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Empoleon / Dusknoir 2.0

C

Card Slinger J

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Pokemon (20)
  • 4-1-4 Empoleon (Dark Explorers/Plasma Freeze)
  • 2-1-2 Dusknoir (Boundaries Crossed/Plasma Blast)
  • 2-2 Leafeon (Plasma Freeze)
  • 1 Exeggcute (Plasma Freeze/Plasma Blast)
  • 1 Sawk (Plasma Blast)
Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums (33)
  • 4 Skyla
  • 4 Rare Candy
  • 3 Ultra Ball
  • 3 Level Ball
  • 3 Silver Bangle
  • 3 N
  • 2 Shauna
  • 2 Colress
  • 2 Max Potion
  • 2 Tool Scrapper
  • 2 Professor's Letter
  • 2 Super Rod
  • 1 Dowsing Machine
Energy (7)
  • 7 Water
Deck Total (60)

Strategy

The deck focuses on using Empoleon for Attack Command when you get a full bench going while also using Diving Draw as a draw engine of sorts, Dusknoir helps Empoleon score easy KO's using it's Sinister Hand ability. Leafeon is to help counter against Blastoise variants with Energy Crush. As for other cards in the deck, I plan on taking Juniper out for Shauna cause discarding resources in exchange for drawpower is bad for this kind of deck that needs those resources in order to win. In one game I played at my local League Challenge I was forced to discard 2 Rare Candies in hand to Juniper for 7 then by late game when I got out a Piplup with a :water: energy and Silver Bangle attached I attempt to Skyla for a Rare Candy out of my deck only to find out that all my Rare Candies were in my Discard Pile with the 2 I was forced to discard for Juniper earlier and my opponent had Darkrai EX out as his Active with one prize remaining. :/

I've noticed that when I've been playing this deck that I've had difficulty getting more than 2 Basics out on my starting hand and since I can't attack on my 1st turn to Call for Family with Emolga that hurts me quite a bit especially since there's still no Supporter in this format that works like Roseanne's and Collector right now. Popular decks like Darkrai and Virizion/Genesect/Mewtwo are getting really good at countering Empoleon/Dusknoir by minimizing the amount of Pokemon they play on their bench in order to lessen Empoleon's damage output with Attack Command and it also stops Colress dead in it's tracks which also decreases the amount of cards I draw in the process so I should run 3 Shauna and 2 Colress in this case.

For example when I was playing against Virizion/Genesect/Mewtwo at League Challenge with this deck my opponent managed to lessen Empoleon's damage output but since I made a terrible play mistake of not using Dusknoir's Sinister Hand to win the game despite him only having 3 Pokemon in play to my 6 he manages to Scramble Switch DCE and several other energies onto his Mewtwo EX that he switches into from his active Virizion EX with a 4 prize lead from KOing my Pokemon with Hypnotoxic Laser and Virbank City Gym he KO's my active Mew EX for game using Mewtwo's X Ball. Since it seems like everyone is running Hypnotoxic Laser over Pokemon Catcher I didn't know If I should run it in this deck as well although I don't think I have the deck space for it to be honest and I'd rather run Max Potion instead but it seems like Trevenant/Garbodor could be a thing starting with X/Y, also don't get me started with Red Card.

Any help, comments, advice, and/or suggestions are greatly appreciated.
 
Fyi: I've built and played this deck, as well as played against this deck. In addition, the "top" decks in my area are: VirGen, Darkai EX variants, Blastoise-BXEX, RayBoar, and PlasmaBox variants. I too have also built and played these decks, as well. So, my comments are based upon these decks and play experiences.

Our Poke lineup are quite similar, except I chose not to use Audino at all since I also use Switch. I also included 1 Landorus EX to apply some early pressure while setting up (if needed), to counter L type Poke like Thundurus EX, and to inflict "heavy" damage, if needed, with Land's Judgement. I also only run Leafeon as my Eeveelution - it's just that good, IMHO.

In my early build versions, the first major decision I had to make was whether or not I wanted to use a Call for Family Poke (e.g., Kangaskhan) or Balls (e.g., 2 Level + 3 Ultra) to facilitate Basic Poke setup. Or, I could just run no CfF Poke, minimum Balls and 4 Piplup - "accepting" you might lose 1-2 early on while the remainder could hopefully survive to evolve to Emploelons. After lots of playtesting, I decided to add Lando (F energy of course) and just 1 Level and 3 Ultra Balls.

My Trainers and energy mix are different than yours since I've included Landorus EX and needed to make some choices because of that decision.

Relative to matchups against:
  • Blastoise-BKEX.Most players running this deck, will not expose their Keldeo EXs unless absolutely necessary, thus limiting your opportunities to 1HKO their Keldeo EX with your Leafeon. However, I've still found Leafeon to be invaluable in these matchups. Landorus EX is also useful too. With the damage output of Energy Crush (and Hammerhead), you can set the stage for future KOs with Empoleon. The 2-for-1 prize exchange (except in the case of Lando) is great for you and can be quite frustrating for your opponents.
  • Darkai EX. Needless to say, Landorus EX is a REAL difference maker in these matchups - another reason why I chose to include this Poke in my list. IMHO, Absol becomes the real nuisance since that Poke can setup Empoleon, Landorus EX, and Leafeon for 1HKOs by Darkrai EX. But still, Leafeon is great in these matchups since Darkrai EX needs lots of energy to attack.
  • RayBoar. This is very similar to the Blastoise-BKEX matchup, except the Reshirams can be easily KOd by Empoleons when your opponents attack your Leafeons.
  • Thundurus EX-Deoxys EX-Kyurem variants. This matchup, IMHO, can be the toughest, especially if your opponent runs Lugia EX. Lugia EX "levels the play field" by inceasing the prize exchange to a "2-for-2" level. In these matchups, I still lead with my Landorus Ex as my primary attacker until I determine my oponent could possibly KO my Poke, then I switch either Leafeon or Empoleon to start, KOing (hopefully) the defending Poke. Or at least set the stage to KO my opponent's Lugia EX once promoted.
  • Virizion EX-Genesect EX-Mewtwo EX and variants. This is another really tough matchup because your opponent can Red Signal a particular Poke to the active position to either KO your Poke or "block" your attacker. In these matchups, I prefer to attack with a leading Landorus EX, if possible since I can get 6 damage counters in play before my opponent executes his/her first Emerald Slash. Plus, a leading Landorus EX may very well stay active for 3+ turns. Given board/game position, my Lando may become a "sacrifical lamb" in order to get lots of damage counters in play (spread across my opponent's Poke in order to minimize the effect of their playing a Max Potion). Again, Leafeon is fantastic in these matchups too since Virizion EX decks will typically have lots of energy in play. I usually play Empoleon in a "cleanup" role in these matchups. Note: some VG variants also play Lugia EX; so, be don't be surprised to see this Poke.
I've yet to complete my analysis of the XY set to determine which cards in my current deck my be replaced; but for now, I do not think any of my Poke or energy will change at all. This is still a very strong Tier 1.5 deck, IMHO.

I hope you find these comments helpful.
 
The only thing I'd suggest is 1 or 2 more exeggcute. More Diving Draw power and more power to Flareon without expending resources.
 
When I used to run Landorus EX in Empoleon/Dusknoir it would always be bait for Hypnotoxic Laser for an easy 2 prizes (same case with Mew EX in my last League Challenge) although in my first League Challenge although it did help against a Lugia EX deck that ran Zoroark although I used Leafeon against Lugia EX while Landorus EX took care of Zoroark. In that League Challenge I hardly anyone was running Darkrai compared to my last League Challenge where most of those players were testing their decks for Regionals this year which unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to attend for due to how far away it is from where I live.

The biggest reason why I took out Landorus EX is due to Darkrai variants getting Shadow Circle in XY where unless I counter stadium with Virbank or Tropical Beach Landorus isn't going to be scoring any KO's against Darkrai, Absol, or any other Dark Type that's weak to Fighting as long as they have a dark energy attached and since Darkrai gives them all free retreat with Dark Cloak they can easily switch in to whatever I have out Active. If I'm forced to send Duskull or Dusknoir active because they keep one-shotting my Empoleon's and Leafeon's that too leaves me with a big disadvantage as well.

So If Landorus EX isn't playable anymore due to Darkrai getting Shadow Circle in XY then how does Empoleon/Dusknoir deal with Raichu which it doesn't have an answer to other than Landorus EX? Should I run LaserBank in this deck to get around Shadow Circle then? What's interesting is that the first time I played against VirGen I came down to a tie against it but that was because it wasn't running Scramble Switch with Mewtwo EX while it didn't get off that consistent LaserBank combo but he did Red Signal me a couple of times, 2nd time around I never did get any of my Pokemon Red Signaled at all.

Flareon I feel helps against VirGen just as much Leafeon does against Blastoise/Keldeo and other matchups that rely on energy acceleration however the Blastoise/Keldeo player can easily get around Leafeon simply by switching into Black Kyurem-EX so that it doesn't do as much damage with Energy Crush with Silver Bangle attached and then when it proceeds to their turn they can just Deluge energies onto Keldeo EX with Blastoise, Rush In, and Secret Sword for the knock on Leafeon while you're behind setting up another Leafeon on the bench or they can just keep Black Kyurem-EX active to have Blastoise Deluge energies onto it for Black Ballista instead.

+2 Exeggcute seems kind of overkill for this kind of deck but it should work given I run a 3-2/1 Leafeon/Flareon line as it gives Flareon a much needed boost for Vengeance against the VirGen matchup. Also TuxedoBlack thanks for your input although I do hope you look into what XY has in store for this deck as I mentioned in this post cause it's really important and I need to know what I can run to get around those problems. I do feel that running more Exeggcute could hurt by being stuck with it as my only Pokemon Active that could lead to an easy 2nd turn donk for my opponent. A 4th Skyla probably wouldn't hurt with it being crucial to search out Rare Candy to evolve Piplup into Empoleon when I need it.
 
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