I'm curious what people think about a deck built around Seismitoad EX that doesn't use Lasers/Virbank. I think with those cards the strategy is a good one with Flare Tools, Enchanced Hammer, Crushing Hammer, Xeroisc and Quaking Punch. Without them I'm not sure there's enough damage being done to get 6 prizes consistently. And Lasers and Virbank will probably be rotated after this season. Thoughts? Experience running this deck?
Does Toad work without Lasers / Virbank?
- Thread starter intotheblue
- Start date
RE: Does Toad work without Lasers/Virbank?
The lasers and virbank just help get the extra damage. I feel with out them the deck can only do 50 damage a turn. And in most seismitoad EX decks you do run flare tools and some hammers.
The lasers and virbank just help get the extra damage. I feel with out them the deck can only do 50 damage a turn. And in most seismitoad EX decks you do run flare tools and some hammers.
RE: Does Toad work without Lasers/Virbank?
That's what I'm saying, I don't think 50 or 30 a turn is enough, even with all the other denial/disruption. Especially against Virizion, who has water resistance. But I haven't tested and wondered what people's experience has been.
That's what I'm saying, I don't think 50 or 30 a turn is enough, even with all the other denial/disruption. Especially against Virizion, who has water resistance. But I haven't tested and wondered what people's experience has been.
RE: Does Toad work without Lasers/Virbank?
I run Chairzard EX in my deck for that matchup in perticular. Wing attack+ muscle band+ laser bank= 190. You loose a turn of quaking punch but when played correctly it dosent hurt you that much.
I run Chairzard EX in my deck for that matchup in perticular. Wing attack+ muscle band+ laser bank= 190. You loose a turn of quaking punch but when played correctly it dosent hurt you that much.
GadgetJax
Traveling Storyteller and Card Faker
RE: Does Toad work without Lasers/Virbank?
The reason being that Seismitoad-EX has to rely on additional damage in order to actually leave an impact with the other effects. Even with a Muscle Band, Quaking Punch is still doing a measly 50 damage. Now, that isn't to say that the 'toad is bad, because beleive me, this guy should be banned...
intotheblue said:
The reason being that Seismitoad-EX has to rely on additional damage in order to actually leave an impact with the other effects. Even with a Muscle Band, Quaking Punch is still doing a measly 50 damage. Now, that isn't to say that the 'toad is bad, because beleive me, this guy should be banned...
RE: Does Toad work without Lasers/Virbank?
I've thought about adding a Mr Mime to be able to use Grenade Hammer for no cost, but I think Garbodor has a bigger impact on the game and they obviously don't work together. Or using Mountain Ring as the Stadium.
I've thought about adding a Mr Mime to be able to use Grenade Hammer for no cost, but I think Garbodor has a bigger impact on the game and they obviously don't work together. Or using Mountain Ring as the Stadium.
RE: Does Toad work without Lasers/Virbank?
Garbador is a better bet than Mr. Mime, the only reason you would need to use Grenade hammer would be to take out a big EX for the game winning KO. You want to be using quaking punch as much as you can. And for the stadium i would stick with Virbank becuse it helps you add alot of damage. Even if you do have to grenade hammer alot of seismitoad decks play one or two of the outraging dragons so you could just put the damage on those pokemon.
Garbador is a better bet than Mr. Mime, the only reason you would need to use Grenade hammer would be to take out a big EX for the game winning KO. You want to be using quaking punch as much as you can. And for the stadium i would stick with Virbank becuse it helps you add alot of damage. Even if you do have to grenade hammer alot of seismitoad decks play one or two of the outraging dragons so you could just put the damage on those pokemon.
RE: Does Toad work without Lasers/Virbank?
Seismitoad/Pyroar is very powerful and very real. I very much fear it as a deck because of Pyroar's high damage output and Seismitoad's item denial. Scary, scary things. The very stuff of nightmares.
Seismitoad/Pyroar is very powerful and very real. I very much fear it as a deck because of Pyroar's high damage output and Seismitoad's item denial. Scary, scary things. The very stuff of nightmares.
RE: Does Toad work without Lasers/Virbank?
LaserBank is what makes a pure Toad deck viable. Without it, a pure variant would just not have enough firepower to go through the opp's deck. Once these are rotated out, I think Toad will be much less present in the meta, as it would just lock you out for 2-3 turns while your opp sets up.
LaserBank is what makes a pure Toad deck viable. Without it, a pure variant would just not have enough firepower to go through the opp's deck. Once these are rotated out, I think Toad will be much less present in the meta, as it would just lock you out for 2-3 turns while your opp sets up.
RE: Does Toad work without Lasers/Virbank?
This was always my opinion of Toad before the release of Phantom Forces: a tech that just became a liability after your opponent got set up. I think it's a really good deck right now with Laserbank/Flare Tools/Hammers
Vom said:
This was always my opinion of Toad before the release of Phantom Forces: a tech that just became a liability after your opponent got set up. I think it's a really good deck right now with Laserbank/Flare Tools/Hammers
Grantm1999 made top 4 of a cities with a Seis variant without laserbank. It ran almost every type of disruption card available to it. The problem (in my opinion) is that if you whiff one turn of knocking an energy off something then you are screwed. The deck also has bad Metal (Cobalion EX knocks all the DCE off) and Yveltal (baby Yveltal screws with it) matchups. The deck isn't terrible but it really can not afford to lose to Yveltal and Metal.
Laserbank adds needed damage and creates more of a crisis for your opponent, especially with Garbodor. Locking down Items and Abilitieis whille also denying energy and getting high reteat coast Pokemon-EX stuck makes the deck surprisingly fast. In fact, Quaking Punch easily turns into a two-hit KO if the opponent doesn't have a means of retreat. With Head Ringer I was even able to beat a VirGen deck using this strategy, prevening the opponent from getting energy onto the field until I was far ah\ead on prizes.
It's essentially a must (unless you're running a more Energy disruptive variant). Sure, you're adding the extra damage, but it's having control of the Stadium in play that gives you an edge against Fairy and Metal decks. This is where the advantage comes in.
The reason I prefer having LaserBank rather than Crushing Hammers and Team Flare Grunt is due to consistency. Anything flippy is just inconsistent and a problem waiting to happen. Sure, it works great when you flip heads, but when you don't, you've got dead cards. Team Flare Grunt is a waste of a Supporter - I'd rather strengthen my Bench.
The reason I prefer having LaserBank rather than Crushing Hammers and Team Flare Grunt is due to consistency. Anything flippy is just inconsistent and a problem waiting to happen. Sure, it works great when you flip heads, but when you don't, you've got dead cards. Team Flare Grunt is a waste of a Supporter - I'd rather strengthen my Bench.
RE: Does Toad work without Lasers/Virbank?
Why are you attacking ANYTHING in VirGen with a Seismatoad? That thing should be as far away from active as possible. Reshiram is a good idea, but I don't expect to get 3 turns from attaching to Seismatoad EX to Grenade hammer (against VirGen) to set up only 30 damage on a Reshiram, its not worth it.
And Mr. Mime is honestly the best option IMO. You can't put in another stadium because of Bank and reshiram is only situational (and if not in play really hurts your game after using grenade hammer).
GadgetJax said:
Why are you attacking ANYTHING in VirGen with a Seismatoad? That thing should be as far away from active as possible. Reshiram is a good idea, but I don't expect to get 3 turns from attaching to Seismatoad EX to Grenade hammer (against VirGen) to set up only 30 damage on a Reshiram, its not worth it.
And Mr. Mime is honestly the best option IMO. You can't put in another stadium because of Bank and reshiram is only situational (and if not in play really hurts your game after using grenade hammer).
Seis is much better without Laserbank. A pure lock version is amazing. Its only bad matchup is Yveltal (Which the laser version loses to anyway). Against Metal and VirGen it is 50-50, and better if the VG doesn't run Manectric, and better v metal if they run less than two Cobalion EX. Everything else is a highly favorable matchup (Donphan, Aromatisse, Plasma, etc.). I lost in top 4 to metal with 2 cobalion because I drew bad in game 1, and I played badly game 2. I tested against a version with three cobalion and won every game (only like 2 or 3, with no dead draws or stupid hax on either side).
The only Pokemon I play are 4 seis, 2-2 Garb, and 1 Jirachi (MVP not as bad to start it as with other decks). Yveltal is a bad matchup and there's no way around that.
You don't need techs or extra poison damage if the opponent is stuck not able to do anything the whole game.
Fire attackers are unnecessary in pure lock Seis.
The only Pokemon I play are 4 seis, 2-2 Garb, and 1 Jirachi (MVP not as bad to start it as with other decks). Yveltal is a bad matchup and there's no way around that.
You don't need techs or extra poison damage if the opponent is stuck not able to do anything the whole game.
Fire attackers are unnecessary in pure lock Seis.
grantm1999 said:
If you plan on playing Quad Toad w/ Garb, you have to play lasers. Item lock is useless if you are hitting for 50 a turn with band. And against metal, do you lose after you run out of DCE's against a cobalion? I know the deck runs waters, but its not as easy to slap them on quickly.
If the deck was more teched, like with other water attackers, yveltal, or even a DCE based deck (with other DCE attackers), then I can see the option to remove laserbank from the list.
Also "You don't need techs or extra poison damage if the opponent is stuck not able to do anything the whole game." is not going to happen all games. Without Bank, Yveltal can do 100 damage for 2 energy while your doing 50 for 2 energy. If you want to win the game, you'll have to use more then just quaking punch/grenade hammer.
Also, and I generally hate to use TTC's videos as a reference, but the deck is really loose with what to put in if you want to have a straight build of Seismatoad. His techs are easily replaceable (head ringer, charizard, etc.) and makes the deck very flexible. It would actually be difficult to fill in all of the spots with actually useful cards without laser.