Checking Viability, Affordability & Versatility to Decide if to Play

Claire Redfield

Let Me Live
Member
Hi there! The whole Raccoon City incident made me think, "Hey, you know what would be awesome? If I could capture, train, and use these bio-weapon mutants in standardized battles with other opponents!" So the next step is Pokemon. :D

I've seen the show, some of it. I remember when the stuff got big over here. It always seemed fun enough. The card game looks interesting, and might make a nice break from Magic, which I play pretty regularly. Some of my questions will use Magic-based comparisons for ease of understanding.

So! Onto the questions.

1) Are theme decks viable? In Magic, I play tribal (built around one creature type) decks almost exclusively, and if not tribal then something with a tight theme and focus. I want the deck to tell a story, not just be a random collection of creatures and things that would never work together or are only there because they're the best. I like a good concept and a strong theme.

For example, I love dinosaurs and prehistoric beasts. Would a Fossil Pokemon deck be a viable build? I know when I looked into this game before most people said not to do it, but then some Fossil-related stuff has come out since then. I'd love to use Tyrantrum, Aerodactyl, and Kabutops, among others, to bash my foes!

But I'd also like to make stuff like Water-based Pokemon decks, Dragon-based, or ferocious predator decks, or that kind of thing. Is this doable?

As an aside, I did once seriously look into getting into Pokemon. I joined the http://google.com/ forum and asked about stuff like this. I was told that the game "isn't like Magic, where only certain decks win competitive play." Then everyone proceeded to shut down any possible theme or deck based on favorite creature types or concepts, and suggest like the same 2 or 3 Pokemon that were big at the time (Darkrai was one, I think). And they all suggested the same Trainer cards and things. Without fail. So in essence, they sold me off of the game because it was in fact more limited than Magic, where at the last you can have different deck types win (I have a mill deck that runs no creatures and wins), even if they all embody the basic archetypes: control, aggro, combo, etc.

2) What is the easiest/most affordable way to get into the game if you want to build some strong decks and play them around with friends and maybe local game shops? I mean, is there a particular set that works better? Do you have to have the latest and greatest EX or BREAK or whatever everything is to win? Are there certain non-Pokemon cards that are absolute must-haves in every deck?

3) In the face of stuff like the EX cards, are regular old Pokemon still worth running anymore?

4) If the answers to the above questions pan out, would anyone care to help me put together a Fossil Pokemon deck to start with? I have looked around for deck lists but they seem few and far between.

Thanks for your time!
 
Greetings @Claire Redfield and welcome back to Pokemon. Although I'm not a MTG player (who can draw upon that experience , similarities, etc.) too, I am a long-time Pokemon player and will try to address your questions. I'm sure other members of the PokeBeach community will respond as well.

1) Are theme decks viable?
Theme decks are "viable" to a certain degree. Theme decks are usually referred to as "starter" decks. They will contain a legal, 60-card deck (most likely for the Standard game format) primarily for those players starting to learn the game. There are a few different theme decks available now and each box will list the cards contained therein. In addition, the package will contain a game rules sheet, damage counters, poison and burn markers. The deck itself will NOT be very competitive. But, these sometimes will contain a base deck that you enhance with other better cards.

Given your experience, I would suggest first starting with perusing the various card scans from each set. You can find each set on the PokeBeach main webpage by hovering your mouse pointer over the "TCG" button. Note that there are 2 competitive game formats currently: Expanded and Standard. Essentially, the Standard game format just limits a decks to a fewer number of card sets that can be used in the construction of a deck; whereas the Expanded format includes a much larger number of card sets.

After identifying some Pokemon you like, checkout the Deck Garage and Game Strategy Forums for decks and discussions that are centered around your chosen Pokemon. Join a local Pokemon League, even to play a theme deck. This will be a good way to learn the basic game mechanics and stat to build your own, local network of Pokemon players.

There is also at least 1 website where you can build and play-test any deck for free. After you determine what deck(s) you actually want, then invest in purchasing the needed cards to enhance your theme deck and/or build completely new deck(s).


2) What is the easiest/most affordable way to get into the game if you want to build some strong decks and play them around with friends and maybe local game shops? I mean, is there a particular set that works better? Do you have to have the latest and greatest EX or BREAK or whatever everything is to win? Are there certain non-Pokemon cards that are absolute must-haves in every deck?
IMO, no 1 set will provide ALL the cards needed to build a strong, competitive deck. The construction of a great deck will require reviewing cards from different sets and then select the cards you need/want for that deck. An alternative method to the selection process would be to review tournament results to see which decks the top players won with or even review the PokeBeach's TCG Competitive Strategy / Metagame Deck Discusion Forum for some discussions regarding deck tiers.

3) In the face of stuff like the EX cards, are regular old Pokemon still worth running anymore?
Interestingly enough, there are at least 2, non-EX Pokemon decks (Vespiquen variants and Trevenant variants) that are very strong and competitive today. EX Pokemon are great, but not required to win big tournaments.

Note that the tournament game format (Standard or Expanded) will allow you to utilize different mixes of cards. Having that "right" mix, playing that deck mix, having good matchups, and some "luck" will win tournaments, IMO.

4) If the answers to the above questions pan out, would anyone care to help me put together a Fossil Pokemon deck to start with? I have looked around for deck lists but they seem few and far between.
Which particular Fossil-based Pokemon are you interested in?

 
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Theme decks are "viable" to a certain degree. Theme decks are usually referred to as "starter" decks. They will contain a legal, 60-card deck (most likely for the Standard game format) primarily for those players starting to learn the game. There are a few different theme decks available now and each box will list the cards contained therein. In addition, the package will contain a game rules sheet, damage counters, poison and burn markers. The deck itself will NOT be very competitive. But, these sometimes will contain a base deck that you enhance with other better cards.


Is it possible to build a competitive themed deck? For example, my Fossil Pokemon idea, or if I wanted to build one around Dragon-type Pokemon?

Given your experience, I would suggest first starting with perusing the various card scans from each set. You can find each set on the PokeBeach main webpage by hovering your mouse pointer over the "TCG" button. Note that there are 2 competitive game formats currently: Expanded and Standard. Essentially, the Standard game format just limits a decks to a fewer number of card sets that can be used in the construction of a deck; whereas the Expanded format includes a much larger number of card sets.

After identifying some Pokemon you like, checkout the Deck Garage and Game Strategy Forums for decks and discussions that are centered around your chosen Pokemon. Join a local Pokemon League, even to play a theme deck. This will be a good way to learn the basic game mechanics and stat to build your own, local network of Pokemon players.

There is also at least 1 website where you can build and play-test any deck for free. After you determine what deck(s) you actually want, then invest in purchasing the needed cards to enhance your theme deck and/or build completely new deck(s).

I wish I knew someone who had cards IRL so we could try out the game. But there are a few places to play online, at least: OCTGN, the Pokemon online stuff, etc.

But is the competitive scene not then limited to a few deck types with little variation? That was one of the things I was worried about most.

Which particular Fossil-based Pokemon are you interested in?

Well, let's see! My favorite animal ever was a tyrannosaurus, so definitely Tyrunt/Tyrantrum. I think Kabutops and Aerodactyl are cool, too. I know there were other Fossil Pokemon like Omanyte. I just love prehistoric stuff, and on top of that the concept of restoring these ancient Pokemon from fossils is just too cool. So, basically, every and all Fossil Pokemon!

Also, I just happen to see the following discussion threads in this Forum and they may be of interest to you:

"What Is The Best Theme Deck?"

http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/threads/what-is-the-best-theme-deck.118624/

"Questions Before Transitioning from Theme Decks to Competitive"
http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/thr...oning-from-theme-decks-to-competitive.128053/

Thank you! I will check those out. And I do intend to consult on the forums when I try to build a competitive deck, like say a Fossil-based deck that could actually win.
 
Fossil decks seem to be inherently "slow" in comparison to top tier decks. Yes, it is possible to build a Fossil-based deck, but I doubt if it would be competitive, IMO. But, still try it; you might just surprised the other players and yourself with good results. Build and test it online.

Now there are a few Dragon-type decks that are quite competitive and they are based around Rayquaza EX. For some example lists and discussions, check the Deck Garage and Competitive Play Forums.

Do check the official Pokemon website where you can search for a league in your area: https://www.pokemon.com/us/play-pokemon/pokemon-events/find-an-event/ A lot of people test their decks (competitive, semi-competitive, etc.) online, as well as IRL. Since most of my Poke pals don't live close, we play and discuss decks online. I play a variety of decks online even if it is not any of "my" main decks. This gives me a chance to view and operate the deck first-hand, as well as determine how to counter it should I pla against a simila deck in an upcoming tournament.

Pokemon like Tyrantrum, Aerodactyl, Omanyte have "rotated out" and are no longer legal in the Expanded nor Standard deck formats. So, those cards can not be used in current sanctioned, premier tournaments. However, there is an "Unlimited" format in which one can used any card from any set. There may be no live tournaments where you can use suc cards, but there may be some online Unlimited format games, if not tournaments.
 
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Pokemon like Tyrantrum, Aerodactyl, Omanyte have "rotated out" and are no longer legal in the Expanded nor Standard deck formats. So, those cards can not be used in current sanctioned, premier tournaments. However, there is an "Unlimited" format in which one can used any card from any set. There may be no live tournaments where you can use suc cards, but there may be some online Unlimited format games, if not tournaments.
Actually, that's not quite true. In standard and expanded format there are many fossil Pokemon, with varying viability. Good bases for rouge decks would be Furious Fists Tyrantrum and Aurorus, Dark Explorers Aerodactyl, Noble Victories Archeops, Mega Aerodactyl EX and the most competitive of them Tyrantrum EX. The May's set will also bring some new tools for fossils to play with, so you might be interested in that. The problem with the non-ex ones is the fact that their relatively hard to even get out into play with the whole fossil mechanic, but there are some ways around that.

About your concerns regarding the couple most prominent cards that you can't run a deck without, they're partially true. There are some prominent trainer cards that are very hard to play without, like Professor Sycamore or other draw cards, but when it comes to Pokemon themselves and the decks, albeit there is a better/worse distinction, both formats are so varied you can go with literally anything and still get a respectable result, as long as it's not too zany of an idea(Like relying only on evolving basics, or something).
 
Actually, that's not quite true. In standard and expanded format there are many fossil Pokemon, with varying viability. Good bases for rogue decks would be Furious Fists Tyrantrum and Aurorus, Dark Explorers Aerodactyl, Noble Victories Archeops, Mega Aerodactyl EX and the most competitive of them Tyrantrum EX. The May's set will also bring some new tools for fossils to play with, so you might be interested in that. The problem with the non-ex ones is the fact that their relatively hard to even get out into play with the whole fossil mechanic, but there are some ways around that.

Apologies @Claire Redfield if your reference to such Fossil Pokemon referenced above pertain to the "current" group of Fossil Pokemon. When I first read your post regarding Omanyte, Areodactyl, etc. I immediately thought back to those years long ago when the Fossil set was released and indeed those particular Pokemon have rotated out of Standard and Expanded formats tournaments play. They would be viable only for any Unlimited game play.

 
2) What is the easiest/most affordable way to get into the game if you want to build some strong decks and play them around with friends and maybe local game shops? I mean, is there a particular set that works better? Do you have to have the latest and greatest EX or BREAK or whatever everything is to win? Are there certain non-Pokemon cards that are absolute must-haves in every deck?

There is a kit known as a Battle Arena Deck, which contains about 120 cards that are, in most cases, are deck staples. Otherwise, if you're looking at getting into competitive, you'll have to find a lot more singles.

Yes, there are you non-Pokemon staple cards since they are quite powerful and help game setup a lot. You can generally find these by comparing multiple decklists, however your typical list will nearly always contain Professor Sycamore/Juniper, Shauna/N, VS Seeker, Lysandre, Ultra Ball and Muscle Band (if your aim to KO your opponent to get prizes). These don't drag down versatility, however, since the game has a variety of techs that can personalise your decklist, while there are a wide variety of different archetypes you can explore. Anyways, the other members are doing a great job in regards to the fossil deck.
 
Hi there!

Hello. I just barely know how to play Magic: the Gathering (meaning at one time I almost got into it, did not, but did play a demo of it on the computer a lot =P). Not much I can relate to its rules or formats, save where others have told me: for example, I believe Magic: the Gathering has several formats in common or at least similar to the Pokémon TCG.

First things first, the Pokémon TCG is in a weird place right now, and has been for quite some time. That means I am going to seem like either the oddball or sourpuss by suggesting you only get into it if you are comfortable with typical modern TCGs. My experience is that modern TCGs are heavy on filler and elements of chance. Sometimes "fun" filler that does interesting things but has little hope of being competitive (and may not have been intended as filler). Some of it glorified filler, where cards are reprinted with alternate art and/or special treatments (actually okay with this sort of filler). Last is the plain filler, where it looks like someone just popped open a ready made card template, inserted "safe" values for Energy costs, attack damage and effect text (if there is any effect text at all), then added a name and picture based on whatever was available. This means booster packs are lottery ticket like nature. Especially once you already have a decent chunk of a set, booster pulls will be very hit or miss. "Hit" means you pull one of the trade worthy cards or few cards you actually want, "miss" being the many bits of filler you won't need and/or cannot easily trade away to recoup some of your investment.

Next is the element of chance. This is a TCG; without radically deviating from norm there will be elements of "luck", like luck of the draw from a sufficiently randomized deck. This is not what concerns me. What does are the number of cards that increase the amount of luck past the base line. There are many potent effects, for example, that are on "tails fails" cards. There is no cost to use these cards, other than if you flip tails they will do nothing. With the raw draw/search power of Pokémon and potent effects some of these cards possess, it can really stink when victory boils down to the coin flip. For some of us, it means winning isn't as sweet and defeat is extra bitter, because it all came down to a coin flip. There are a decent amount of hand disruption cards as well, and this makes long term planning difficult. Some can shrink your hand significantly, and the short version is that even if you take care to minimize how much this affects you, it will still affect you.

Several skilled players think I am an idiot for letting such things bother me; if you happen to be amazingly skilled, especially when playing less skilled opponents, you can minimize your vulnerability to such things but for me, at all levels of play it is bothersome.

One last bit of general information: you are approaching the game when the Constructed Formats are "mature", so things are relatively diverse. I am uncertain, but whether the competitive metagame is the Top 20% or Top 10% of the actual card pool, by now there is enough happening that you cannot be completely certain about what you will face on a round by round basis. You do expect to encounter certain decks at events.

If you are comfortable with this, then welcome to the Pokémon! I'll get to your questions in a later post, because this one is stupid long already. ^^'
 
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