Does anyone actually believe Raticate BREAK + Poison be a good deck? Or is this all a joke/meme deck?
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Discussion Could Nihilego GX/Raticate BREAK actually be a good deck?
- Thread starter Registeel379
- Start date
I think it could be good if Raticate had more HP. 110 for essentially a Stage 2 is pathetic. We have Aspertia City Gym in Expanded but that's about it
Allow me to add the old codger's perspective on things:
Say hello to Weezing (EX: Deoxys 51/106), the star of "Liability" decks. Yeah, this was about a decade ago, but it used the same basic premise. Liability decks weren't a raging success, but they were considered competitively viable. I seem to recall someone using one in the Grinder (the last chance qualifying tournament that used to occur immediately before the World Championships), which usually required going 8-0. You'll notice how Weezing places enough damage counters on itself to result in a self-KO? Sometimes this deck had a way around this, but mostly, it just rolled with it, with Liability being used in conjunction with something else for a pseudo-OHKO, promoting something that could afford to take a hit the next turn, then using Liability again the next turn, etc.
Relevance? Raticate BREAK does suffer, but because it takes so long to hit the field. 110 HP for a pseudo-Stage 2 is pathetic, but in this case, it's irrelevant. This kind of deck isn't supposed to be some broken nonsense that OHKO's anything and actually justifies people calling for bans. If this deck ends up working, it will be because players skillfully stream Raticate BREAK while also ensuring each use of the combo scores a OHKO on an opponent's most important targets. Preferably on Pokémon-EX/GX so that you simply win due to a favorable Prize trade.
If it can't do that, then its just a fun deck. If it can do it well, then it has a shot at becoming a competitive deck.
Allow me to add the old codger's perspective on things:
Say hello to Weezing (EX: Deoxys 51/106), the star of "Liability" decks. Yeah, this was about a decade ago, but it used the same basic premise. Liability decks weren't a raging success, but they were considered competitively viable. I seem to recall someone using one in the Grinder (the last chance qualifying tournament that used to occur immediately before the World Championships), which usually required going 8-0. You'll notice how Weezing places enough damage counters on itself to result in a self-KO? Sometimes this deck had a way around this, but mostly, it just rolled with it, with Liability being used in conjunction with something else for a pseudo-OHKO, promoting something that could afford to take a hit the next turn, then using Liability again the next turn, etc.
Relevance? Raticate BREAK does suffer, but because it takes so long to hit the field. 110 HP for a pseudo-Stage 2 is pathetic, but in this case, it's irrelevant. This kind of deck isn't supposed to be some broken nonsense that OHKO's anything and actually justifies people calling for bans. If this deck ends up working, it will be because players skillfully stream Raticate BREAK while also ensuring each use of the combo scores a OHKO on an opponent's most important targets. Preferably on Pokémon-EX/GX so that you simply win due to a favorable Prize trade.
If it can't do that, then its just a fun deck. If it can do it well, then it has a shot at becoming a competitive deck.
Thanks, guys.
I think the concept is interesting, but it does end up taking a long time to set up and 30/40HP on a basic is easily sniped if you can't get Raticate BREAK out quick enough. And yes 110HP is ridiculously dreadful, and in this case Bodybuilding Dumbbells can't be used as it's technically not a Stage 1.
If only they'd made tools for BREAK's...
Plus the deck's going out of standard soon so there's not really much point in spending any money on it.
Maybe a PTCGO mission, Eh?
Don't forget, you have to worry about more than sniping in Standard, once again. Pheromosa-GX has Fast Raid, allowing her to attack T1. I don't know if decks built around donk tactics will actually prove competitive, but with Nihilego-GX, Seviper (BUS), and a way to deal with your own Confusion/Poison, the deck can try to overwhelm those with smaller attackers and/or small, Evolving Basics. Not a huge deal, but it seems to disproportionately affect Rattata as opposed to, say, Ralts.
I am somewhat sad that BREAK Evolutions ended up an even smaller flash in the pan than I expected. It isn't likely to be a long-term mechanic because of the main source material for the TCG, the video games, will go back and give something an Evolution (sometimes even a new lower Stage) often enough. So... what happens when something with a BREAK Evolution suddenly gets a proper Evolved Form?
I am somewhat sad that BREAK Evolutions ended up an even smaller flash in the pan than I expected. It isn't likely to be a long-term mechanic because of the main source material for the TCG, the video games, will go back and give something an Evolution (sometimes even a new lower Stage) often enough. So... what happens when something with a BREAK Evolution suddenly gets a proper Evolved Form?
The good thing is, BREAK's are only one prize card
IIRC Raticate BREAK + Poison was actually tried before Nihilego-GX's release in the form of Raticate BREAK/Ariados AOR, but it was nothing more than a decent rogue deck due to the issues that Otaku pointed out. Another issue is that you're using a GX to help set up a knock-out, something that kind of negates Raticate BREAK's advantage of being a one-prize Pokemon.
True indeed, @The Binder Guy, true indeed. At least Nihilego-GX isn't especially fragile for the role, but neither is it easpecially easy to recycle, either.
i've actually been playing this deck for a while now online, although i lose more often than i win, i'ts a lot of fun to play imo.
because there is no fast way to get to your raticate breaks, you'll have to accept you WILL fall behind in the early game.
therefore i play quite a bit of supporters and items that help accelerate finding those evolutions (brigette early and stuff like evosoda into wally later on in the game)
you also need to play more stretchers than usual, because unlike greninja break (which more or less played in a similiar manner evolution-wise) you don't have something like splash energy that keeps your onslaught of rats going.
with energy i'm still experimenting a bit, right now i'm trying to play using only DCE and counter energy.
and finally poison barb is the tool of choice for this deck, because there are no other tools it benefits from + you don't have to rely on nihilego as much.
because there is no fast way to get to your raticate breaks, you'll have to accept you WILL fall behind in the early game.
therefore i play quite a bit of supporters and items that help accelerate finding those evolutions (brigette early and stuff like evosoda into wally later on in the game)
you also need to play more stretchers than usual, because unlike greninja break (which more or less played in a similiar manner evolution-wise) you don't have something like splash energy that keeps your onslaught of rats going.
with energy i'm still experimenting a bit, right now i'm trying to play using only DCE and counter energy.
and finally poison barb is the tool of choice for this deck, because there are no other tools it benefits from + you don't have to rely on nihilego as much.
I've played against it IRL a couple of times already.
It's a good deck, especially when up against slower decks. Counter Energy really helps its tempo and the kill move is almost completely indefensable.
Streamlining RatBREAKs is the single challenge the deck faces, but a powerplay of Evosoda>Wally>DCE>Nihilego is pretty awesome.
It's a good deck, especially when up against slower decks. Counter Energy really helps its tempo and the kill move is almost completely indefensable.
Streamlining RatBREAKs is the single challenge the deck faces, but a powerplay of Evosoda>Wally>DCE>Nihilego is pretty awesome.
You can prevent the OHKO by
- being immune to Special Conditions (or at least Poison)
- being immune to attack effects
Hence the "almost". While metal decks may have Magearna (but not always), other methods are not seen in today's meta.
Sorry... totally missed the "almost".