Discussion Could Blastoise Make a Comeback?

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pokedan24

Aspiring Trainer
Member
With Dive Ball giving water Pokemon a search item that's not ultra ball, the rotation of level ball should no longer be an issue for Blastoise. The toad is still a problem, but with the inclusion of something like Mewtwo EX (or even a toad of your own), you can go toe to toe while not deviating from your strategy too much.

I think Archie also deserves a mention. Yes, it's a situational card, and not one I'd build a deck around, but as a one of, it's a nice additional trick at your disposal.
 
That's actually really intriguing. I just finally built up the nerve to sell off my black kyurem deck, but this could make it worth revisiting. I wish I had thought of this four days ago. Maybe even rough seas to get rid of fairy garden?
 
I recently vs'd a Dive Ball/Rare Candy/Skyla AT Swampert deck, and it set up extremely quickly for a Stage 2. Heck, my opponent managed to get 3 Swamperts out! Basically, the deck could probably make a comeback... at least until the next format.
 
Simply put : No. Blastoise might see occasional play, but it be merely a shred of its former self. Blastoise needed Tropical Beach to be consistent and relies heavily on items to set up. Seismitoad EX shuts down most Stage 2 decks, but especially Blastoise because of how many items it needs to function (superior energy retrieval, ultra ball/heavy ball/dive ball, rare candy). This is coupled by the fact that Black Kyurem, the decks main attacker, just isn't worth it anymore. The reason the deck worked so well was because it could hit for 200 every turn, which almost always an ensured KO. Now, with so many Mega EXs, 200 is simply not enough. All in all, there's just way to much working against Blastoise right now for it to ever "comeback."
 
I do see Blastoise decks making a come back but I dont see them top tier material. Unless parring Blastoise with Primal Kyogre EX there are not very many Water pokemon that can hit big numbers. Water decks have alot going for them with all of the support they got from Primal Clash though so a blastoise now and then will be good, The biggest problem the deck will face is the grass Weakness throughout many water pokemon.
 
thood said:
Simply put : No. Blastoise might see occasional play, but it be merely a shred of its former self. Blastoise needed Tropical Beach to be consistent and relies heavily on items to set up. Seismitoad EX shuts down most Stage 2 decks, but especially Blastoise because of how many items it needs to function (superior energy retrieval, ultra ball/heavy ball/dive ball, rare candy). This is coupled by the fact that Black Kyurem, the decks main attacker, just isn't worth it anymore. The reason the deck worked so well was because it could hit for 200 every turn, which almost always an ensured KO. Now, with so many Mega EXs, 200 is simply not enough. All in all, there's just way to much working against Blastoise right now for it to ever "comeback."
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wow. i hear this so many times and it's the lamest excuse ever. The reason people think Blastoise needs beach so much is because of the inclusion of Black Kyurem EX and the lightning cards. If you are not running a Black Kyurem EX deck, why use beach? especially when youre running an energy heavy deck. the two worst matchups blastoise has in this format are Virizion/Genesect (which it's not going to beat anyways), and Y-bird which punishes the energy drops. When playing Yveltal, you can use battle compressor/ SER to overload your keldeo ex's to get KO's and jump out in front first that way they have to play catch up, and even if they evil ball you, you have the SER to get your stuff back. Toad matchup sucks, but its not unwinnable if you burn through as many dive balls as you can turn one. Also, let me just say that as long as toad exists, if youre not playing wartortles, you're stupid, making a bad decision. yes, the quaking punch sucks, but at least you will be healing with rough seas and if you are smart enough to use lysandre/vs seeker you can have some real fun against that deck imo. Either way, the problem doesnt lie in blastoise itself. The problem lies in blastoise players thinking keldeo is just gonna wreck and mismanaging their bench. A well-built, well-played blastoise deck can contend with and beat anything in the format. I would shy away from Black Ballista for the time being however, because its not gonna OHKO the most played Megas and if you get your band popped, youre screwed.
 
Neil Klima said:
thood said:
Simply put : No. Blastoise might see occasional play, but it be merely a shred of its former self. Blastoise needed Tropical Beach to be consistent and relies heavily on items to set up. Seismitoad EX shuts down most Stage 2 decks, but especially Blastoise because of how many items it needs to function (superior energy retrieval, ultra ball/heavy ball/dive ball, rare candy). This is coupled by the fact that Black Kyurem, the decks main attacker, just isn't worth it anymore. The reason the deck worked so well was because it could hit for 200 every turn, which almost always an ensured KO. Now, with so many Mega EXs, 200 is simply not enough. All in all, there's just way to much working against Blastoise right now for it to ever "comeback."
Click to expand...

wow. i hear this so many times and it's the lamest excuse ever. The reason people think Blastoise needs beach so much is because of the inclusion of Black Kyurem EX and the lightning cards. If you are not running a Black Kyurem EX deck, why use beach? especially when youre running an energy heavy deck. the two worst matchups blastoise has in this format are Virizion/Genesect (which it's not going to beat anyways), and Y-bird which punishes the energy drops. When playing Yveltal, you can use battle compressor/ SER to overload your keldeo ex's to get KO's and jump out in front first that way they have to play catch up, and even if they evil ball you, you have the SER to get your stuff back. Toad matchup sucks, but its not unwinnable if you burn through as many dive balls as you can turn one. Also, let me just say that as long as toad exists, if youre not playing wartortles, you're stupid, making a bad decision. yes, the quaking punch sucks, but at least you will be healing with rough seas and if you are smart enough to use lysandre/vs seeker you can have some real fun against that deck imo. Either way, the problem doesnt lie in blastoise itself. The problem lies in blastoise players thinking keldeo is just gonna wreck and mismanaging their bench. A well-built, well-played blastoise deck can contend with and beat anything in the format. I would shy away from Black Ballista for the time being however, because its not gonna OHKO the most played Megas and if you get your band popped, youre screwed.
Click to expand...

First off, Beach wasn't used so much for Black Kyurem EX as much as it was for getting as many Squirtles out T1 to try and ensure you get a T2 Blastoise. If you're playing this deck, and you don't get a T2 Blastoise, it's already an uphill battle. Also, Seismitoad completely destroys this deck. There is no maybe. Once the item lock begins, Blastoise cannot do ANYTHING. Blastoise is extremely reliant on items to perform. If you want to try and play this deck, be my guest, just understand that this deck is nowhere near it's former self. I certainly don't expect this deck to win any States or Nats. I'd honestly be shocked to see it win a Cities.
 
Thood you act like every deck playes Seismitoad EX and item locks, you are wrong there. Many people are playing fairy builds and yveltal builds and ect. not very many people are playing builds based on seismitoad EX right now. I think Blastoise decks could be as good if not better then it use to be. What has the deck actually lost, compared to what it has gained. Trobical beach was an overated card when it was in the format and the rotation of the card does not hurt blastoise decks
 
Blastoise, in fact, could benefit from Toad: why don't you run it yourself? I find it very useful in my casual play area in my Blastoise deck - it has won me games...
 
Neil Klima said:
thood said:
Simply put : No. Blastoise might see occasional play, but it be merely a shred of its former self. Blastoise needed Tropical Beach to be consistent and relies heavily on items to set up. Seismitoad EX shuts down most Stage 2 decks, but especially Blastoise because of how many items it needs to function (superior energy retrieval, ultra ball/heavy ball/dive ball, rare candy). This is coupled by the fact that Black Kyurem, the decks main attacker, just isn't worth it anymore. The reason the deck worked so well was because it could hit for 200 every turn, which almost always an ensured KO. Now, with so many Mega EXs, 200 is simply not enough. All in all, there's just way to much working against Blastoise right now for it to ever "comeback."
Click to expand...

wow. i hear this so many times and it's the lamest excuse ever. The reason people think Blastoise needs beach so much is because of the inclusion of Black Kyurem EX and the lightning cards. If you are not running a Black Kyurem EX deck, why use beach? especially when youre running an energy heavy deck. the two worst matchups blastoise has in this format are Virizion/Genesect (which it's not going to beat anyways), and Y-bird which punishes the energy drops. When playing Yveltal, you can use battle compressor/ SER to overload your keldeo ex's to get KO's and jump out in front first that way they have to play catch up, and even if they evil ball you, you have the SER to get your stuff back. Toad matchup sucks, but its not unwinnable if you burn through as many dive balls as you can turn one. Also, let me just say that as long as toad exists, if youre not playing wartortles, you're stupid, making a bad decision. yes, the quaking punch sucks, but at least you will be healing with rough seas and if you are smart enough to use lysandre/vs seeker you can have some real fun against that deck imo. Either way, the problem doesnt lie in blastoise itself. The problem lies in blastoise players thinking keldeo is just gonna wreck and mismanaging their bench. A well-built, well-played blastoise deck can contend with and beat anything in the format. I would shy away from Black Ballista for the time being however, because its not gonna OHKO the most played Megas and if you get your band popped, youre screwed.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Black Kyurem isn't the end all or be all for water decks. In fact, I think it's a little too clunky because of the odd energy cost. I'd rather run DCE and cards like Mewtwo EX and Kyurem EX (PLB). They can deal with the toad while still dishing out big damage to a lot of other things. For non EX attackers, there's Kyurem PLF and Kyurem LT. I also like the idea of using the toad. Grenade Hammer could be useful in dealing big damage while powering up outrage attacks.

And I almost forgot about Keldeo EX.
 
Another thing, Squirtle from PLB can paralyze on a coin flip. It's not much, but in a pinch, it could break the toad lock.
 
Ironman131 said:
Thood you act like every deck playes Seismitoad EX and item locks, you are wrong there. Many people are playing fairy builds and yveltal builds and ect. not very many people are playing builds based on seismitoad EX right now. I think Blastoise decks could be as good if not better then it use to be. What has the deck actually lost, compared to what it has gained. Trobical beach was an overated card when it was in the format and the rotation of the card does not hurt blastoise decks
Click to expand...

Except toad is still a deck lol so you auto lose to that (assume 1 game per 6-7 round tourney)
And then 90% lose when you don't get T2 Stoise. I mean anyone can say any deck can perform well under exact conditions but at this point with regionals rolling around and then Nats it's not theory mon time, you have to put up or shut up and Blast doesn't do that.
 
AlexanderTheAwesome said:
Ironman131 said:
Thood you act like every deck playes Seismitoad EX and item locks, you are wrong there. Many people are playing fairy builds and yveltal builds and ect. not very many people are playing builds based on seismitoad EX right now. I think Blastoise decks could be as good if not better then it use to be. What has the deck actually lost, compared to what it has gained. Trobical beach was an overated card when it was in the format and the rotation of the card does not hurt blastoise decks
Click to expand...

Except toad is still a deck lol so you auto lose to that (assume 1 game per 6-7 round tourney)
And then 90% lose when you don't get T2 Stoise. I mean anyone can say any deck can perform well under exact conditions but at this point with regionals rolling around and then Nats it's not theory mon time, you have to put up or shut up and Blast doesn't do that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this guy is right. It's not that Blastoise isn't a good deck that has potential, it's the fact that there's too much going against it right now. It already suffers from slow starts and consistency issues just because it's a Stage 2 deck. Toad is no help to it, especially since toad is so splashable. This deck has horrid matchups against VirGen and Yveltal, the two most popular decks. It does however have an excellent edge over donphan, and the Landorus matchup is about 50/50, unless Landorus also runs Toad, in which case it's around a 30/70. I can see Blastoise having a nice surprise factor and it also does good against Donphan, but it loses against the top tier decks that consistently place in the top 8, which means Blastoise will struggle to win any major tournies.
 
thood said:
AlexanderTheAwesome said:
Except toad is still a deck lol so you auto lose to that (assume 1 game per 6-7 round tourney)
And then 90% lose when you don't get T2 Stoise. I mean anyone can say any deck can perform well under exact conditions but at this point with regionals rolling around and then Nats it's not theory mon time, you have to put up or shut up and Blast doesn't do that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this guy is right. It's not that Blastoise isn't a good deck that has potential, it's the fact that there's too much going against it right now. It already suffers from slow starts and consistency issues just because it's a Stage 2 deck. Toad is no help to it, especially since toad is so splashable. This deck has horrid matchups against VirGen and Yveltal, the two most popular decks. It does however have an excellent edge over donphan, and the Landorus matchup is about 50/50, unless Landorus also runs Toad, in which case it's around a 30/70. I can see Blastoise having a nice surprise factor and it also does good against Donphan, but it loses against the top tier decks that consistently place in the top 8, which means Blastoise will struggle to win any major tournies.
Click to expand...

When I used a Blastoise variant in my casual (no-meta) tournament, I came 3rd/4th with a super-rogue version (Blastoise-EX, Blastoise, Keldeo-EX, Seismitoad-EX) and lost my last battle due to stating with two squirtle vs a Manetric/Yveltal deck.
 
I know this isn't Blastoise, but I've been using Greninja, which runs a similar trainer build. It's not that very difficult to get out a Turn 2 Greninja, and often have 3 set up by turn 4. Max out your Skyla, Dive Ball and Rare Candy, so if you start with 2 of the 3, you have everything you need. Keep at least two Frogadiers (Wartortles) in the deck. Acro Bike might even help as well. The real question is what attacker Blastoise would use. Kyogre EX/Primal Kyogre EX? Kyurem EX? Just use Keldeo EX to attack? I'll leave that up to you to decide.
 
I'm testing a version with 3 Kyurem EX (Plasma Blast), 2 Keldeo EX, 1 Mewtwo EX, and 1 Kyurem PLF. I use max dive ball and 3 bicycles to ensure a good set up.
 
The first big tournamnet that Blastoise could make its come back would be the Florida tournamnet. Seismitoad EX isnt played in every deck, even in the decks that do play seismitoad EX you Have Mewtwo EX that can easily out muscle a seismitoad EX. And as Crul Bear poitned out a turn two water evolution is not that unlikley with all of the support that water decks have. And I never said a Blastoise deck would be top tier I actually said they wouldnt be top tier. I did also say they would be better now then they were before. With current pokemon a original blastoise deck with or with out trobical beach would not be top tier.
 
I am a player of Blastoise/ Keldeo EX / Black Kyurem EX, and personally, the deck runs great against the most decks in the area, VirGen is the only one that made some real problems, cause the natural weakness, but i think, that weakness police is a card that may be put in the decklist to solve this situation.

All of you says that toad is the Blastoise deck killer, but your are wrong. Its all about that make a little changes in the decklist to coexist with the toad and do the deck more playable, example, including a trevor (Promo XY) to search some pokemon when you get block the item cards, includes a wartortle, to evolve squirtle whitout the use of rare candy, includes several Xerosics to remove the double colorless energys, and delay the oponent game.

One of my teammates has a Slurpuff/Seismitoad EX deck, and is not like i can do nothing when i play against him, the duels are pretty tight.

Everything is keep trying and make the deck playable in the worst conditions.

PD: sorry about my english
 
Pokemon:

3-1-3 Blastoise
3 Keldeo EX
2 Black Kyurem EX (Ballista)
1-1 Electrode / Delphox XY

Trainers

Supporters

4 Juniper
2 N
3 Skyla
2 Lyssandre
1 Xerosic
1 Trevor
1 Colress
2 Profesor Birch
1 Teammates

Item

3 Rare Candy
2 Dive Ball
1 Ultra ball
3 SER
1 ER
2 Letter
2 VS Seeker
1 Megaphone

Stadium

2 Rough Seas

Energys

10 Water
2 Lightning
 
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