Dusk-phan (Donphan / Dusknoir)

[terryanddeidra]

Pokemon: 14

• 
  4 Donphan PLS
  4 Phanpy PLS
  2 Pyroar FLF
  2 Litleo PHF (for switch ability)
  1 Zekrom LTR
  1 Sigilyph LTR

Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums: 36

• 
  4 Juniper
  4 N
  3 Korrina
  1 Pokemon Fan Club
  2 Colress
  1 Lysandre's Trump Card
  3 Float Stone
  2 Fighting Stadium
  3 Muscle Band
  2 Lysandre
  2 Startling Megaphone
  2 Ultra Ball
  1 Computer Search
  1 Evosoda
  1 Sacred Ash
  1 Town Map
  2 VS Seeker
  1 Switch

Energy: 10

• 
  2 Double Colorless Energy
  4 Strong Energy
  4 Fighting Energy

Strategy:
First, This is my first attempt at a deck that is Standard Format legal. So please do not hold any punches when you comment on it, it all helps.

The strategy is this: Donphan as active pokemon, with muscle band and strong energy (and Fighting stadium in play) hits for 100 points. Then Donphan switches out with Flygon. Flygon between turns does 10 points to each opponents pokemon (best case scenario this is 6 extra damage counters, one per). Then at beginning of next turn Dusknoir moves 16 damage counters to whatever pokemon I want to knock it out. May even be able to knock out 2 per turn for smaller pokemon.

Rinse and repeat.

I am wondering if I am going to run into trouble with energy though. What do you think?

 

[GadgetJax]

RE: Dusk-phan

In the current format, running 2 different Stage 2 evolution lines in the same deck is very VERY difficult to pull off. Because of that, I feel that Flygon really isn't needed in this deck. Instead, drop in maybe a few of the Legendary Dragons from Unova in here. Kyurem and Zekrom are good choices, since you can switch in to them with Donphan, let them absorb a hit or 2, then fight back hard with Outrage. Substitute Robot could also help, since it allows you to buy some time with Spinning Turn.

 

[terryanddeidra]

RE: Dusk-phan

In the current format, running 2 different Stage 2 evolution lines in the same deck is very VERY difficult to pull off. Because of that, I feel that Flygon really isn't needed in this deck. Instead, drop in maybe a few of the Legendary Dragons from Unova in here. Kyurem and Zekrom are good choices, since you can switch in to them with Donphan, let them absorb a hit or 2, then fight back hard with Outrage. Substitute Robot could also help, since it allows you to buy some time with Spinning Turn.

Hmm...OK, well I don't consider Dusknoir a stage two, because I am going to use Ditto to get him out (as a stage 1 so to speak). So maybe get rid of the dusclops?

 

[TheLegendaryRaikou]

RE: Dusk-phan

I really like the idea of this deck, but here are some changes I would make:
Take away
Pokémon:
2 Ditto
2 Vibrava

Trainers:
3 Evosoda
3 Shauna
2 Pokémon Catcher
1 Sacred Ash
1 Town Map
1 Ultra Ball

Energy:
2 Double Colorless Energy
Total: 17
I would add:
Pokémon:
1 Donphan
1 Phanpy
3 Trapinch BCR
1 Sigilyph DRX

Trainers:
3 N
3 Rare Candy
1 Lysandre

Energy:
4 Fighting

Good luck when you play this deck

 

[terryanddeidra]

RE: Dusk-phan

I really like the idea of this deck, but here are some changes I would make:
Take away
Pokémon:
2 Ditto
2 Vibrava

Trainers:
3 Evosoda
3 Shauna
2 Pokémon Catcher
1 Sacred Ash
1 Town Map
1 Ultra Ball

Energy:
2 Double Colorless Energy
Total: 17
I would add:
Pokémon:
1 Donphan
1 Phanpy
3 Trapinch BCR
1 Sigilyph DRX

Trainers:
3 N
3 Rare Candy
1 Lysandre

Energy:
4 Fighting

Good luck when you play this deck

Totally forgot about Trapinch.... Duh...
Is "N" still going to be legal?

 

[Gengar master]

RE: Dusk-phan

I really like the idea of this deck, but here are some changes I would make:
Take away
Pokémon:
2 Ditto
2 Vibrava

Trainers:
3 Evosoda
3 Shauna
2 Pokémon Catcher
1 Sacred Ash
1 Town Map
1 Ultra Ball

Energy:
2 Double Colorless Energy
Total: 17
I would add:
Pokémon:
1 Donphan
1 Phanpy
3 Trapinch BCR
1 Sigilyph DRX

Trainers:
3 N
3 Rare Candy
1 Lysandre

Energy:
4 Fighting

Good luck when you play this deck

Totally forgot about Trapinch.... Duh...
Is "N" still going to be legal?

Yes. N is still legal because it was reprinted as a BW100 promo

---

I would pick one or the other: Flygon or Dusknoir?

Two stage 2 Pokemon is really difficult to pull of in this format. (For the old players out there...Remember Broken Time Space?) So I would cut one of them out of the deck and Ditto. The most effective way of using Donphan is to hit hard then switch into a good wall. Examples of some are Zekrom BW (Hit Yveltal EX for weakness), Sigilyph DRX (To block EXs. It was reprinted), Kyurem LDT (To hit Landorus EX for weakness).

I suggest you add some of these and stick to one of the stage 2s. I recommend sticking with Dusknoir so you have multiple choices of Pokemon to switch into like the ones listed above, for different situations. This way the stage 2 is on the bench. (You shouldn't waste time getting a stage 2 out to eventually get knocked out.)

Using Dusknoir sitting on the bench with a float stone is a great idea because, most of the time, Donphan won't be getting OHKOs. So it would be a good idea to have Dusknoir move around the extra damage on their active Pokemon to another one of theirs, setting up a OHKO on that Pokemon.

 

[Mora]

Yes, N is still legal. It was reprinted as BW Promo 100.

This was actually the first Donphan variant I put together. I knew that Trevenant was probably better since it was only a Stage 1, but I had to try it anyways because it sounded really fun. I seemed to have trouble getting all of my Pokemon set up because you do have to set up a Stage 1 to attack with and another Stage 2, but games that I did get set up, I destroyed my opponent. I don't have my exact list, so here's the best I can remember from memory; I'll try to explain some of my card choices and counts below:

Pokemon: 18

• 
  3 Donphan
  3 Phanpy
  3 Flygon
  2 Vibrava
  4 Trapinch
  1 Dusknoir
  1 Duskull
  1 Keldeo EX

Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums: 34

• 
  4 Professor Juniper
  4 N
  3 Korrina
  1 Colress
  2 Pokemon Fan Club
  3 Float Stone
  3 Evosoda
  3 Muscle Band
  3 Rare Candy
  2 Fighting Stadium
  2 Ultra Ball
  1 Dowsing Machine
  1 Sacred Ash
  1 Startling Megaphone
  1 Switch

Energy: 8

• 
  4 Strong Energy
  4 Fighting Energy

I played 4 Trapinch because I tended to start with them and have them KO'd before I could set up, 2 Vibrava to help set up multiple Flygons quicker, because I already have Evosoda so I can go from Trapinch to Vibrava or from Vibrava to Flygon, and to have a chance at evolving under Seismitoad, and 3 Flygon because I couldn't find enough room for the 4th, but it didn't really matter because the pre-evolutions had a tendency to be KO'd before I could get them fully set up.

Dusknoir is at 1-0-1 because the deck doesn't fall apart without it. There's not much space for a thick Dusknoir line.

Keldeo EX is in the deck so that you can abuse Rush In to free retreat anything you Spinning Turn into.

I play Korrina over Skyla because I could not get enough Pokemon search in this deck. And it's almost a better Skyla for fighting decks.

Most everything else is relatively self-explanatory, but let me know if you have any questions! One thing I might consider changing to this list is finding more room for another Pokemon Fan Club. Getting your basics out ASAP is important, and that's one of the problems I remember having with it.

It's not the best Donphan variant, but it's probably the most fun to play, and maybe you can get the consistency right. I have the whole Flygon evolution line for trade if you are interested in going this route.

 

[terryanddeidra]

Ok, Unless I am mistaken, which may be the case. If I play with the Ditto, doesn't that get rid of the need for any basic or stage 1 for Dusknoir or Flygon? I mean keep one of each maybe incase the Ditto are prized maybe.

So....

Pokemon: 21
Donphan PLS x3
Phanfy PLS x3
Dusknoir BCR x2
Duskull FLF x2
Ditto BCR x3
Flygon BCR x3
Vibrava XYFF x2
Trapinch BCR x3

Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums: 30
Colress PLS x2
Computer Search BCR x1
Evosoda XY x2
Rare Candy PLB x2
Float Stone PLF x3
Muscle Band XY x2
N BW Promo 100 x3
Pokemon Catcher PLB x2
Professor Juniper PLB x3
Lysandre's Trump Card XYPF x1
Sacred Ash FLF x1
Korrina XYFF x2
Startling Megaphone FLF x1
Town Map BCR x1
Ultra Ball FLF x2
Fighting Stadium XYFF x2

Energy: 9
Double Colorless Energy XY x2
Strong Energy XYFF x4
Fighting Energy x3

Does that look any better?

If anyone has these cards, please look in my trade post for anything you want.

 

[Mora]

The way Ditto works is that you would have to play Duskull onto Ditto, then you would have to play Rare Candy to evolve into Dusknoir. The only advantage to playing Ditto is that you don't have to wait a turn before you evolve because as long as Ditto has been in play for at least one turn, that effect carries over to which ever Pokemon you put on top of Ditto.

Edit: I also updated your original post with the changes you made for you.

 

[terryanddeidra]

would it be better to use (2) Trevor instead of maybe ultra balls? Trevor is a supporter though, so only one per turn, but no discarding cards.

 

[Mora]

Usually discarding is not that big of a deal, but this is one of the few decks where I've had that problem of what to discard. I don't really like Trevor because it is Supporter, and it's effect is very underwhelming. You have a good amount of Pokemon in this deck that Great Ball might be an option. Unfortunately, there aren't that many good Pokemon search options at the moment aside from Ultra Ball. If you do decide to drop Ultra Ball, I'd leave one minimum in the deck so that you can still search for it with Korrina.

 

[terryanddeidra]

So I was looking at my cards, and came across Mienshao (Furious Fists 57)

What do you think? would this be better than the Donphan?

 

[Kecleon-X]

I don't think it would. Whereas you wouldn't be subject to Lysandre, you would, however, be subject to the fact that you can only attach one Energy per turn as one of the most popular cards in this format: N. If your opponent plays N, you will have to shuffle Meinshao back into the deck and thus, out of your hand. If it were up to me, I would play Donphan, personally.

 

[terryanddeidra]

.....
It's not the best Donphan variant, but it's probably the most fun to play, and maybe you can get the consistency right. I have the whole Flygon evolution line for trade if you are interested in going this route.

Mora....What is the best Donphan variant? Just curious?

---

I don't think it would. Whereas you wouldn't be subject to Lysandre, you would, however, be subject to the fact that you can only attach one Energy per turn as one of the most popular cards in this format: N. If your opponent plays N, you will have to shuffle Meinshao back into the deck and thus, out of your hand. If it were up to me, I would play Donphan, personally.

Noted: But here is how I was thinking about this. If I have 3-3 in the deck, and at least one basic on the bench when I spin, I have a better chance of getting the stage 1 out. As for energy, it is only one fighting energy for the attack. Of course then I have to think about the muscle band.....ugg

 

[Gengar master]

To your question about the "best" Donphan deck:

I would say it is just 4-4 Donphan using lots of techs to go against each deck. (Sigilyph, Kyurem, Wobbuffet, Robo Substitute and even Zekrom/Reshiram. Hawlucha is awesome too.) Excluding the stage 2s would allow for a faster set up and more Donphan on the bench. (There already is limited space on the bench with all those techs) It is a good idea to set up multiple Donphans because they could be killed with Lysandre.

 

[Mora]

Mora....What is the best Donphan variant? Just curious?

To your question about the "best" Donphan deck:

I would say it is just 4-4 Donphan using lots of techs to go against each deck. (Sigilyph, Kyurem, Wobbuffet, Robo Substitute and even Zekrom/Reshiram. Hawlucha is awesome too.) Excluding the stage 2s would allow for a faster set up and more Donphan on the bench. (There already is limited space on the bench with all those techs) It is a good idea to set up multiple Donphans because they could be killed with Lysandre.

Basically that. Donphan Dragons with Safeguard and Robo Substitute. It has its own thread in the Metagame Discussion; you should check it out sometime.

 

[terryanddeidra]

To your question about the "best" Donphan deck:

I would say it is just 4-4 Donphan using lots of techs to go against each deck. (Sigilyph, Kyurem, Wobbuffet, Robo Substitute and even Zekrom/Reshiram. Hawlucha is awesome too.) Excluding the stage 2s would allow for a faster set up and more Donphan on the bench. (There already is limited space on the bench with all those techs) It is a good idea to set up multiple Donphans because they could be killed with Lysandre.

I don't understand why Hawlucha is good.

 

[Mora]

Free retreat and it can do tons and tons of damage for one Energy. That's about it I think. It can't take a hit obviously, and it doesn't really benefit from being Active.

 

[terryanddeidra]

Free retreat and it can do tons and tons of damage for one Energy. That's about it I think. It can't take a hit obviously, and it doesn't really benefit from being Active.

I see that, but if the opponents active is not an EX, it does nothing.

So...

Only if it is an EX, does it do 60 damage.

Of Course if I use the Muscle band, and strong energy.....that is 120 with Fighting Stadium. Still not enough to knock out an EX.

Just saying.

---

Or am I missing something else?

 

[Mora]

~100 damage to an EX turn one is pretty impressive and relatively easy to pull off. It puts a lot of pressure on your opponent, and it only gives up one prize. I'm not a big fan off Hawlucha in Donphan, but the card itself is surprisingly good.