Discussion Diancie no longer ran in Gardevoir GX lists?

Duo

Duo

RIP Nessa 2023
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Assuming other people also watch google on Youtube, I noticed that the top 2 lists at Hartford did not run even a single copy of Diancie. Now, I can't say for certain that this means that no one plays Diancie in Gardevoir GX anymore, but since we don't get insight on anything but the top 8 lists on the website, it makes me doubt my own card choices quite a bit.

I personally still am running 2 copies of Diancie in my list because no other card leads to greater consistency. It's not only consistency in terms of evolution, but it's consistency in terms of thinning your deck.

With either Alolan Vulpix or Sylveon GX, if your search gets N'd, you did not affect your deck state whatsoever and your odds of drawing into other resources that you don't need at the moment remains exactly the same. Playing Diancie, each turn after I attack and get N'd or play N myself, I have lower and lower odds of seeing cards I don't want to see since they've already been put into play. This applies to any draw power outside of N, but I'm using N as an example since the other 2 options, Alolan Vulpix & Sylveon, basically revolve around whether or not an N is played.

Most Gardevoir players I talk to when I ask them about Diancie say "it's a waste of energy." I don't really understand that line of logic when I see Sylveon GX's Magical Ribbon getting N'd, then your opponent taking a 2 prize KO on it later as the same "waste" of energy. Diancie is the only support Pokemon in Gardevoir that, when in play, guarantees that your game state will advance every turn. I also combo this with a Super Rod, so any excess energy used on retreating or Pokemon that I want to be searched out by Diancie can be shuffled back into the deck. I also run 2 float stone like a Sylveon list in order to stand a chance at retreating for free. It does come up. (I can't even imagine not running any float stone since you never have a Guzma pivot if you don't).

All this being said, I am considering the Sylveon GX build myself simply for the Plea GX, but I don't like that it sacrifices the consistency of both Diancie and a 2/2 Octillery line in order to get it done. In the handful of test games I've done with Sylveon GX before, I usually am sitting on a Sylveon GX in my active and a whole lot of Ralts on my bench because I keep getting N'd to Pallet Town and back.

To be clear, I'm not trying to say "Gardevoir didn't win Hartford cause no one ran Diancie lol ggz." I'm genuinely curious as to why some of the top players in the game don't run it. Were they simply testing to see if they prefered other builds? Were they even satisfied with the outcomes of their decks?

As much as I enjoy deck building, I really just want to settle on a list for a while and just stop changing cards every week.
 
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I personally prefer with Sylveon. There is no need for a 2-2 Octillery line if you have Sylveon. A 1-1 will get you buy just fine. Maybe they didn't run it because they saw they never used it, or that they could set up just fine. I'd still run atleast 1 if anything.
 
Ultimatey I think the problem is that diance's benfit, while reliable and consistent, is just so much smaller compared to the potentoial A.Vulpix and Sylveon bring that on the whole Diance doesn't out way them even with the drawbacks associated with with Sylveon and A.Vulpix.

Diance is nice because it can't be disrupted and goes straight on to the bench but you only get a single card and that card has to be an evolution pokemon which limits you to just 4 searchable targets (Kirlia, Garde, Gallade, Octillery). A.Vulpix on the other hand can get the same cards but also gets basics (most notably getting Ralts and Tapu Lele, two very important cards). That alone is huge not to mention you get 2 cards instead of 1. And Sylveon gets 3 of any card (though at the cost of taking up much more deck space and is a 2 prizer) and bring Plea GX givethe deck a very powerful tool to disrupt the opponent. Even just the A. Vulpix is much more flexible while also getting more card advantage.

But the biggest drawback is supposedly your opponent N'ing you when you use A.Vulpix or Sylveon which is just a fear that is much more overvalued then it should be. It goes without saying your opponent won't always have N at the ready when you go for Beacon or Magical Ribbon so sometimes you do just get to keep the cards you search giveing you massive set up. But really the big kicker is getting N'd isn't bad. You haven't taken any prizes so you opponent N'ing you means you get a fresh hand of 6 cards. If you play your hand down to one and then your Magical Ribbon your opponent either lets you take the 3 exact cards you want or play N and give you 5 free cards. It's win-win and Diance doesn't exert the pressure to force that kinda of situation from your opponent.
 
The situation could change when Lusamine comes out, but as it stands, every early-game N is one less late-game N. Even better if they have to bench a Lele to acquire said N.
 
I see. That makes a lot of sense now that you guys explain it in a different way other than "it's a waste of energy."

I'll probably go back to the sylveon route for a while again just because it's the best natural solution for dealing with Metagross.

Thanks for the logic guys. I didn't even consider less late game N's.
 
Interesting... my experience using Alolan Vulpix has been most disappointing. Not just in this deck, but in general. N is the only risk unique to it/Sylveon-GX and not Diancie but the shared risk of an early Guzma KO is still a concern. I am not saying that what I have seen is proof that everyone else is wrong and I am somehow right. XP I do wonder if, were we able to track such data, we'd find that most folks doing well with Alolan Vulpix and/or Sylveon-GX are the ones where the opponent just can't spare the N.

Rooie said:
The situation could change when Lusamine comes out, but as it stands, every early-game N is one less late-game N. Even better if they have to bench a Lele to acquire said N.
Click to expand...

While true, I don't think this is as positive as you think; unless you're fortunate and can re-draw/search out what you needed without losing much momentum, your opponent is less likely to need that late game N. For that matter, some decks will have spares, regardless.
 
My friend Pokemaster26 has been over it and he doesn't use Sylveon GX. Just a couple Alolan Vulpix and he's won some regionals with that set up.
 
I also run 2 copies of Diancie and it really works out great for me in most situations I would have get N'd. I also run a Alolan Vulpix, but not two because I prefer starting with Diancie, and Alolan Vulpix is a huge risk with everyone running 3-4 N's.
 
they have different jobs in a way, diance is consistency, sylveon is disruption (or else) as you said, diance guarantees the evolution, and is only one prize. that's good.

sylveon however guarantees you any three cards, it can be a rare candy, a gardevoir, and then another gardevoir/candy if you have the last one in your hand, or a sycamore if you can drop it, or a float stone or choice band you'll need, or an octillery to evolve, anything. if let be, it provides MUCH more consistency than diance, if N'd, your rival just spent a very powerful late-game resource just to "reset" your hand, and you still have all your searches, ultra balls, sycamores and N's to dig in your turn, really all he did was bring your hand to the same level of any other player with any other deck.

not to mention, sylveon has the GX attack which with a guzma can dismantle his 2 heaviest attackers for even more disruption.
 
Alolan Vulpix- pretty much guaranteed to get out because you just need it and an energy to retreat (assuming no 2 retreat Oranguru) and you get it out pretty easy plus it only needs 1-2 spots for itself. it results are pretty good but well.. n
Diance- good chance to get it out, the results are okay but if it gets out it is guaranteed that the card isn't N-ed away. it takes around 4 cards to run a good Diance engine (2 Diance + 2 float stone)
Sylveon GX- good chance to get out because it is essentially a basic with Eevee's ability, its attack is incredibly high impact if it hits, 3 cards is just soooooo good (search your deck for even 1 card would be broken on a supporter!) so your attack has the impact level of 3 supporters!, the downside is of course N because it just disappears. it does take up 6+ card in your deck meaning it will lower your spaces for techs and other constancy cards.

Personally I like Sylveon GX the most because of the fact that if i get Bridgette and Sylveon GX on the first turn i am 99% guaranteed the win. plus if it or Vulpix fails it is might as well be shuffle your hand into your deck and draw 6 cards and that is what Cleffafa was used for around 10 years ago
 
pikachuuuu101 said:
Diance- good chance to get it out, the results are okay but if it gets out it is guaranteed that the card isn't N-ed away. it takes around 4 cards to run a good Diance engine (2 Diance + 2 float stone)
Click to expand...

Guess I've been doing it wrong. I was using Fairy Garden, and even if I wasn't, Diance is kind of meant to go down swinging. Not that my opponent's would always go that route, but if they didn't, decent chance I can use Fairy Spring to attach an extra Energy and manually reterat.

...

This is the part where someone chimes in and explains how I really was doing it wrong.
 
I used it in a Gardevoir deck I played for four games and while that isn't a good sample size, the problem I was having with it was I never used it and when I did, I was always behind. I almost always preferred to use Alolan Vulpix because I could still grab a Tapu Lele-GX if I didn't start that great. Sure the two Pokemon I grabbed could be N'ed away, I would almost always want the new had whereas with Diancie, my opponent has no reason to N me.

The other great thing is you can put a Energy on another Pokemon and if it will take you two turns anyway to get down two Stage 2 Pokemon, you might as well go with Alolan Vulpix and get more cards out of the deck.
 
Honestly I think Diance and AVulpix are good and both have their merits. I think it's just a preference. I personally think Diance is more consistent but Gardevoir runs great with AVulpix and a split between the two. I think Sylveon GX is too clunky, however.
 
I think this is because there is more focus on keeping Gardy as your Active and always attacking then being set up quicker. You know, being on the offense.
 
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