Standard Delete

[neoshai]

Delete

 

[Jedidr]

How much would this be? I'm on a budget of $60

 

[Jedidr]

So instead of the 2-2 line of spritzee and aromatisse and of course the other cards not in standard what would you recommend? I want a good deck that's also standard.

 

[PokémonRanger2319]

There are two Mega Gardevoirs so for the moment I will assume you are using the brilliant arrow one.
To make this standard, @Jedidr:
-2 Spritzee
-2 Aromatisse
-2 Super Scoop Up

+3 Fairy Drop
+1 Sycamore
+2 Xerneas BREAK
Fairy drop is nice for making Gardevoir stick around longer, preserving energy.

Other than that, it looks nice for a budget deck!

 

[TCG_Destory]

If I were to build a budget Brilliant Arrow Mega Gardevoir deck, I would probably go for something like this:

Pokémon - 12
4 Gardevoir EX (PCL or STS)
2 M Gardevoir EX PCL
1 M Gardevoir EX STS
4 Xerneas XY
1 Xerneas BREAK STS

Trainer - 37
3 Fairy Garden XY

1 Brock's Grit EVO
1 Hex Maniac AOR
2 Lysandre FLF
3 N FCO
4 Professor Sycamore XY

3 Escape Rope PLS
2 Fairy Drop FCO
4 Gardevoir Spirit Link PCL
3 Mega Turbo ROS
3 Trainers' Mail ROS
4 Ultra Ball DEX
4 VS Seeker PHF

Energy - 11
11 Fairy Energy XY

Estimated cost: $185 CAD or $141 USD

A little bit pricey but I do think this list is pretty decent for being one that does not run Shaymin-EX.

If budget or available cards are a problem, you can cut on VS Seeker and Trainers' Mail cards, to add in one more Fairy Drop, another N and maybe a third Brilliant Arrow Mega Gardevoir, but three Trainer's Mail and four VS Seeker seem to be required consistency, especially when Shaymin-EX is absent from this list. Pokémon Fan Club as a one-of could work as well.

 

[TCG_Destory]

Mega Gardevoir, in the upcoming BREAKthrough-on format, I feel could be a contender, because as of now, it seems that we will lose Lysandre, which means near-infinite time to use Geomancy if a Pokémon Catcher is not hit, all of the necessary cards stay (Gardevoir-EX and Mega Gardevoir-EX were reprinted in Generations and Xerneas will remain legal through Steam Siege, as well as Xerneas BREAK that was introduced in that set) and it looks like this is one of few cards that will be able to defeat the bulkiest Pokémon-GX in one hit.

In case you want my idea of a BREAKthrough-on Mega Gardevoir list with cards from BREAKthrough to Sun and Moon 1, I came up with a decklist for that:

Pokémon - 12
4 Gardevoir EX STS
3 M Gardevoir EX PCL
4 Xerneas XY
1 Xerneas BREAK STS

Trainer - 35
3 Fairy Garden XY

1 Brock's Grit EVO
3 N FCO
4 Professor Sycamore XY
3 Skyla BCR
1 Pokémon Fan Club FLF

2 Exp. Share NXD
3 Fairy Drop FCO
4 Gardevoir Spirit Link PCL
2 Nest Ball SM
2 Pokémon Catcher XY-sk
3 Switch BW
4 Ultra Ball DEX

Energy - 13
13 Fairy Energy

Even if Lysandre gets reprinted, it is by now certain that, with losing Shaymin-EX, Trainer's Mail and VS Seeker, the format will change to become much slower.
This is a rather slow deck, so it will for sure beneficiate from this change of pace.

 

[TheGuardian118]

Just thought it worth mentioning that there isn't anything official saying the 2018 rotation will be Breakthrough-current for next years standard. While I think that's a good guess, it could be off a set or two.

Also, just because standard rotates yearly doesn't mean you can't play expanded. Expanded changes much less frequently, and still has decent tournament support, at least at most of the large ones like Regionals. Pretty much all card games have a rotation. Pokémon actually has a very small ban list compared to some other games, and calling something a ban when it was really just rotation is a little misleading.

Even if you don't whish to play expanded you can trade the Shaymin or Hoopa off to someone who does. Hoopa is inexpensive so I would really recommend grabbing one for this deck. If you want to play with a larger card pool, then just play expanded and ignore standard.

Ok, now for my deck idea for this. See if the new Dragonair from Sun and Moon would help this. It has an attack that allows you unlimited energy attachments the following turn. I don't know how competitive it will be, but it might be fun to try it.

 

[Fayld]

Mega Gardevoir, in the upcoming BREAKthrough-on format, I feel could be a contender, because as of now, it seems that we will lose Lysandre, which means near-infinite time to use Geomancy if a Pokémon Catcher is not hit, all of the necessary cards stay (Gardevoir-EX and Mega Gardevoir-EX were reprinted in Generations and Xerneas will remain legal through Steam Siege, as well as Xerneas BREAK that was introduced in that set) and it looks like this is one of few cards that will be able to defeat the bulkiest Pokémon-GX in one hit.

In case you want my idea of a BREAKthrough-on Mega Gardevoir list with cards from BREAKthrough to Sun and Moon 1, I came up with a decklist for that:

Pokémon - 12
4 Gardevoir EX STS
3 M Gardevoir EX PCL
4 Xerneas XY
1 Xerneas BREAK STS

Trainer - 35
3 Fairy Garden XY

1 Brock's Grit EVO
3 N FCO
4 Professor Sycamore XY
3 Skyla BCR
1 Pokémon Fan Club FLF

2 Exp. Share NXD
3 Fairy Drop FCO
4 Gardevoir Spirit Link PCL
2 Nest Ball SM
2 Pokémon Catcher XY-sk
3 Switch BW
4 Ultra Ball DEX

Energy - 13
13 Fairy Energy

Even if Lysandre gets reprinted, it is by now certain that, with losing Shaymin-EX, Trainer's Mail and VS Seeker, the format will change to become much slower.
This is a rather slow deck, so it will for sure beneficiate from this change of pace.

I like this list (if I read correctly, you were gunning for BT+ format deck list and this looks great). I would make one change though. I would drop 1 Fairy Energy and add in 1 Oranguru. This deck can fly through the cards in your hand and having Oranguru chilling on the bench can help a lot.

 

[swan]

1x dragonite ex -pull up- (place holder for Hoopa ex, 3 ex searches again not that cheap, got the dragonite ex from my little brother)

unown is pretty cheap drawpower that combos with dragonite-EX and the suggested Oranguru, as well as supporters in general. Ace trainer is also a good 1-of (more reliable than lillma thingy) considering that you want to setup with xerneas and will not be taking the first price.

 

[Jerememe]

Maybe instead of Max elixir you can run mega turbo. Last time I checked their not too expensive and they hit 100% of the time. Great card. BTW, 4 evosoda is WAY too much. Maybe cut it to 1 or 2.

 

[TCG_Destory]

This deck is, indeed, not too slow if you play against rogues/casual tournaments in which cases you will opt for getting 7/8 Energy on the field to start getting one shots after your opponent got three turns to play, as you have time. However, if you play against competitive decks, you can get outsped (think Despair Ray, Mega Rayquaza, Rainbow Road and Turbo Dark), and missing a Geomancy hurts, as you already need some ramping time. If you want to play Brilliant Arrow competitively, you will need an efficient way to get Xerneas + 2 Gardevoir to use Geomancy on them on the first turn you can do so, I would say at least 70% of games. I have to admit $140 sounds expensive, but many of the cards that cost a good amount of money are staples you can use in most decks (for example, Trainers' Mail and VS Seeker, which make for about $50 of the cost for the two playsets). And even after they rotate, they will be usable in Expanded. The list I gave, by the way, was an example. If you are tight on budget, then changing the most expensive cards can be a solution, and if you have it, Skyla makes up for some of the consistency not having Trainers' Mail/VS Seeker/Shaymin-EX makes you lose. However, I have to remind you that to seriously play the Pokémon Trading Card game, you will need to invest into it. I consider the $50 spent on a Shaymin-EX to be well spent, if your decks get a lot of benefits from playing it. Besides, it will stay usable in Expanded for quite a while.

As for a remark I got due to talking of the rotation, I have a reason to believe (even to possibly assume) it will be BREAKthrough-on.
It is that the rotations for the Standard format always have the start of a set block/series for a cutting point.
For the 2012/2013 season, the rotation was Black and White-on. And then:
The 2013/2014 season was Next Destinies-on
2014/2015 was Boundaries Crossed-on
2015/2016 was XY-on
2016/2017 is Primal Clash-on
We had three ORAS sets, then BREAKthrough started the four-set BREAK block (five sets actually have BREAK cards but Evolutions is a set on its own, that only halfway adds to the block). Therefore, I think it only makes sense for BREAKthrough to be the next cutting point.

 

[swan]

1)

Most pokemon decks I come across are way slower than mine, even when using cards like Shaymin ex. But then again, that's pokemon tcg in a nutshell. It's a setup game for turns upon turns before decks actually do something.

@neoshai, from your ptcgo examples, I believe you to have a low elo. Meaning that you will mainly only come across players who do badly, this doesn't prevent them from owning shaymin-EX, ironically. An actually good yveltal or darkrai deck should be hitting you on their 2nd turn, and maybe 40-50% of the time (when they go second) on their first turn. A good mega rayquaza deck should run straight through you, setting up just as fast, or faster; however the difference is that mega ray will be OHKOing you. From a competitive standpoint, I have to disagree with you about the speed of the game. (although it might start to slow down a little once EX is fully rotated, however this doesn't seem to be the case looking at the sm2 GXs being announced)
2)

I've also noticed that (in standard while playing online) that I'm mostly the first one to hit a price, also the second one and depending against what I'm playing they only take a price after I switch to my gardevoir and they've hit it twice.

My other point, if you switch into Mgardy and start attacking before your opponent has even setup, how many energies are on the board and how much damage are you dealing???
3)

Tbh I don't want to use any SuMo cards in this deck. I do want to move it along to the latest set before SuMo but I was short on cards hence I pushed in the other trainers at random from SuMo.

Unown isn't SM; oranguru was just an example of a card it works well with. Also, why don't you want to use any sm cards?

 

[TCG_Destory]

Actually funny enough I haven't lost against Mega rayquaza yet, tho I do have to say that all my matches against it have been incredibly close. Last match I got against it was my closest match against any deck so far. It was 1-6 and I ended up getting the win. Pure luck really.

Tbh I'm not on a budget. Hell, if I want to I go to my bedroom right now, take 2000 bucks and slam it against my pc screen (figure of speaking, I don't actually have 2k in my bedroom XD). I don't see how any normal person can say that 50 bucks for a shaymin would be well spent.
If there were no such thing as rotation then maybe. I don't think people really understand, especially since most play competitively, meaning they follow meta and for most people I've come across playing the game (or any tcg and even a lot in online games), they don't really know what to do with their money, on top of that most still live with mommy and daddy and have little to really worry about.
I don't want to put a lot of money in a deck (even one I really want to play, like this gardevoir deck) if it'll suddenly become completely unplayable.
That's where yugioh was a bit different with it having a banlist but even so the meta was the only thing really playable but at least they didn't completely say no to your deck just because it got older.
When I started playing pokemon I started playing a dusknoir deck, it was definitely not one of the greatest things out there but I found the mechanic/playstyle really interesting. Not knowing about the rotations at the time, only after a year or so I learned about the rotation and all the hard effort I've put into the deck became null because wonder by wonder, I wasn't allowed to play it anymore. So all the time and effort I put into the deck was all for nothing.
This right here is what holds me back to really get into pokemon. It's this right here why pokemon cards in general have no value to me and thus I can't see a good card such as Shaymin as 50 bucks. I can see it as 5 but beyond that is a no-no.

The only good thing about gardevoir here is that 1 it's cheap and even after it gets pushed to expanded and beyond, it'll still look beautiful in my collectors binder.

First off, as you are talking of the expanded format yourself, you should be aknowledging that the expensive cards that will help you in those six months to come of Primal Clash-on metagame (for the Standard format) will stay useful after the rotation, since Expanded leagues exist. This means that your cards never really lose all of their value and playability, you can still get use out of them. I tried Mega Evolution decks on PTCGonline in the Standard format without Shaymin-EX (since it is not part of my digital collection) but almost everytime, with the exceptions being when I drew really well, they have proven to lack a good part of the consistency and speed they would have were at least two (or maybe even one) of them to have been in the list. As a side note, if you run Shaymin-EX, you look at an Ultra Ball in an entirely different way. Dead drawing becomes harded. If you are scared of them getting Lysandre-Knocked Out, or of running out of Bench space, then you really should just consider using the Despair Ray version of Mega Gardevoir as a one-of, in order to get rid of them. Then, using Super Rod, you can shuffle them into your deck for an eventual second use. I am not saying you should/must have four in you deck in any way. (The Brilliant Arrow deck works best with two or three in my experience). What I am saying is that one Shaymin-EX would be a great way to speed up your deck and make it more consistent, and you can use it in basically any deck you would like to build, and even in Expanded after it rotates. If you really do not want to spend this much money on one card, then I suggest you try some other draw supporting Pokémon like Octillery, especially given the high amount of turns Mega Gardevoir might take to get set up.

Secondly, I am a normal person; I do think Shaymin-EX's price/apparent value seems strange for one card, but with the exception of a few decks, it is very hard to do well in competitive play without it. Its price is justified by its competitive value and demand, the reason I consider it a good investment is that it will improve so many of your deck, and as a result, you should be more successful in tournaments and earn more prizes, and possibly even rank well at league events and gain CP towards the big tournaments. If you are wanting to play in competitive without spending oddly high amounts on single cards, I suggest you wait until the BREAKthrough-on format (the cutting point being my speculation), where a fairly budget Mega Gardevoir deck, as I've previously explained, could do very well, given the speed of and the cards that seemingly will not be in that format. If you are looking to play casually, I think you can do well without Shaymin-EX, but that this card will still advantage you significantly.

 

[swan]

The reason why I don't want to run SuMo cards or reasons, is because it goes past gardevoir. Whenever the rotation hits that pushes her to expanded or beyond, I'll only have the SuMo cards left in the deck ... kind of pointless.

Ok, so how does the fact that SM cards are going to stay in format for longer stop you from playing them? When gardevoir is rotated out, the SM cards will still have standard format competitive value and hence be easier to sell off, (or if you find another interesting deck they'll still have value to you). I don't understand this reasoning at all?!? The whole deck will be "kind of pointless" when gardevoir rotates whether or not it contains SM cards.

Oh, and elo is the ranking system on the versus ladder that is used to create matchups between more evenly leveled players based off of their wins and loses.

 

[Asmer]

This is why I hate competitive players btw, I've yet to come across a competitive player who actually put a lot of effort into his/her deck.

I was going to stay out of this whole mess, but this line actually angered me.
Now, I will say that while I understand your view of the "pay to win" ideologies that a lot of competitive players seem use, hating the entire group of competitive players because this behavior is what we would call, "hatred of a stereotype", which is a completely incorrect way to go about things. One of the biggest facts about the Competitive Meta I feel you miss is the fact that the Meta simply does not exist without some form of innovation, especially in a game like Pokemon TCG. We've had competitive formats on multiple occasions where Rogue decks were regularly seen (2012-2013 Black and White format had things from Tool Drop to Round to FluffyChomp to more competitive things like VirGen and TDK and Landorus Mewtwo and RayEels and just plethoras of decks). All of these competitive ideas have to come from someone or a collective group of individuals first in order to even remotely be successful or recognized.

So, if you've honestly never encountered someone who has never done anything that is not a copy/paste, then that means a few things:
1. Your standards are much too high when it comes to determining "effort".
2. You have a lack of understanding of what "effort" is.
3. The people you are surrounded with are unfortunately all extremely non-innovative and in this regard, okay, I give you the benefit of the doubt.

As I stated before, I normally don't try to rant about things like this, but considering where the thread already is and considering that I am a competitive player, an article writer, and an avid lover of really, really bad and silly ideas, I found that offensive. Granted, I probably took this way out of context, but I'll still stick to stating my opinion, nonetheless.

-Asmer

 

[Asmer]

So I take it that you're one of the few that finds something interesting while browsing cards or opening packs and starts from scrap?
Or that you go with something you actually like and start from scrap there and continue with that for years no matter where the format leads you. Sadly enough not possible in pokemon as a competitive player, slightly more possible as a casual depending on what the people you play with agree upon.
For example, a number of people at my locals don't really care if I play my old dusknoir deck, even if I were to put in newer cards. There are a few (maybe 2 or 3) that will say straight up no to it because it's against the "rules" (with which they mean the format system), they stay with standard and/or expanded.
But anyway I'm dwadling off ...

How can "my standards" be to high when it comes to determining effort. You either copy/paste (so to speak) or you start from scrap and everything comes from yourself. There's nothing in between.
Problem with a lot of tcg is that most decks will always go in the same direction. For example my gardevoir deck here, I started from gardevoir herself, looking at fairy pokemon to see what I can use and everything else that eventually got added where things I just came across and still it ended up pretty much the same as all the other gardevoir decks out there
It's hard to find a tcg or make a deck that doesn't do this.

But to answer your question, no, in my area I haven't really encountered a competitive person that actually puts effort into the making of his/her deck.
And by that I mean not just in pokemon but in all tcg I play in general and those that actually play competitively in tournaments, meaning I can't say to much about pokemon cuz ever since I restarted I've been kind of avoiding all tournaments. I like to attend those tbh, just play along, I don't really care whether I win or lose.
I always thought for yugioh for example, there were so many people, I'll be able to play against a lot of different decks but no, that's not how tcg works. Same with vanguard and well, haven't been to a big tournament or championship of pokemon yet but if it's as much fun as what I come across online, it'll be thrilling ... >.>
Reasons why I know that they don't put effort into are as followed:
1 I know the players personally
2 a lot of them don't really hide it
3 they buy decks in completion from others (mostly tournament winners that get rid of it cuz of what's coming out or what I've seen multiple times, they quit after it)

This is why I like newbies and children, they just take what they like and go with that. Eventually however they all fall in one of 2 holes, they either give up or become so molded that even if they aren't competitive their decks start to look like it ... like mine. Nowadays I put to much thought into things, so cards that I really like end up not being played because they're "not good enough". And I honestly hate that attitude of mine.

But anyway, if there's anything else you'd like to know, feel free to ask. "You who normally rant about these things" (that's what you said yourself )

PS: might want to wear protective gear to go around your daily life, if something not meant to be offensive is already offending you. Like seriously what's this world turning into? Everything is racist and everyone is offended by everything >.>

...I'm going to PM you to not flood this thread.

-Asmer

 

[swan]

...I'm going to PM you to not flood this thread.

Can you invite me to that also, as I'd really like to make a few points myself, which are however unrelated to the general topic of this thread.

 

[swan]

Along the lines of the topic of this thread, I'm pretty sure Mgardevoir-EX PRC could do very well in the format (even on a budget) moving forward, due to its ability to start taking OHKOs, which the format should start moving towards with the release of tapu koko (that thing will wreck every 2HKO deck in the format).
Mgardevoir-EX STS remains an interesting tech that gave the deck a brief hype revival back when STS was released. Other techs like xerneas break (mainly for its solid hp, but can also be an attacker) and a possible giratina-EX can complement this deck. Giratina-EX can deal with those cheap DCE reliant decks where Mgardevoir's overkill amounts of power become irrelevant. (On a side note dragonair is an option that combos with giratina (DDE synergy), but then again, xerneas already exists) This problem can also be in part solved by Fairy drop, turning your opponent's 2HKOs to 3HKOs, although as I said above that probably isn't going to be so common after the next set drops.

 

[Fayld]

Not to go too far off topic, but I honestly thought that tweaking TCG_Destroyer's list by removing some cards you think are too expensive / not available + adding some of the cards you like better would have been a good idea. I did something funky like that by using Lucky Helmet to help with the draw engine because I didn't want to play the Shaymins in the deck. Add the Lucky Helmet + some Mega Turbos and you have a cheaper draw engine + energy acceleration engine that can get you by against decent players with good decks. That won't help you against good / great players with great decks because it will, in fact, be too slow (I have a variation of this deck without the Shaymins).

Thing is, I am not sure that is what you are gunning for with this list anyway. Same thing as that's not really what I am gunning for when I roll out my Darkrai / Togekiss deck. I know it isn't going to beat the best decks, but if everything goes right, I at least have a shot against them. When (and by when I mean 70% of the time) I don't get the perfect T2 Togekiss with 2 Darkrai down and somehow spam 6 darkness energy onto the board to wreak havoc, I know I am probably in trouble against the best decks. It is truly as simple as that. But the goal is to enjoy the deck while playing something outside the box.

 

[Fayld]

Along the lines of the topic of this thread, I'm pretty sure Mgardevoir-EX PRC could do very well in the format (even on a budget) moving forward, due to its ability to start taking OHKOs, which the format should start moving towards with the release of tapu koko (that thing will wreck every 2HKO deck in the format).
Mgardevoir-EX STS remains an interesting tech that gave the deck a brief hype revival back when STS was released. Other techs like xerneas break (mainly for its solid hp, but can also be an attacker) and a possible giratina-EX can complement this deck. Giratina-EX can deal with those cheap DCE reliant decks where Mgardevoir's overkill amounts of power become irrelevant. (On a side note dragonair is an option that combos with giratina (DDE synergy), but then again, xerneas already exists) This problem can also be in part solved by Fairy drop, turning your opponent's 2HKOs to 3HKOs, although as I said above that probably isn't going to be so common after the next set drops.

I have tried the Giratina variant. Perhaps I am simply not good enough, but I found that it did not work and it didn't work in spectacular fashion LOL!!!! The Mega Turbos are far more reliable IMO.