Empoleon/Dusknoir/Leafeon Sigilyph?

[pegasus2010]

Experience: Novice

Pokemon (21)

• 4 Piplup (DE 27)
• 2 Prinplup (DE 28)
• 4 Empoleon (DE 29)
• 2 Duskull (BC 61)
• 2 Dusknoir (BC 63)
• 2 Leafeon (PF 11)
• 1 Exeggcute (PF 4)
• 1 Mr. Mime (PF 47)
• 2 Eevee (PF 89)
• 1 Sigilyph (DR 52)

Trainers (32)

• 4 Skyla
• 4 N
• 2 Professor Juniper
• 2 Colress
• 4 Rare Candy
• 3 Ulra Ball
• 3 Level Ball
• 1 Tool Scrapper
• 1 Super Rod
• 1 Dowsing Machine
• 2 Silver Bangle
• 2 Silver Mirror
• 2 Frozen City
• 1 Escape Rope

Energy (7)

• 7 Water

Strategy
Hi, everyone. I am a novice in playing TCG. I joined a league in my college, got many helps from the nice people there, and have built my first ever tournament-legal deck. Whew that is a tough job for me. I even ordered a custom Empoleon playmat. Just cannot stop loving that penguin. Ah I think I am way too off the topic.

I cannot talk too much about the main strategy for this deck since it is already there. After some testing with other people, mainly 2 Team Plasma, 2 Rayboar, the Fairies, Palkia/Trevenant built by our leader, Flareon/Driflimb/Garbodor, and many more decks online, I am so confused of how to adjust my deck to a metagame here.

I tech-in a Sigilyph in order to help set up and emergence when I run inconsistently with another attacker from the one just being knocked out. There are so many EXs right now besides 1HKO Thundurus for Piplup. I do not run Tropical Beach for reason way too expensive, and I do not like the idea of playing proxy since I will never afford one.

I tech-in Silver Mirror largely due to Team Plasma. Some people may say well it will still get scrappered away, and it is true that I found two are still not that enough. I also tech-in 2 Frozen City because I bumped into Rayboar twice (once unluckily a prized sigilyph and lost since the opponent ran tropical beach and set up more quickly with benched delphox&emboar), and I always found that getting behind and cannot 1HKO Rayquaza is a big problem when dealing with Rayboar, which can hit 180 every turn, making me not able to set up more potential attackers. The Frozen City can induce damage to Rayquaza even when they use Emboar's ability to attach energy to Rayquaza if I am reading the text right. Still, it will lower Empoleon's HP to 120 and can be more easily dragon burst by only 2 fire energy instead of 3, but I only hope can 1HKO THAT dragon (and more 170/180 HP ex) hopefully with 40 (damage from frozen city) + 30 (bangle) + 100 (from attacking command). I know it is ideal that we would have 10 Pokemon in play.

I am sorry for making this post so long. I just have too many thoughts in my mind now. I also want to tech in Max Potion, hard to decide to choose between switch and escape rope, and run out of deck slots of this deck since I want to increase the copies of certain item cards. I would be greatly appreciated for any advice/suggestions, and hopefully we could make this deck better.

 

[socery]

I would suggest losing a skyla and level ball for 2 juniper.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

Hello Pegasus2010; welcome to the game and Forum. I hope you continue to enjoy this fun game (I still play 15 years later... Lol)

I too have built and run this deck and offer the following comments for your consideration:

• Your Poké "mix" is somewhat "standard." Personally, I consider Sigilyph to be an "easy" prize not much of a "wall" against experienced players. I run a variety of decks and each has an attacker that can easily 1HKO Sigilyph. Secondly, expect "lots" of players to run Garbodor; so, Sigi's Safeguard will be nullified. So, I feel it can't justify a slot in any of my decks.
• You will find (or already know) that in many match-ups, Leafeon is a fantastic complimentary attacker, especially when opponents keep their bench small or have lots of energy in play.
• Also note that with the XY set release, Yveltal and Yveltal EX will be prevalent in lots of decks too. These Poké are also weak to Lightning Poké attacks, as well as Empoleon. More players will tend to tech some type of Lightning Poké into their decks as counters to these new specific XY Poké. So, IMHO, 1 Super Rod is quite insufficient - you will typically play "from behind" in many games.
• After lots of playtesting (prior to XY set), I've found a card-drawing Supporter mix of 2 Colress, 4 N and 3 Professor Juniper worked best for me to compliment Empoleon's Diving Draw Ability. Keep in mind that you may run into Garbodor (like in my area); so, that 1 extra Supporter was quite useful. Other than the 4 N, I'd suggest you playtest different combinations of 4 Colress, Professor Juniper and Shauna (I still need to playtest this and hopefully drop the 3rd PJ from my list) to see what works best for you. I definitely recommend that you do not run 4 PJs - I'm hoping to just be able to run 2 after incorporating Shauna perhaps.
• I also found that running only 3 Skyla to be quite sufficient.
• I also run a PlasmaBox deck and actually like it when my opponents play Silver Mirror (just occupied some valuable card slots that could have been more effectively used elsewhere, IMHO...) - I just Scrapper the SMs away and attack. I consider SMs to be a very minor inconvenience.
• Consider adding 1 Professor's Letter in order to provide some energy search capability.
• I do not run any Max Potion in my deck; I expect my opponent to 1HKO my Penguins in most cases...

Some thoughts on deck strategy (at least mine):

vs Blastoise-BKEX-Keldo. These players can easily 1HKO anything Poké in the format. In these games, expect to play from behind. Ns are your friends. There is no need for your opponent to ever jeopardize his/her Keldeo EX when BKEX can just 1HKO any of your Poké. Secondly, expect these players to runat least 3 Stadiums; so, if you truly intend to compete in the Stadium "war," consider adding a 3rd Frozen City. These players can play without a full bench; so, you are typically 2HKO BKEXs, at best. BUT, these players MUST KO 6 of your Poké; whereas you need only KO 3 of their EXs. "Setting the stage" for damage placement at the proper time and on the proper Poké is, no doubt, critical.

vs Darkrai. In this match-up, Leafeon "shines," because Darkrai decks will typically need and have lots of energy in play.

vs Fairies. This is another "need lots of energy in play" deck. After sufficient damage has been inflicted, Sinister Hand'ing that damage onto Aromatisse and/or Slurpuffs for KOs tips the scale in your favor.

vs PlasmaBox. This is another match-up where I tend to lead with Leafeon since Thundurus EX can easily 1HKO Empoleon now. If these players run Lugia EX, you will have a very tough match since this Poké can easily take 4 prizes before you KO it.

vs RayBoar. See Blastoise match-up comments; match-up is similar.

vs VirGen. Like Darkrai, these decks will have lots of energy in play; so, Leafeon can be very useful. Note: if these players run Lugia EX, you will have a very tough match since this Poké can easily take 4 prizes before you KO it.

I hope you find these comments helpful.

Have fun.

 

[pegasus2010]

Hello Pegasus2010; welcome to the game and Forum. I hope you continue to enjoy this fun game (I still play 15 years later... Lol)

I too have built and run this deck and offer the following comments for your consideration:

• Your Poké "mix" is somewhat "standard." Personally, I consider Sigilyph to be an "easy" prize not much of a "wall" against experienced players. I run a variety of decks and each has an attacker that can easily 1HKO Sigilyph. Secondly, expect "lots" of players to run Garbodor; so, Sigi's Safeguard will be nullified. So, I feel it can't justify a slot in any of my decks.
• You will find (or already know) that in many match-ups, Leafeon is a fantastic complimentary attacker, especially when opponents keep their bench small or have lots of energy in play.
• Also note that with the XY set release, Yveltal and Yveltal EX will be prevalent in lots of decks too. These Poké are also weak to Lightning Poké attacks, as well as Empoleon. More players will tend to tech some type of Lightning Poké into their decks as counters to these new specific XY Poké. So, IMHO, 1 Super Rod is quite insufficient - you will typically play "from behind" in many games.
• After lots of playtesting (prior to XY set), I've found a card-drawing Supporter mix of 2 Colress, 4 N and 3 Professor Juniper worked best for me to compliment Empoleon's Diving Draw Ability. Keep in mind that you may run into Garbodor (like in my area); so, that 1 extra Supporter was quite useful. Other than the 4 N, I'd suggest you playtest different combinations of 4 Colress, Professor Juniper and Shauna (I still need to playtest this and hopefully drop the 3rd PJ from my list) to see what works best for you. I definitely recommend that you do not run 4 PJs - I'm hoping to just be able to run 2 after incorporating Shauna perhaps.
• I also found that running only 3 Skyla to be quite sufficient.
• I also run a PlasmaBox deck and actually like it when my opponents play Silver Mirror (just occupied some valuable card slots that could have been more effectively used elsewhere, IMHO...) - I just Scrapper the SMs away and attack. I consider SMs to be a very minor inconvenience.
• Consider adding 1 Professor's Letter in order to provide some energy search capability.
• I do not run any Max Potion in my deck; I expect my opponent to 1HKO my Penguins in most cases...

Some thoughts on deck strategy (at least mine):

vs Blastoise-BKEX-Keldo. These players can easily 1HKO anything Poké in the format. In these games, expect to play from behind. Ns are your friends. There is no need for your opponent to ever jeopardize his/her Keldeo EX when BKEX can just 1HKO any of your Poké. Secondly, expect these players to runat least 3 Stadiums; so, if you truly intend to compete in the Stadium "war," consider adding a 3rd Frozen City. These players can play without a full bench; so, you are typically 2HKO BKEXs, at best. BUT, these players MUST KO 6 of your Poké; whereas you need only KO 3 of their EXs. "Setting the stage" for damage placement at the proper time and on the proper Poké is, no doubt, critical.

vs Darkrai. In this match-up, Leafeon "shines," because Darkrai decks will typically need and have lots of energy in play.

vs Fairies. This is another "need lots of energy in play" deck. After sufficient damage has been inflicted, Sinister Hand'ing that damage onto Aromatisse and/or Slurpuffs for KOs tips the scale in your favor.

vs PlasmaBox. This is another match-up where I tend to lead with Leafeon since Thundurus EX can easily 1HKO Empoleon now. If these players run Lugia EX, you will have a very tough match since this Poké can easily take 4 prizes before you KO it.

vs RayBoar. See Blastoise match-up comments; match-up is similar.

vs VirGen. Like Darkrai, these decks will have lots of energy in play; so, Leafeon can be very useful. Note: if these players run Lugia EX, you will have a very tough match since this Poké can easily take 4 prizes before you KO it.

I hope you find these comments helpful.

Have fun.

Thank you for your detailed suggestion. I see what you mean for Sigilyph, and I will try taking it out and see how the deck goes without it because I need more deck slots for good use like you said. Let me know how you playtest with the supporters. I will still with N for now, and cut one Skyla for Juniper. I have seen her importance in early game for that great drawing power. N will just make the opponent replenish their hands because they discard their hands enormously from what I have seen.

I like your strategy part for other match-ups most because I am finding myself unsure what to put onto the bench when I discover what deck my opponent runs. I will apply that to the real games.

For now, I will make these adjusts to my deck:
-1 Sigilyph
-2 Silver Mirror
-1 Skyla

+1 Professor Juniper
+1 Super Rod
+1 Frozen City
+1 Professor's Letter

Looks better? Thank you in advance for your time.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

Let me know how you playtest with the supporters.

In playtesting a deck when I'm trying to determine the "proper" mix of card-draw Supporters, I first consider the overall deck strategy. For example, if the deck is a "speed" deck, then I tend to run lots of Bicycle cards (3-4) to help me get setup as soon as possible since Bicycle is an Item which can be played multiple times during the same turn. Regardless of the deck, it will still boil down to some trial and error through lots of playtesting.

In the case of Empoleon that has potentially multiple Diving Draw capability per turn, in addition to playing a card-drawing Supporter, I needed to scale down my "normal" mix of card-drawing Items and Supporters. The 11-12 I normally run were just too much. To begin, one has Bianca, Bicycle, Cheren, Colress, N, Professor Juniper/Sycamore, and Shauna to choose from. Let's assume you want to only devote 9 card deck slots to card-drawing Supporters, then look at each card-drawing Item/Supporter and weigh its potential value to the deck and your strategy. Following are some of my thoughts regarding the in/exclusion of the designated draw card:

• Bianca. I like using this Supporter when I also run lots of cards that "dump" cards into the discard pile, e.g., Ultra Ball. After I deplete my hand, I can replenish it with this Supporter without discarding my hand. But this card drawing action is similar to Diving Draw, but with limitation of drawing up till you have 6 total cards in your hand. So, IMHO, Bianca's limitation is not more effective than Diving Draw in many instances. Include in deck: no.
• Bicycle. I really like the card-drawing Item; it is searchable via Skyla and can be Junk Hunt'd - simply outstanding. But, not so great in this deck when you have multiple Diving Draws potential. Include in deck: no.
• Cheren. Not much different than Diving Draw. Include in deck: no.
• Colress. From my tournament and league play experience, I've observed that most players tend to fill his/her bench, just like Empoleon deck players. And there are occasions when you just want to get that "big" hand of 8-10 cards and Colress provides that opportunity. So, for me this card definitely has a spot, but only a few since I can't control total bench sizes throughout the game. Include in deck: yes, but just 2.
• N. This was by far the easiest decision to make. Why would I not want to have multiple opportunities to disrupt my opponent's hand knowing I can replenish mine easily via Diving Draw? Lol. Include in deck: YES and max out to 4.
• Professor Juniper/Sycamore. Some players consider this card to be the "best" in the game since you WILL always draw 7 cards (assuming there are that many left in your deck) and "every deck should run 4" for "consistency" (overly use word that some players can't really explain or provide sound reasoning/justification), but at the cost of discarding your hand first - which can have both positive and negative impact. Through my experience, it is really helpful, especially early game when I'm trying to get the bench setup. I do not like running 4 in this deck because when I can Diving Draw multiple times, the 4th PJ was just discard fodder. Include in deck: yes, but only 3.

My final mix of 2 Colress, 4 N, and 3 PJ was arrived at through playtesting (knowing I had Diving Draw capability) and discussions with my Poké pals. Also, keep in mind that one's playing style can also have a huge impact upon his/her mix of card-drawing Items/Supporters too. Ultimately, go with something that works best for you.

I like your strategy part for other match-ups most because I am finding myself unsure what to put onto the bench when I discover what deck my opponent runs. I will apply that to the real games.

Another thing I've come to appreciate is that Leafeon compliments Dusknoir very, very well; Energy Crush is amazing and can get lots of damage counters into play fast which makes Dusknoir very, very happy. I've sometimes wished I ran a 3-3 Leafeon line with a 3-1-3 Empoleon line for certain matchups.

For now, I will make these adjusts to my deck:
-1 Sigilyph
-2 Silver Mirror
-1 Skyla

+1 Professor Juniper
+1 Super Rod
+1 Frozen City
+1 Professor's Letter

Looks better? Thank you in advance for your time.

Yes, definitely. Good luck and have fun!

 

[pegasus2010]

My final mix of 2 Colress, 4 N, and 3 PJ was arrived at through playtesting (knowing I had Diving Draw capability) and discussions with my Poké pals. Also, keep in mind that one's playing style can also have a huge impact upon his/her mix of card-drawing Items/Supporters too. Ultimately, go with something that works best for you.

Thank you. I agree your point that playing style can affect the mixing of supporters because it made me so difficult if to discard my hands with Professor Juniper at the early games, especially if there are stage 2, dowsing machine, super rod which I wish to use later in the game. I caught the sight of someone running Empoleon deck replace the second Colress with the other supporter Caitlin. This card reads "Put as many cards from your hand as you like on the bottom of your deck in any order. Then, draw a card for each card you put on the bottom of your deck." Their claim is that when you have a big hand in the late game but still miss that important card in your hand, this card can almost 100% ensure you get that card without running out of your deck. Good card to include?

 

[socery]

No, At least I don't thinks so.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

I caught the sight of someone running Empoleon deck replace the second Colress with the other supporter Caitlin. This card reads "Put as many cards from your hand as you like on the bottom of your deck in any order. Then, draw a card for each card you put on the bottom of your deck." Their claim is that when you have a big hand in the late game but still miss that important card in your hand, this card can almost 100% ensure you get that card without running out of your deck. Good card to include?

I did forget about Caitlin and I have not yet playtested it in my deck. But that player's point of removing cards from one's hand and then drawing has a lot of merit, especially when you Diving Draw multiple times in the same turn. You could get lots of unneeded cards which you could recycle with Caitlin. I'd suggest trying it out and determine if it "fits."

Should you find that you like a variety of card-draw Supporters that you want to use in different situations, then you might want to also consider Random Receiver(s) to help search for the Supporter you want to use in that particular situation.

Lastly, playtest, playtest and playtest till you are comfortable with the Supporter mix.

 

[socery]

Caitlin is very good, but I simply don't think it is needed. But I can see why, as it is always good to have something which doesn't shuffle (N, shauna) or discard (Juniper, Sycamore) your hand.

 

[Frost Mage]

I'd add a Town Map, a 4th Level Ball, a 1-0-1 line of Dusknoir, and because of that, an extra Super Rod. That being said, I'm very interested in testing out a 2-0-2 line. 1-0-1 is just so frail... I'd also recommend Twist Mountain, so that if you get LaserBank'd you have something to get it out of there and that doesn't help anyone.