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Decks
- Thread starter Celebi23
- Start date
RE: Back to Basics: Decks
Here's what I have so far:
Pokemon(20):
4-2-3 Venusaur EX
2-1 Lucario*
1 Mesprit*
1 Uxie*
1 Azelf*
2 Smeargle
2 Kyurem
1 Celebi*
T/S/S(26):
4 Repeat Ball
1 Master Ball
3 Poke Toy
3 Skyla
3 Drayden
2 Blessed Zone
3 Rare Candy
4 Blue Flute
3 Brycen
Energy(14):
3 Broken Scramble Energy
11 {G} Energy
Strategy here is to get a really big hand using Lucario and the othe pokemon pokemon*, while setting up venusaur. once venusaur is set up, you can discard cards form the big hand you accumulated while evolving to deal big damage to the opponent. Kyurem is a back up attacker that lets you come back from a defeat early on, and if you're 3 or more prizes behind it's amazingly good. For a broken scramble energy, it can deal 120 damage and retreive a card from the discard for venusaur's use. Smeargle is here for energy accel, hand size increase, and of course its foul play- esque attack.
Here's what I have so far:
Pokemon(20):
4-2-3 Venusaur EX
2-1 Lucario*
1 Mesprit*
1 Uxie*
1 Azelf*
2 Smeargle
2 Kyurem
1 Celebi*
T/S/S(26):
4 Repeat Ball
1 Master Ball
3 Poke Toy
3 Skyla
3 Drayden
2 Blessed Zone
3 Rare Candy
4 Blue Flute
3 Brycen
Energy(14):
3 Broken Scramble Energy
11 {G} Energy
Strategy here is to get a really big hand using Lucario and the othe pokemon pokemon*, while setting up venusaur. once venusaur is set up, you can discard cards form the big hand you accumulated while evolving to deal big damage to the opponent. Kyurem is a back up attacker that lets you come back from a defeat early on, and if you're 3 or more prizes behind it's amazingly good. For a broken scramble energy, it can deal 120 damage and retreive a card from the discard for venusaur's use. Smeargle is here for energy accel, hand size increase, and of course its foul play- esque attack.
RE: Back to Basics: Decks
Alright then.
1 Celebi *
1 Mesprit *
1 Azelf *
1 Uxie *
4 Smeargle
4 Kyurem
2 Victini
4 Broken Scramble
4 Cyclone
4 Warp
4 Steven
4 Brycen
2 Sabrina
2 Drayden
4 Nest Ball
1 Master Ball
1 Repeat Ball
4 Blue Flute
2 Yellow Flute
4 Skyla
4 Poke Toy
Strat: Use Smeargle quickly but fall behind due to its low HP and then use Kyurem with Broken Scramble to continue attacking.
Alright then.
1 Celebi *
1 Mesprit *
1 Azelf *
1 Uxie *
4 Smeargle
4 Kyurem
2 Victini
4 Broken Scramble
4 Cyclone
4 Warp
4 Steven
4 Brycen
2 Sabrina
2 Drayden
4 Nest Ball
1 Master Ball
1 Repeat Ball
4 Blue Flute
2 Yellow Flute
4 Skyla
4 Poke Toy
Strat: Use Smeargle quickly but fall behind due to its low HP and then use Kyurem with Broken Scramble to continue attacking.
RE: Back to Basics: Decks
4-4 Bronzong
3-2-3 Klinklang
1 Luvdisc
1 Azelf *
18
4 Repeat Ball
1 Master Ball
2 Nest Ball
2 Great Ball
1 Max Revive
4 Steven
4 Skyla
4 Yellow Flute
3 Fluffy Tail
4 Brycen
2 Rare Candy
31
3 Water Energy
4 Sp. Metal Energy
4 Advantage Energy
11
Strategy: Tank with Klingklang while disrupting. Also works with Metagross EX.
4-4 Bronzong
3-2-3 Klinklang
1 Luvdisc
1 Azelf *
18
4 Repeat Ball
1 Master Ball
2 Nest Ball
2 Great Ball
1 Max Revive
4 Steven
4 Skyla
4 Yellow Flute
3 Fluffy Tail
4 Brycen
2 Rare Candy
31
3 Water Energy
4 Sp. Metal Energy
4 Advantage Energy
11
Strategy: Tank with Klingklang while disrupting. Also works with Metagross EX.
RE: Back to Basics: Decks
x4 Nincada
x4 Ninjask
x4 Shedinja
x1 Victini
x1 Sableye
x1 Jirachi EX
x1 Celebi *
x1 Mesprit *
x1 Uxie *
(18)
x4 Double Colorless Energy
x4 Broken Scramble Energy
x4 Grass
x1 Psychic
(13)
x4 X Attack
x4 Repeat Ball
x4 Nest Ball
x4 Steven
x4 Skyla
x4 Sabrina
x4 Drayden
x2 PokeToy
x2 Max Revive
x1 Master Ball
Strategy: T1 Nincada (hopefully) and then attach energy and use first attack to get a Grass energy on it. T2 Ninjask and start attacking. Build up Shedinja on the bench to keep the Ninjask alive and well. After a couple of turns the Ninjask will have enough energy to knock out pretty much anything in the format. Mesprit + Jirachi is just something I like trolling with because it forces your opponent to find a Warp Point or start attaching and attacking. Pretty much everything else is dedicated to setting up, getting energy, or preventing my opponent from doing things.
x4 Eevee
x4 Vaporeon
x1 Umbreon EX
x4 Nidoran
x4 Nidoking
x1 Dunsparce
x1 Jirachi EX
x1 Mesprit *
x1 Uxie *
(21)
x4 Multi Energy
x4 Water Energy
x4 Psychic Energy
(12)
x4 Skyla
x4 Rare Candy
x4 Steven
x3 Sabrina
x3 Drayden
x3 Poisoned Field
x2 PokeToy
x2 Nest Ball
x1 Max Revive
x1 Master Ball
(27)
Strategy: Get a Vaporeon active and start attacking for low damage, but drawing cards regularly. Then build up Nidoking on the bench and start spreading damage without repercussions. Poison Field to deal the real damage to the active. Mesprit + Jirachi is still ridiculous, especially with Nidoking, as you can just lock your opponent in and spread for a couple of turns before retreating. The deck is basically all about picking and choosing where you put your damage, while setting up quickly.
x4 Nincada
x4 Ninjask
x4 Shedinja
x1 Victini
x1 Sableye
x1 Jirachi EX
x1 Celebi *
x1 Mesprit *
x1 Uxie *
(18)
x4 Double Colorless Energy
x4 Broken Scramble Energy
x4 Grass
x1 Psychic
(13)
x4 X Attack
x4 Repeat Ball
x4 Nest Ball
x4 Steven
x4 Skyla
x4 Sabrina
x4 Drayden
x2 PokeToy
x2 Max Revive
x1 Master Ball
Strategy: T1 Nincada (hopefully) and then attach energy and use first attack to get a Grass energy on it. T2 Ninjask and start attacking. Build up Shedinja on the bench to keep the Ninjask alive and well. After a couple of turns the Ninjask will have enough energy to knock out pretty much anything in the format. Mesprit + Jirachi is just something I like trolling with because it forces your opponent to find a Warp Point or start attaching and attacking. Pretty much everything else is dedicated to setting up, getting energy, or preventing my opponent from doing things.
x4 Eevee
x4 Vaporeon
x1 Umbreon EX
x4 Nidoran
x4 Nidoking
x1 Dunsparce
x1 Jirachi EX
x1 Mesprit *
x1 Uxie *
(21)
x4 Multi Energy
x4 Water Energy
x4 Psychic Energy
(12)
x4 Skyla
x4 Rare Candy
x4 Steven
x3 Sabrina
x3 Drayden
x3 Poisoned Field
x2 PokeToy
x2 Nest Ball
x1 Max Revive
x1 Master Ball
(27)
Strategy: Get a Vaporeon active and start attacking for low damage, but drawing cards regularly. Then build up Nidoking on the bench and start spreading damage without repercussions. Poison Field to deal the real damage to the active. Mesprit + Jirachi is still ridiculous, especially with Nidoking, as you can just lock your opponent in and spread for a couple of turns before retreating. The deck is basically all about picking and choosing where you put your damage, while setting up quickly.
RE: Back to Basics: Decks
I'm going to avoid commenting on any of the decks in order to avoid ruining the "integrity" of the theoretical metagame, but I'd just like to point out one thing which is possibly incorrect.
It's in DoX's first list - he's running DCE, but Ninjask adds damage for each energy card, not each energy.
I'm going to avoid commenting on any of the decks in order to avoid ruining the "integrity" of the theoretical metagame, but I'd just like to point out one thing which is possibly incorrect.
It's in DoX's first list - he's running DCE, but Ninjask adds damage for each energy card, not each energy.
RE: Back to Basics: Decks
Gah looks like I misread the Ninjask, oh-well the theory behind the deck is still solid, although the damage output took a bit of a hit.
As for the deck that runs basically just Kyurem and Broken Scramble, you have to be behind three prizes for BS to provide all the energy that you need to attack, so you can never actually win with that deck, just make a decent comeback for a couple of prizes. That is, unless you were planning on taking the remaining three prizes with Smeargle...
And the deck that has 8 Metal energy for the Klingklang, I'm pretty sure there aren't any basic metal energy in this format, but that might just me be missing something again. I like the idea though, using Bronzong and Fluffy Tail as a way to keep your attackers going.
Just had a quick idea after running through the scans again though, and this way you can utilize Kyurem's attack to its fullest.
4 Ditto EX
2 Kyurem
3 Umbreon EX
3 Venusaur EX
1 Celebi *
1 Mesprit *
1 Uxie *
(15)
4 Broken Scramble Energy
4 Cyclone Energy
(8)
4 Nest Ball
4 X Attack
4 PokeToy
4 Yellow Flute
4 Blue Flute
4 Fluffy Tail
4 Steven
4 Sabrina
4 Skyla
1 Master Ball
(37)
Basically you just need to start with a Ditto and Skyla. Grab a Celebi and a Kyurem. Play Celebi and toss a Broken Scramble on Ditto. Then keep using Kyurem's attack for 60 and a card from the discard pile over and over and over again. It's a consistent 60+ damage after the second turn. Umbreon is for sniping my opponent after they use too many Stars, and Venusar is for a big bang to knock out anything else that gets in the way. As long as I don't start with the Kyurem, there shouldn't be any problems.
Gah looks like I misread the Ninjask, oh-well the theory behind the deck is still solid, although the damage output took a bit of a hit.
As for the deck that runs basically just Kyurem and Broken Scramble, you have to be behind three prizes for BS to provide all the energy that you need to attack, so you can never actually win with that deck, just make a decent comeback for a couple of prizes. That is, unless you were planning on taking the remaining three prizes with Smeargle...
And the deck that has 8 Metal energy for the Klingklang, I'm pretty sure there aren't any basic metal energy in this format, but that might just me be missing something again. I like the idea though, using Bronzong and Fluffy Tail as a way to keep your attackers going.
Just had a quick idea after running through the scans again though, and this way you can utilize Kyurem's attack to its fullest.
4 Ditto EX
2 Kyurem
3 Umbreon EX
3 Venusaur EX
1 Celebi *
1 Mesprit *
1 Uxie *
(15)
4 Broken Scramble Energy
4 Cyclone Energy
(8)
4 Nest Ball
4 X Attack
4 PokeToy
4 Yellow Flute
4 Blue Flute
4 Fluffy Tail
4 Steven
4 Sabrina
4 Skyla
1 Master Ball
(37)
Basically you just need to start with a Ditto and Skyla. Grab a Celebi and a Kyurem. Play Celebi and toss a Broken Scramble on Ditto. Then keep using Kyurem's attack for 60 and a card from the discard pile over and over and over again. It's a consistent 60+ damage after the second turn. Umbreon is for sniping my opponent after they use too many Stars, and Venusar is for a big bang to knock out anything else that gets in the way. As long as I don't start with the Kyurem, there shouldn't be any problems.
RE: Back to Basics: Decks
22 POKEMON
2-1 Lucario *
1 Azelf *
1 Uxie *
1 Mespirit *
3-2-3 Victreebel
3-2-3 Venasaur-EX
7 ENERGY
7 Grass
31 I/S/S
4 Skyla
4 Sabrina
3 Iris
2 Steven
2 Blessed Zone
2 Max Revive
1 Revive
3 PokeToy
2 X Attack
1 Master Ball
3 Nest Ball
4 Rare Candy
Grass Box with a STAR Engine. Victreebel can be annoying, causing 3 Special Conditions with one energy. Venasaur hits heavy when needed, and I run a ton of trainers, so it boosts Venusaur's attack. Also Blessed Zone gives both Main attackers no weakness.
22 POKEMON
2-1 Lucario *
1 Azelf *
1 Uxie *
1 Mespirit *
3-2-3 Victreebel
3-2-3 Venasaur-EX
7 ENERGY
7 Grass
31 I/S/S
4 Skyla
4 Sabrina
3 Iris
2 Steven
2 Blessed Zone
2 Max Revive
1 Revive
3 PokeToy
2 X Attack
1 Master Ball
3 Nest Ball
4 Rare Candy
Grass Box with a STAR Engine. Victreebel can be annoying, causing 3 Special Conditions with one energy. Venasaur hits heavy when needed, and I run a ton of trainers, so it boosts Venusaur's attack. Also Blessed Zone gives both Main attackers no weakness.
RE: Back to Basics: Decks
Alright, I'll also see this. Out of the decks listed, I was only expecting two to be Tier 1, and 1 or 2 of the others to be Tier 2. Maybe if you guys work together instead of all just posting random lists, you'll be able to figure out what's wrong with some of the concepts behind a couple of these decks and figure out what the rest of the meta is. :3
Alright, I'll also see this. Out of the decks listed, I was only expecting two to be Tier 1, and 1 or 2 of the others to be Tier 2. Maybe if you guys work together instead of all just posting random lists, you'll be able to figure out what's wrong with some of the concepts behind a couple of these decks and figure out what the rest of the meta is. :3
RE: Back to Basics: Decks
Well I mean the metagame is what gets played, not what is necessarily the best; and fitting cards into Tiers is actually pretty counterproductive for a "new-game" that boasts diversity and every-card-playability. Plus we weren't exactly told to discover the meta here, just post some decks and theorymon around with some new and interesting cards.
As for that Grassbox, you aren't going to be attacking or taking prizes for a while with only seven energy. With only one Revive that means that you can attack with a maximum of three Venusaur, and that is without any Victreebel or anything else. So you are either going to need to up the energy, or overhaul the deck.
As for the so called metagame, well judging by the fact that every deck I've seen runs some sort of Star Engine, that would mean that either Umbreon EX or Luvdisc would be acceptable plays. Just going through all the main attackers available there are:
Victreebel-Could be useful, especially in swarm form, but it seems too reliant on DCE, and has no real backup strategy other than attack, which means that it would fall apart if it faced a drought or a deck with a more complex strategy.
Charizard-About the same as Victreebel, you just take two turns, build one up and start attacking, while juggling energy and other resources. Although at least here you have Victini to help out a bit.
Metagross EX-Absolutely useless.
Ninjask-Draw a card and then swing for at least 40, coupled with Shedinja it makes for a decent card.
Reshiram/Zekrom/Kyurem-Basically just there to abuse Broken Scramble, so I wouldn't call these main attackers.
Golem-With Graveler it has some synergy, and being the same type as Lucario * is always a plus (now you can Ascension the Lucario) and Enraged Linear attack has some potential in this Low-HP-Tech-Heavy format.
Umbreon EX-Good attacks, but not good enough for an EX that is supposed to be a main attacker. This is just a tech.
Venusaur EX-Already been established as a decent attacker in this format.
Magnezone-Bad.
Ditto EX-Completely dependent on how you want to play it.
Nidoking-Probably the most potential for a deck here. The Power is good, and the Energy to Damage ratio isn't half bad, especially in this format. With only one retreat cost, you could use a couple of the PokePowers and then just retreat and attack with a different Nidoking. If you build up manually, that gives you at least 40 damage a turn, plus a ten snipe, just for a single energy.
Klingklang-Good way to stall, if you manage to build one up correctly that means that you are going to only be taking about 20 damage a turn, which can then just be moved away with Bronzong.
So basically that gives you Venusaur Decks, Nidoking Decks, Klingklang Decks and then possibly Golem decks mostly. Ninjask and Charizard get honorable mentions, as does Ditto, if you can make the deck work. Victreebel is disruptive, but it is also going to require you to forego your draw every turn in exchange for grabbing that Grass Energy back. So once your opponent does build up something on the bench and slap through your active Victreebel, you lose.
So with those six decks established as what would most likely be the metagame, it would breakdown something like this: Charizard counters Venusaur and Klingklang fairly well, without having to worry much, and most decks could just adapt and start using the Rocket's Admin (too lazy to look up the name) to disrupt the opposing hand later in the game. In fact, as soon as the Venusaur deck whiffs at getting a Steven's they are going to lose. While Venusaur may have the most consistent damage output (anything that does consistently more than 70 is the best that you get in this format) it doesn't do enough for an EX, and it burns through your deck instead of actually giving you options. With that in mind I'd probably drop Venusaur into either Tier 2 or lower. Klingklang has a solid setup strategy, T1 attach to something else, T2 attach to something else and possibly use your Power to grab a Metal out of the discard (although the only way to actually get a Metal into the discard intentionally would be with Sabrina) and then T3 you get Klingklang, use the Power, and attach that other energy you had squirreled away. Then you can do 40 a turn while reducing by 40. That keeps Klingklang out of KO range for pretty much the entire game, and with a Bronzong you would be immortal, except for Charizard who could outpower you, or the occaisonal Venusaur who could blow a bunch of cards to grab that KO. The only downside for the deck is that if you run out of Metal Energy you lose, and nobody wants to waste time late-game grabbing one from their discard pile. Overall I'd toss Klingklang into Tier 1. Nidoking would probably be Tier 1, as it would be able to beat out Venusaur, and Charizard simply due to energy management. It gets trolled by Klingklang, but that is just life. Charizard would probably be Tier 1.5 depending on where Venusaur and Klingklang fall. Klingklang can still be a 4HKO for Charizard if it has Bronzong out, so Charizard isn't necessarily the best counter for that matchup. Golem would probably be Tier 2, it doesn't do much against Klingklang, although it would be able to snipe out the Bronzongs, which is more than most other decks are able to do. Enraged Linear Attack does bring a new dynamic to the table, which is sniping for big damage, something which may be important in the format. In fact, with Graveler and Bronzong, you should be able to put the perfect amount of damage onto your active Golem to be able to snipe whichever Pokemon you want. The more that I think about it, the more I want to move Golem to Tier 1 (I'm writing this all stream of consciousness). Ninjask and Ditto are both more niche decks, trying to do something new and interesting in a format which basically boils down to attach three energy and attack for something that resembles 60 damage. Although I would like to point out that Ninjask can do 50 damage on the second turn of the game, which is reasonably dangerous. Ditto can also deal 60 damage on the second turn, which is even more dangerous, as Ditto doesn't need to evolve or attach more than one energy. That kind of early game power would make Ditto a staple in more Stage 2 decks, which would still be setting up at the time, and would need something to keep up with the early game 60 damage throwing.
Tier 1:
Klingklang
Nidoking
Golem
Tier 1.5:
Charizard
Ditto EX Swarm
Tier 2:
Venusaur
Ninjask
So what I gained from thinking this much (as far as deckbuilding is concerned) would be:
1. 2-2 Bronzong in most Stage 2 decks. Klingklang needs it, Charizard could use it as a way to charge up more Charizards without damaging them with Firestarter (or whatever it's called). Nidoking has type synergy with Bronzong, and wouldn't mind keeping itself healthier. Golem needs Bronzong to keep ELA accurate. Venusaur could use Bronzong as well, but simply because it seems to be a better idea than anything else in the deck. Only Ninjask and Ditto don't need Bronzong and that is because Ditto needs to avoid unnecessary basic Pokemon, and Ninjask has Shedinja to sudo-heal it.
2. Rare Candy is still necessary, but all of the Stage 1 Pokemon have their uses. Nidorino is great for Nidoking, Charmeleon is good for the second turn of the game, Klang is crucial for Klingklang, and Graveler is also crucial to Golem. Ivysaur isn't all that great, which may be why Venusaur isn't that good either.
3. Play Ditto. For a single energy you can seriously troll your opponents setup, and all you need is to have a decent Pokemon in your hand.
4. Most decks need to have some form of switching in order to function entirely. So you are either going to need to play a lot of PokeToy or rock Phione and Fluffy Tail. I'm still not sure which is better.
Then there are the basic things that I have learned for deckbuilding just by looking through the cards.
1. Play the Stars. You need to play Mesprit and Uxie at the very least. Azelf is alright, but I feel that it is a waste of space. Celebi can be good depending on the deck. Lucario is a bit of a mystery to me, I'd only strongly recommend it in Golem.
2. If you need a starter, play Luvdisc, that way you can at least grab a couple of bench Pokemon and then hopefully stop your opponent from using too many of their Stars. Its all about timing with this card.
3. Mesprit + Jirachi EX should be in every deck that can afford the space. It is the closest thing you have to stalling in the format, and buying yourself a turn or two of time can be crucial.
4. Think about Umbreon EX, the card can be a real game changer, since most decks put at least two Stars into the LZ per game, more if you are lucky. Although a 40 damage snipe is about as useful as Jirachi's attack.
5. If your deck can use Broken Scramble, do it, it has no real drawbacks that I can see, and if you do play BS, toss in a Kyurem just in case.
6. Max your Steven's. It was ridiculous back in HL-On and it is extra ridiculous now.
This post has contributed to Dawn Of Xatu's Grains of Sand!
Well I mean the metagame is what gets played, not what is necessarily the best; and fitting cards into Tiers is actually pretty counterproductive for a "new-game" that boasts diversity and every-card-playability. Plus we weren't exactly told to discover the meta here, just post some decks and theorymon around with some new and interesting cards.
As for that Grassbox, you aren't going to be attacking or taking prizes for a while with only seven energy. With only one Revive that means that you can attack with a maximum of three Venusaur, and that is without any Victreebel or anything else. So you are either going to need to up the energy, or overhaul the deck.
As for the so called metagame, well judging by the fact that every deck I've seen runs some sort of Star Engine, that would mean that either Umbreon EX or Luvdisc would be acceptable plays. Just going through all the main attackers available there are:
Victreebel-Could be useful, especially in swarm form, but it seems too reliant on DCE, and has no real backup strategy other than attack, which means that it would fall apart if it faced a drought or a deck with a more complex strategy.
Charizard-About the same as Victreebel, you just take two turns, build one up and start attacking, while juggling energy and other resources. Although at least here you have Victini to help out a bit.
Metagross EX-Absolutely useless.
Ninjask-Draw a card and then swing for at least 40, coupled with Shedinja it makes for a decent card.
Reshiram/Zekrom/Kyurem-Basically just there to abuse Broken Scramble, so I wouldn't call these main attackers.
Golem-With Graveler it has some synergy, and being the same type as Lucario * is always a plus (now you can Ascension the Lucario) and Enraged Linear attack has some potential in this Low-HP-Tech-Heavy format.
Umbreon EX-Good attacks, but not good enough for an EX that is supposed to be a main attacker. This is just a tech.
Venusaur EX-Already been established as a decent attacker in this format.
Magnezone-Bad.
Ditto EX-Completely dependent on how you want to play it.
Nidoking-Probably the most potential for a deck here. The Power is good, and the Energy to Damage ratio isn't half bad, especially in this format. With only one retreat cost, you could use a couple of the PokePowers and then just retreat and attack with a different Nidoking. If you build up manually, that gives you at least 40 damage a turn, plus a ten snipe, just for a single energy.
Klingklang-Good way to stall, if you manage to build one up correctly that means that you are going to only be taking about 20 damage a turn, which can then just be moved away with Bronzong.
So basically that gives you Venusaur Decks, Nidoking Decks, Klingklang Decks and then possibly Golem decks mostly. Ninjask and Charizard get honorable mentions, as does Ditto, if you can make the deck work. Victreebel is disruptive, but it is also going to require you to forego your draw every turn in exchange for grabbing that Grass Energy back. So once your opponent does build up something on the bench and slap through your active Victreebel, you lose.
So with those six decks established as what would most likely be the metagame, it would breakdown something like this: Charizard counters Venusaur and Klingklang fairly well, without having to worry much, and most decks could just adapt and start using the Rocket's Admin (too lazy to look up the name) to disrupt the opposing hand later in the game. In fact, as soon as the Venusaur deck whiffs at getting a Steven's they are going to lose. While Venusaur may have the most consistent damage output (anything that does consistently more than 70 is the best that you get in this format) it doesn't do enough for an EX, and it burns through your deck instead of actually giving you options. With that in mind I'd probably drop Venusaur into either Tier 2 or lower. Klingklang has a solid setup strategy, T1 attach to something else, T2 attach to something else and possibly use your Power to grab a Metal out of the discard (although the only way to actually get a Metal into the discard intentionally would be with Sabrina) and then T3 you get Klingklang, use the Power, and attach that other energy you had squirreled away. Then you can do 40 a turn while reducing by 40. That keeps Klingklang out of KO range for pretty much the entire game, and with a Bronzong you would be immortal, except for Charizard who could outpower you, or the occaisonal Venusaur who could blow a bunch of cards to grab that KO. The only downside for the deck is that if you run out of Metal Energy you lose, and nobody wants to waste time late-game grabbing one from their discard pile. Overall I'd toss Klingklang into Tier 1. Nidoking would probably be Tier 1, as it would be able to beat out Venusaur, and Charizard simply due to energy management. It gets trolled by Klingklang, but that is just life. Charizard would probably be Tier 1.5 depending on where Venusaur and Klingklang fall. Klingklang can still be a 4HKO for Charizard if it has Bronzong out, so Charizard isn't necessarily the best counter for that matchup. Golem would probably be Tier 2, it doesn't do much against Klingklang, although it would be able to snipe out the Bronzongs, which is more than most other decks are able to do. Enraged Linear Attack does bring a new dynamic to the table, which is sniping for big damage, something which may be important in the format. In fact, with Graveler and Bronzong, you should be able to put the perfect amount of damage onto your active Golem to be able to snipe whichever Pokemon you want. The more that I think about it, the more I want to move Golem to Tier 1 (I'm writing this all stream of consciousness). Ninjask and Ditto are both more niche decks, trying to do something new and interesting in a format which basically boils down to attach three energy and attack for something that resembles 60 damage. Although I would like to point out that Ninjask can do 50 damage on the second turn of the game, which is reasonably dangerous. Ditto can also deal 60 damage on the second turn, which is even more dangerous, as Ditto doesn't need to evolve or attach more than one energy. That kind of early game power would make Ditto a staple in more Stage 2 decks, which would still be setting up at the time, and would need something to keep up with the early game 60 damage throwing.
Tier 1:
Klingklang
Nidoking
Golem
Tier 1.5:
Charizard
Ditto EX Swarm
Tier 2:
Venusaur
Ninjask
So what I gained from thinking this much (as far as deckbuilding is concerned) would be:
1. 2-2 Bronzong in most Stage 2 decks. Klingklang needs it, Charizard could use it as a way to charge up more Charizards without damaging them with Firestarter (or whatever it's called). Nidoking has type synergy with Bronzong, and wouldn't mind keeping itself healthier. Golem needs Bronzong to keep ELA accurate. Venusaur could use Bronzong as well, but simply because it seems to be a better idea than anything else in the deck. Only Ninjask and Ditto don't need Bronzong and that is because Ditto needs to avoid unnecessary basic Pokemon, and Ninjask has Shedinja to sudo-heal it.
2. Rare Candy is still necessary, but all of the Stage 1 Pokemon have their uses. Nidorino is great for Nidoking, Charmeleon is good for the second turn of the game, Klang is crucial for Klingklang, and Graveler is also crucial to Golem. Ivysaur isn't all that great, which may be why Venusaur isn't that good either.
3. Play Ditto. For a single energy you can seriously troll your opponents setup, and all you need is to have a decent Pokemon in your hand.
4. Most decks need to have some form of switching in order to function entirely. So you are either going to need to play a lot of PokeToy or rock Phione and Fluffy Tail. I'm still not sure which is better.
Then there are the basic things that I have learned for deckbuilding just by looking through the cards.
1. Play the Stars. You need to play Mesprit and Uxie at the very least. Azelf is alright, but I feel that it is a waste of space. Celebi can be good depending on the deck. Lucario is a bit of a mystery to me, I'd only strongly recommend it in Golem.
2. If you need a starter, play Luvdisc, that way you can at least grab a couple of bench Pokemon and then hopefully stop your opponent from using too many of their Stars. Its all about timing with this card.
3. Mesprit + Jirachi EX should be in every deck that can afford the space. It is the closest thing you have to stalling in the format, and buying yourself a turn or two of time can be crucial.
4. Think about Umbreon EX, the card can be a real game changer, since most decks put at least two Stars into the LZ per game, more if you are lucky. Although a 40 damage snipe is about as useful as Jirachi's attack.
5. If your deck can use Broken Scramble, do it, it has no real drawbacks that I can see, and if you do play BS, toss in a Kyurem just in case.
6. Max your Steven's. It was ridiculous back in HL-On and it is extra ridiculous now.
This post has contributed to Dawn Of Xatu's Grains of Sand!
RE: Back to Basics: Decks
I will say this regarding your post: the next two sets will really shake up the game a lot. I was worried with an incredibly small cardpool like this one, introducing actual combos and complex strategies/attacks would result in one just taking over without anything to really compete with it. There are a lot of parts of combos scattered around, without real organization yet. After the card pool expands a little, things should get more interesting. I wanted to set up the engines and techs and stuff first (the context) before actually introducing the main cards. But you're right that a big part of the game right now is setting up and hitting for damage as quickly and reliably as possibly.
Very good point. More than anything else, I was trying to encourage people to have some more intelligent discussions rather than to just post whatever list pops into their head. It looks like my goal may have been accomplished after all, if people respond to your post.DawnOfXatu said:
I will say this regarding your post: the next two sets will really shake up the game a lot. I was worried with an incredibly small cardpool like this one, introducing actual combos and complex strategies/attacks would result in one just taking over without anything to really compete with it. There are a lot of parts of combos scattered around, without real organization yet. After the card pool expands a little, things should get more interesting. I wanted to set up the engines and techs and stuff first (the context) before actually introducing the main cards. But you're right that a big part of the game right now is setting up and hitting for damage as quickly and reliably as possibly.
RE: Back to Basics: Decks
Well, I liked Reshiplosion a lot, so I built another one.
Pokemon: 14
3-2-3 Charizard
3x Reshiram
1x Sableye
2x Victini
I/S/S: 44
1x Master Ball
2x Nest Ball
2x Repeat Ball
4x Rare Candy
3x Poké Toy
4x Pluspower
4x Blue Flute
2x Red Flute
2x Yellow flute
4x Fluffy Tail
3x Brycen
3x Steven
Energy: 16
12x Fire Energy
4x DCE
Strategy:
It's Reshiplosion... I use Victini + Fluffly Tail for the ultimate pick up on Reshiram. Sableye to get stuff back, and the Flute/Ball are the engine. Brycen for what ever I feel like. Sableye + Master Ball for the ultimate search.
Well, I liked Reshiplosion a lot, so I built another one.
Pokemon: 14
3-2-3 Charizard
3x Reshiram
1x Sableye
2x Victini
I/S/S: 44
1x Master Ball
2x Nest Ball
2x Repeat Ball
4x Rare Candy
3x Poké Toy
4x Pluspower
4x Blue Flute
2x Red Flute
2x Yellow flute
4x Fluffy Tail
3x Brycen
3x Steven
Energy: 16
12x Fire Energy
4x DCE
Strategy:
It's Reshiplosion... I use Victini + Fluffly Tail for the ultimate pick up on Reshiram. Sableye to get stuff back, and the Flute/Ball are the engine. Brycen for what ever I feel like. Sableye + Master Ball for the ultimate search.
RE: Back to Basics: Decks
So a few other people and I at our locals brought this up and it caught on. It's fun and refreshing to have all these new strategies that seem much more balanced. The other day we decided to do a tournament with these cards. The top 2 decklists were as followed.
First Place: Vapor Spread (Vaporeon/Nidoking)
Pokemon: 22
4-3 Vaporeon
1 Umbreon EX
3-3 Nidoking
2-2 Bronzong
1 Jirachi EX
1 Mesprit *
1 Uxie *
1 Celebi *
Trainers: 26
2 Poisoned Field
3 Steven
4 Sabrina
1 Brycen
3 Rare Candy
3 Fluffy Tail
1 Max Revive
4 Blue Flute
2 Nest Ball
2 Repeat Ball
1 Master Ball
Energy: 12
9- Water Energy
1- Special Dark Energy
2- Multi Energy
Second Place(me): Klinklang
Pokemon: 19
3-2-3 Klinklang
2-2 Bronzong
4 Luvdisc
1 Uxie *
1 Celebi *
1 Kyurem
Trainer: 30
4 Sabrina
4 Steven
2 Dryden
1 Brycen
3 Rare Candy
3 Fluffy Tail
2 Poke Toy
2 Yellow Flute
2 X-Attack
1 Max Revive
3 Nest Ball
2 Repeat Ball
1 Master Ball
Energy: 11
4 Special Metal Energy
3 Multi Energy
3 Cyclone Energy
1 Broken Scramble Energy
There were a total of 16 players. All the decks were:
5 Vaporeon Spread
3 Klinklang
3 Charizard
2 Golem
1 Venusaur EX
1 Magnezone
1 Ditto Ex
So a few other people and I at our locals brought this up and it caught on. It's fun and refreshing to have all these new strategies that seem much more balanced. The other day we decided to do a tournament with these cards. The top 2 decklists were as followed.
First Place: Vapor Spread (Vaporeon/Nidoking)
Pokemon: 22
4-3 Vaporeon
1 Umbreon EX
3-3 Nidoking
2-2 Bronzong
1 Jirachi EX
1 Mesprit *
1 Uxie *
1 Celebi *
Trainers: 26
2 Poisoned Field
3 Steven
4 Sabrina
1 Brycen
3 Rare Candy
3 Fluffy Tail
1 Max Revive
4 Blue Flute
2 Nest Ball
2 Repeat Ball
1 Master Ball
Energy: 12
9- Water Energy
1- Special Dark Energy
2- Multi Energy
Second Place(me): Klinklang
Pokemon: 19
3-2-3 Klinklang
2-2 Bronzong
4 Luvdisc
1 Uxie *
1 Celebi *
1 Kyurem
Trainer: 30
4 Sabrina
4 Steven
2 Dryden
1 Brycen
3 Rare Candy
3 Fluffy Tail
2 Poke Toy
2 Yellow Flute
2 X-Attack
1 Max Revive
3 Nest Ball
2 Repeat Ball
1 Master Ball
Energy: 11
4 Special Metal Energy
3 Multi Energy
3 Cyclone Energy
1 Broken Scramble Energy
There were a total of 16 players. All the decks were:
5 Vaporeon Spread
3 Klinklang
3 Charizard
2 Golem
1 Venusaur EX
1 Magnezone
1 Ditto Ex
RE: Back to Basics: Decks
How did Ditto EX work?
How did Ditto EX work?
RE: Back to Basics: Decks
It basically used Ditto EX to use Venusaur EX's attack plus it used a Metagross EX and Umbreon EX for their attacks as well. It used Advantage Energy plus any basic energy will be different than Ditto's type. The pokemon line was something along the lines of
4 Ditto EX
4 Venusaur EX
1 Umbreon EX
1 Metagross EX
2 Smeargle
1 Uxie *
1 Celebi *
1 Azelf *
It basically used Ditto EX to use Venusaur EX's attack plus it used a Metagross EX and Umbreon EX for their attacks as well. It used Advantage Energy plus any basic energy will be different than Ditto's type. The pokemon line was something along the lines of
4 Ditto EX
4 Venusaur EX
1 Umbreon EX
1 Metagross EX
2 Smeargle
1 Uxie *
1 Celebi *
1 Azelf *
RE: Back to Basics: Decks
Well, I think Vaporeon deserves a Tier 1 spot. I have a Vaporeon/Nidoking deck and it is very fast and consistant.
edit: And how could Ditto swarm even work? It's an EX with only 70 health. They would only have to KO 3 to win, and he cant even attack Turn 1.
DawnOfXatu said:
Well, I think Vaporeon deserves a Tier 1 spot. I have a Vaporeon/Nidoking deck and it is very fast and consistant.
edit: And how could Ditto swarm even work? It's an EX with only 70 health. They would only have to KO 3 to win, and he cant even attack Turn 1.
RE: Back to Basics: Decks
Nidoking/Vaporeon falls under Nidoking decks.
As for Ditto, you don't attack T1, but after that you swing for 60+ a turn, I don't think any other deck can do that. That means that everything is a 2HKO for Ditto and you can swarm three of them pretty easily. So yeah Ditto can work.
After seeing all of the Nidoking/Vaporeon decks out here it is definitely Tier 1, which is good to see, since that is the most synergy that I see out of all of the cards.
Nidoking/Vaporeon falls under Nidoking decks.
As for Ditto, you don't attack T1, but after that you swing for 60+ a turn, I don't think any other deck can do that. That means that everything is a 2HKO for Ditto and you can swarm three of them pretty easily. So yeah Ditto can work.
After seeing all of the Nidoking/Vaporeon decks out here it is definitely Tier 1, which is good to see, since that is the most synergy that I see out of all of the cards.
RE: Back to Basics: Decks
Anybody have new ideas with Goldon Bonds?
Anybody have new ideas with Goldon Bonds?