Criticism on unlimited format decks in a league that allows it?

TokenDuelist

YGO TCG is Cheaper. Fight me.
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Now, I really don't want this thread to erupt into a flame war, but I really felt like getting this out and seeing how many of you on Pokebeach have this issue too. This isn't a rant thread, but more of an experience thread.

As a Pokemon fan throughout the years, I collected the cards, loved building decks and not giving a care in the world about rotation because back then it didn't exist. Now with rotation in check, I notice a lot of players either hate it, like it, or are neutral about it. I'm one of the neutral folks, though I tend to stay out of sanctioned a lot. This is because I don't feel a need to get over-competitive with Pokemon, I don't see it as a "WIN AT ALL COSTS" kind of game, but quite frankly I think anyone who sees it as this isn't really playing for fun at all. That's my opinion and I'll leave that there for people like that to think about. Ever since rotation, I do still often mix old and new cards to make decks for fun, especially to use them in League (which often plays by unlimited) or even an unlimited format tournament that can occur. Here's the problem though, and I'm quite sure I'm not the only one out there with it...

Overly-competitive players who don't seem to quite get what being an actual Pokemon fan is about. I'd hoped that when I came back to league in a local town, that just this month began once again, I wouldn't experience this problem. I was wrong, and while I admit, the folks here are nicer, there's still the group of players who literally find my usage of older and newer cards in a deck, irritating and see a need to call it out, address it towards me, or even downright say I'm being completely cheap. Not only that, but half the time I will probably lose against another unlimited deck, but win against a limited format deck. It can easily be pointed down to "They're being a sore loser", which; yes, it's true. Their whining is just as annoying as their constant need to tell me what to do with my own deck. I'll play my way, they can play theirs. As long as it's under the rules, I don't see a need to harass someone unless they were breaking rules just to turn the game their way. (which sadly I've had happen) I have a low budget, like many of you who probably have this issue, and, not to sound mean, but players like us need to sometimes, spend money on more important things in life than just cards. Apologies if this seemed like a big rant, but this is basically explaining the situation from my point of view.

I'd like to know if any other players out there experience this kind of "bullying" at their league. Hopefully some of the prime examples of overly-competitive players reading this by now have realized that there's more to this lovely game than just winning and being at the top all the time.

I still go to league, I still enjoy playing with the fans who don't focus so much on winning all the time, but it's things like this that need to be controlled because it ruins the point of unlimited format-allowing leagues for everybody. I'm hoping some of you professors read this and take some time to look at your own league, it's players, and how it affects not only the old-generation of fans, but the younger generation as well. Have you noticed a decrease in players? Have you noticed a rise in an overly-competitive atmosphere? I think this thread just summed up the answer to your questions.

TL;DR version: Unlimited players, playing in an unlimited league, with decks they made to play for pure fun, don't need to be treated as a bad player or alienated just because they're playing with cards that are out of date. Control the criticism before it gets out of control.
 
I'm a pretty competitive player, got 2nd at like every cities in my area/in the state..but also have several unlimited decks..including the insanely broken Aggron EX, Aerodactyl Fossil, and Dark Vileplume combination..which if I get it out fast enough (and with my insane draw engine I can), completely locks down my opponent into drawing-passing til I kill them. Anyway..sometimes I've had backlash at my own league when playing an unmodified deck, even the league leaders 7 year old (who won states/regionals/something) said I was "cheating"and was "supposed" to have a modified legal deck. I was promptly like "Um..no, I can run any deck I want at League..this is Not a tournament"Her Father corrected her and all was well. Generally I don't bring my unlimited decks that much..or when I do tell my opponent in advance. One league I used to go to had an unl. tournament every month..and they ended up banning aerodactyl because of the above-mentioned deck..although I still use that at my league for league tournaments as the League runner lol.

Also..as far as I know..leagues HAVE TO allow unlimited play no matter what. So any league that says you can only use modified cards is wrong
 
I also happen to have a league that plays with an Unlimited format. I'm always playing Modified, and most people do to. But when people bust out the Mr.Mime from whatever set that says you can't damage it with attacks over 30 damage, it pisses me off. I don't bully them, but I'd rather not play with them.
 
I feel that encouraging Modified as the predominant play style for league does nothing to hurt the game for both new or old players. Unlimited has the problem of all those amazingly good cards from all across the time since Pokemon started being open to you. I don't want to have to play against someone with my Modified Legal deck if they're dropping Mr. Mime, Pidgeot FLRG, Gust of Wind and Lugia EX all over the place. Its no fun to either of us (well, maybe them if they like to win against a drastically unprepared opponent)

So, from my point of view, I go to League to have chilled out games in format, do some minor playtesting, have a bit of a laugh. I'm fine for people to use Proxies and I'm okay with people playing out of rotation cards if necessary, but I'd like to be asked if thats okay, and I don't want to deal with unbalanced games like that.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I have no problem if people are playing Unlimited from necessity, but once people start breaking out the big amazing stuff it gets old real fast. Thankfully, my Locals is fairly new and the Metagame standardised really quickly into the current format for both old and new players. It removes most aspects of this problem
 
Lol, I don't go to league but I know what you mean, sometimes people just don't say anything and you can see in their eyes that they will not be happy until they have a Worlds trophy in their hand. I guess you could say I am an aggressive player, I am at the top tables a lot, but I try to make my opponent have some fun, make jokes and stuff. You know.
 
mlouden03 said:
I'm a pretty competitive player, got 2nd at like every cities in my area/in the state..but also have several unlimited decks..including the insanely broken Aggron EX, Aerodactyl Fossil, and Dark Vileplume combination..which if I get it out fast enough (and with my insane draw engine I can), completely locks down my opponent into drawing-passing til I kill them. Anyway..sometimes I've had backlash at my own league when playing an unmodified deck, even the league leaders 7 year old (who won states/regionals/something) said I was "cheating"and was "supposed" to have a modified legal deck. I was promptly like "Um..no, I can run any deck I want at League..this is Not a tournament"Her Father corrected her and all was well. Generally I don't bring my unlimited decks that much..or when I do tell my opponent in advance. One league I used to go to had an unl. tournament every month..and they ended up banning aerodactyl because of the above-mentioned deck..although I still use that at my league for league tournaments as the League runner lol.

Also..as far as I know..leagues HAVE TO allow unlimited play no matter what. So any league that says you can only use modified cards is wrong

Aerodactly would be my only threat because my deck relies on massive chains of evolution occuring in one turn. However, this is exactly why I have a devolutor in my deck~!

vareki said:
I feel that encouraging Modified as the predominant play style for league does nothing to hurt the game for both new or old players. Unlimited has the problem of all those amazingly good cards from all across the time since Pokemon started being open to you. I don't want to have to play against someone with my Modified Legal deck if they're dropping Mr. Mime, Pidgeot FLRG, Gust of Wind and Lugia EX all over the place. Its no fun to either of us (well, maybe them if they like to win against a drastically unprepared opponent)

So, from my point of view, I go to League to have chilled out games in format, do some minor playtesting, have a bit of a laugh. I'm fine for people to use Proxies and I'm okay with people playing out of rotation cards if necessary, but I'd like to be asked if thats okay, and I don't want to deal with unbalanced games like that.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I have no problem if people are playing Unlimited from necessity, but once people start breaking out the big amazing stuff it gets old real fast. Thankfully, my Locals is fairly new and the Metagame standardised really quickly into the current format for both old and new players. It removes most aspects of this problem

This is exactly how I feel, even funnier is the fact that the decks I play aren't insanely broken like many unlimited decks could be. I even tend to play with cards people always used to say were terrible, just to bring out the potential in them. Only difference is, people in my league know I play unlimited, and at times are out to just challenge me anyway. Kind of hypocritical, but there is one person in league who says he won't play me because I use an unlimited deck. I'm okay with that because hey, he's choosing to refuse a challenge he might feel is unfair to him.

Vulpix Yolk said:
Lol, I don't go to league but I know what you mean, sometimes people just don't say anything and you can see in their eyes that they will not be happy until they have a Worlds trophy in their hand. I guess you could say I am an aggressive player, I am at the top tables a lot, but I try to make my opponent have some fun, make jokes and stuff. You know.

Yeah, just kind of hard dealing with these kind of people. They shouldn't really whine about it, especially at league.
 
mlouden03 said:
Also..as far as I know..leagues HAVE TO allow unlimited play no matter what. So any league that says you can only use modified cards is wrong
actually its up to the leader
they can choose whether to allow unlimited or not
but usually they allow unlimited to not discourage people who dont have new cards
GraveTheUndead said:
Aerodactly would be my only threat because my deck relies on massive chains of evolution occuring in one turn. However, this is exactly why I have a devolutor in my deck~!
actually i know how that deck works, and that wont work once it set up. dark vileplume locks trainer, supporters, and stadiums. and aggron stops basic pokemon from using the attack if you do manage to attach it.
basically if it sets up before you evolve your pokemon, you wont be able to evolve, you wont be able to play trainers, supporters, or stadiums, use pokepower or pokebodies (and with both of those blocked, pokemon powers are blocked too) or attack
that pretty much leaves drawing your card for the turn and attaching an energy
unless its a cyclone energy, there isnt much else you can do.
 
@Spidy Freakshow

Ah ok..every league I've been to has allowed Any..and yeah..my deck is amazing lol. I have 4 marys..4 erikas..4 blaine's quiz #1..pokedex handy..drawers..so it's pretty much I Always get them out on my first turn lol.
 
including the insanely broken Aggron EX, Aerodactyl Fossil, and Dark Vileplume combination..which if I get it out fast enough (and with my insane draw engine I can), completely locks down my opponent into drawing-passing til I kill them.
I can think of a way to beat that deck with my own, using pretty much no modifications whatsoever. (Hint: There is only 1 Evolution card in the deck.) Moving on...

I honestly do not have a problem with anyone playing Unlimited, especially if they're newcomers. My league does allow Unlimited play, however, most people at league run Modified. The reason for that is as follows, and I believe you'll find it a fair reason:

Since we at our league want to try to encourage any newcomers to become more active in Pokemon as a whole, we slowly urge them to gradually switch over to a Modified deck. Pretty much all the newcomers have Unlimited decks (some don't, though), and as we play, we gradually get them back into the swing of things, i.e. the state of Pokemon as it is right now. We let them know that "unfortunately, cards from older sets aren't always allowed in tournaments. Every year, Pokemon rotates out the older sets to keep the game progressing and to keep it relatively balanced", so that way, if they want to play in any tournament, they'll get the memo that they need to build a newer deck. Usually the case is only a few cards need to be changed - they usually just buy a newer starter deck and add some Unlimited cards to it. As a result, everyone at the league plays Modified, yet it's an incredibly laid-back atmosphere.

I play Modified all the time, mostly because I want tournament practice, and to test my deck against pretty much anything so that, if I know it comes up again, I know exactly how to stop it. But no, nobody criticizes Unlimited, even though my league has a lot of competitive players. I do know exactly what you mean, though.

(When I first came to league with my deck from Johto days, I actually won about half the time, mostly because my Unlimited deck used Fossil Muk. It was an awesome deck even by today's standards.)
 
mlouden03 said:
@Spidy Freakshow

Ah ok..every league I've been to has allowed Any..and yeah..my deck is amazing lol. I have 4 marys..4 erikas..4 blaine's quiz #1..pokedex handy..drawers..so it's pretty much I Always get them out on my first turn lol.

ya, unlimited is insanely fast
i have a deck that uses blastiose ex (soon to be emboar) and espeon AQ to repeatedly put energies on forretress LA to damage everything, and pokemon centers to heal my side of the field. and it does that all t1 too :p
 
^And people wonder why TPCI rotates sets the way they do. I think the reasons are all right here.
 
@ DNA

Oh trust me, I know this very well. I'm even working on a B/W deck at the moment for battle roads (if I'm able to make it, it might land on a convention day so no chance there. ) and to play against those who find it unfair. I do agree that those who strictly go "I only use old cards" are the tad more troubling ones. As long as there's a fair balance and understanding (which in my case, is hard to do for others) then it's something I can handle. Though when the players are aggressive and judgemental about it, when they really think an unlimited deck shouldn't exist at all, that's going a bit too far.
 
Our league only plays modified. To be honest it isn't any fun for the players who play modified to go against an unlimited deck. There is a reason that Pokemon rotates sets out to balance the format.

For example we have moved on to a HGSS-on format, because we are almost 100% positive that this will be the format for Nationals. Last week everyone had a HGSS-on deck except one guy. Playing HGSS-on against a deck with sableye, mesprit, uxie, and a speed engine isn't fun at all and it basically ruined our entire tournament.
 
jordanbakersays said:
Our league only plays modified. To be honest it isn't any fun for the players who play modified to go against an unlimited deck. There is a reason that Pokemon rotates sets out to balance the format.

For example we have moved on to a HGSS-on format, because we are almost 100% positive that this will be the format for Nationals. Last week everyone had a HGSS-on deck except one guy. Playing HGSS-on against a deck with sableye, mesprit, uxie, and a speed engine isn't fun at all and it basically ruined our entire tournament.

no ones going to battle roads?
 
jordanbakersays said:
Our league only plays modified. To be honest it isn't any fun for the players who play modified to go against an unlimited deck. There is a reason that Pokemon rotates sets out to balance the format.

For example we have moved on to a HGSS-on format, because we are almost 100% positive that this will be the format for Nationals. Last week everyone had a HGSS-on deck except one guy. Playing HGSS-on against a deck with sableye, mesprit, uxie, and a speed engine isn't fun at all and it basically ruined our entire tournament.

Obviously there's a reason, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't force it on others who actually have a limited format deck as well as an unlimited. The point of this is to make a call out to those who play for fun, not those who play competitively. I'm not saying everyone who plays with a modified deck isn't having fun, I'm just saying there isn't a need to slam those down who play this game with older cards. If they had such a problem with it, they could easily mix n' match, not battle them at all, or simply not criticize them for it.

As for losing to the Sableye deck, that's not the player's fault or the rotation's fault. It hasn't been confirmed yet so basically you guys kinda walked right into that.
 
Battle roads is going to be a donk-fest and we've already tested the crap out of an md-on BW rules format. An HGSS-on format is more wide open and in need of more testing.
 
Personally, I'm not a fan of modified at all, and I haven't been active in league play lately because I haven't found any leagues in the area with a good number of unlimited players. (Yes, I can often beat modified decks with my unlimited one, but what's the point?)

That said, I wish there was some kind of middle ground. Banning a few broken cards or combos (I haven't personally played against the Aero/Dark Vileplume/Aggron EX deck, for instance, but it does sound fairly unbeatable if the deck isn't designed to counter it - then again, modified is often dominated by a few decks as well) without throwing out 80% of cards ever made. If the official people can't (I remember reading something about restrictions on bans Japan-side, although that was back when Wizards controlled it here and might not still apply), even finding a fan organization ala smogon to do it would make enormous progress.

...and is Mr. Mime really THAT much of a problem? Retreat and send out something that deals 20. Carry a switch or two if you have to. I've never had trouble with it.
 
Here's what I do with regards to format legality at my Pokemon League.

I run a tournament about once a month. I charge a minor admit fee, and I ENFORCE Modified in the tournament. I also hand out a nice handful of previous League promos to players who enter the event. It indirectly boosts store sales (because Modified cards sell), and it gets my players ready for higher-profile, Modified-only events (such as Battle Roads and Regionals).

If you want to come play Unlimited that's fine, but I don't allow it in my tournaments. Most of my players wouldn't find it overly unfair they'd be more like "Well. Now I need to find something to BEAT you, cause that's so broken hahaha." (I really do have a great set of players)
 
I haven't played at a league in over 10 years. Before reading this I thought only modified cards were allowed because a while back I read something about WotC cards (which is mostly what I have) not being allowed, but I guess that's only at tournaments? Not like it really matters to me. The closest league is 2.5 hours away. We used to have one here at Toys R Us and a local comic shop but I think interest steadily decreased over the years. Of course I'm all for unlimited since I doubt I'd have enough new/modified cards to make a complete deck anyway.
 
Personally, I'm not a fan of modified at all, and I haven't been active in league play lately because I haven't found any leagues in the area with a good number of unlimited players. (Yes, I can often beat modified decks with my unlimited one, but what's the point?)

That said, I wish there was some kind of middle ground. Banning a few broken cards or combos (I haven't personally played against the Aero/Dark Vileplume/Aggron EX deck, for instance, but it does sound fairly unbeatable if the deck isn't designed to counter it - then again, modified is often dominated by a few decks as well) without throwing out 80% of cards ever made.
QFT

My friend brought an Unlimited deck to League just for fun once, and it was basically a donk-style deck using Porygon-Z's Overload, combined with a bunch of Item Finders/Seekers/draw cards to get rid of the opponent's entire bench (the deck can use Seeker 6+ times in one turn very easily via Porygon2's Download) and then Overload for a KO.

And people wonder why P!P does rotations. I don't understand the people that don't get why; I really don't =P
 
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