Change still can enjoy the discount). It does 30 damage per [P] Energy attached to Mewtwo-EX as opposed to 20 for any Energy attached to all Active Pokémon. If we get a way to rain down five to eight [P] Energy in a single turn (and without wrecking your own deck), then it will be a problem. For now you'll be doing well to get 90 or more damage out of the attack, and at the cost of making it a target for all the attacks that do have damage that scales with the amount of Energy attached to the opponent's Active (or both Actives, like the old Mewtwo-EX).

Turning this into a dance partner for Gengar-EX has a problem; Mewtwo-EX is not Wailord-EX with an extremely high HP score making it likely to survive, nor is it a blocker with a disruptive Ability protecting it and/or the field as a whole. It also has a fairly easy to exploit Weakness in Expanded play.

Sorry if this seems like I'm picking on your DeathsFinalFlame. I only wish to analyze the card and I am very grateful you are participating! Plus I've been wrong often enough my own post may be refuted either in short order or down the road. ^^'
 
Mewtwo has an extremely playable Mega Evolution. It's far too early to make calls like these considering the set hasn't been released yet.
What Mewtwo? The Photon Wave or the Shatter Shot one? By the way,I was just predicting because the Shatter Shot Mewtwo has awesome attacks.

Hey,guys. Do I miss something on my topic?
 
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What Mewtwo? The Photon Wave or the Shatter Shot one? By the way,I was just predicting because the Shatter Shot Mewtwo has awesome attacks.
Either one. Mega Mewtwo Y really doesn't care which one it Mega Evolves from. Personally, I find Shatter Shot Mewtwo extremely restricting and fairly mediocre. While it may have awesome attacks, getting them to work is key, which is somewhat difficult to do in either standard or expanded because of the fact that psychic as a standalone type is not a viable type, bar Mew-EX and Mewtwo-EX [Next Destinies], but that's really just because Mewtwo attacks for colourless energy and Mew is used a supplimentary attack, copying the attack you are trying to use without getting that Pokémon in danger. Also, the Shatter Shot Mewtwo-EX has one rather large problem: Speed. the Psychic type has no acceleration [though Dimension valley can marginally aid], so charging up Shatter Shot to the point where you are going to reliably KO something like an Yveltal-EX [but even then the format is drifting towards 200+ HP Pokemon. Uggh.], and Dimension Valley is rather pointless here. Damage Change is even worse, considering that most decks in the format, bar Seismitoad, Mega Manectric, and Vileplume, are aiming to knock you out in a single hit anyways, and you need to leave Mewtwo active to take a hit. Even so, 160 damage isn't worth writing home about. So even for [P][P] with dimension valley, it's a pretty poor attack for today's standards.
 
While it may have awesome attacks, getting them to work is key, which is somewhat difficult to do in either standard or expanded because of the fact that psychic as a standalone type is not a viable type, bar Mew-EX and Mewtwo-EX [Next Destinies], but that's really just because Mewtwo attacks for colourless energy and Mew is used a supplimentary attack, copying the attack you are trying to use without getting that Pokémon in danger.

No need to exclude those; it is important to note that a "Type" can be good/bad/whatever while individual members of it can be the complete opposite extreme. There is indeed a certain "synergy" between members of the same Type, at least when there is either a common Energy requirement or Type-related support, but its only a small part of all that goes into making a Pokémon awesome, awful or something in between.

Anyway, there is a piece of Psychic Energy acceleration besides Dimension Valley I'll mention just for the sake of being thorough, but I've never gotten a deck to work around it and people far better than me have also tried and failed; Gardevoir w/Psychic Mirage. The obvious issue is that it is a Stage 2 and not a Fighting or Water-Type so it has to Evolve the old fashioned way, give or take a Rare Candy or Wally. Once in play its Psychic Mirage Ability causes basic Psychic Energy cards to count as [PP] instead of just [P], which is definitely a help for Scatter Shot. Not enough though; you'll still need some luck or else another form of Energy acceleration to really take advantage of it. I suppose if someone wants to get really kooky, they could try Milotic (FLF). Though horribly clunky the two together could result in a Scattor Shot with an effective (not actual) [PPPPPP] attached, and that is before any manual Energy attachments.

I also think you're being a bit hard on Damage Change; it is the kind of attack that makes me want to avoid binary "good/bad" labels for attacks. As you pointed out, it isn't going to work as your main strategy because it is too hard to make sure you are getting a good enough damage yield; some decks will OHKO you, others will have staggered hits, and as you switch the damage counters between the two Actives (I did read that correctly, didn't I?) you need to hit something with a lot less damage on it than Mewtwo-EX (and also preferably a lot less HP) for it to do any good. It just isn't good enough to carry the card on its own; either its being used to Mega Evolve or it isn't seeing play.
 
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