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Empoleon/Kingdra

C

Card Slinger J

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Pokemon (17)

3-1-3 Empoleon (Dark Explorers)
2-1-2 Kingdra (Plasma Freeze)
2 Shaymin (Boundaries Crossed)
2 Landorus EX (Boundaries Crossed)
1 Mew EX (Dragons Exalted)

Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums (30)

4 N
4 Rare Candy
3 Ultra Ball
3 Skyla
3 Switch
3 Professor Juniper
3 Colress
3 Pokemon Catcher
2 Enhanced Hammer
1 Dowsing Machine
1 Super Rod

Energy (13)

7 Water
3 Fighting
3 Blend Energy (Water/Lightning/Fighting/Metal)

Strategy

This deck focuses on using Empoleon for Attack Command when you get a full bench going while also using Diving Draw to help send energies to the Discard Pile to setup for Kingdra's Dragon Vortex attack mid to late game, Kingdra also helps bench spread using Tri-Bullet for making easier KO's on Empoleon to work with as well. Landorus EX is in the deck to help cover against Darkrai EX and Thundurus EX, If I can get another Landorus EX for this deck it will also make my matchup against Weavile/Exeggcute/Darkrai much easier as well.

Shaymin (Call for Family) is my ideal starter to help fill my bench up once I get Empoleon out for Attack Command while Kingdra gives it more offensive power mid to late game. Both Stage 2's can deal at least 80+ damage early to mid game with Kingdra capping to about 120+ damage with Dragon Vortex granted you get enough energies in the Discard by then. I added more energies than usual to help with Dragon Vortex's damage output. Mew EX comes in handy to pull a sneak attack on Deoxys EX and Mewtwo EX for 2 prizes.

Any help, comments, advice, and/or suggestions are greatly appreciated. :)
 
RE: Kingdra/Empoleon

Maybe Emolga DRX would help setup basics faster...

-2 Stunfisk
+2 Emolga

That way you have 2 different good starters.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Or, if you'd like to maximize Dragon Vortex's potential:

-4 Stunfisk
-3 Blend Energy
+2 Emolga
+1 Ultra Ball
+2 Energy Search(This last 2 for getting energy faster and discard them with Ultra Ball, plus Energy Seach is Skyla'ble)
+2 Water Energy
 
RE: Kingdra/Empoleon

The deck played a bit more consistently with the fixes you mentioned, although I did take Cilan into consideration over Energy Search however I already have enough of a Supporter count as it is. My biggest concern with Kingdra/Empoleon is that it might be too slow to compete and I was planning on taking this deck to Battle Roads next Saturday to get a good Win/Loss Record while still having fun with it.

Landorus EX probably would've been better to run over Stunfisk considering it has 80 more HP and can help setup my board more efficiently I suppose. I've also been considering Mewtwo EX to help against GothLock and Deoxys EX in TDK, however I still wouldn't have a decent counter against Thundurus EX and Darkrai EX unless I ran Landorus EX or Stunfisk.

Is there anything else I can do to make this deck run faster?
 
RE: Kingdra/Empoleon

Actually I didn't suggest Cilan because of the amount of Supporters that there is already. And this is one of the few deck that I consider to be made to just hit hard no matter what, so countering isn't that of an issue, just beware of leaving Empoleon Active while battling a lightning deck.
 
RE: Kingdra/Empoleon

What do you think about taking the 2-1-2 Empoleon line out for a 4-4 Altaria line? Altaria's ability would certainly help Kingdra's Dragon Vortex but not Tri-Bullet of course. I'll just have to work with what I got for now unless I'm lucky enough to get a few trades in before the tournament. Thanks for your help Luispipe8, I'd appreciate some more feedback for this deck If I can.
 
RE: Kingdra/Empoleon

Well, if you take out Empoleon, you will have to find a way to discard more energy... Any ideas? I'll search myself, but at the moment don't think of anything that does...
 
RE: Kingdra/Empoleon

how about switching empoleon with rayquaza ex. and adding pokedex. you can change the order of the cards to put energies on top of your deck and then use rayquaza's celestial roar to either get them into the discard pile(if they are water energies) or attach them to him if they are lightning.

[private]Warned for minor S/G because of no caps.~KA[/private]
 
RE: Kingdra/Empoleon

Rayquaza EX with Celestial Roar? I was thinking more along the lines of pairing Kingdra up with Lugia EX to potentially get multiple prizes from benched Pokemon I dealt damage with Tri-Bullet with unfortunately I'm going to have difficulty getting ahold of some Lugia EX's when I already planned on running Tornadus EX for Windfall in this deck which was supposed to be my substitute for Tropical Beach.

I'm not really sold on Lugia EX over Empoleon, and even then I feel like I'm probably better off running Tornadus EX for Windfall for extra draw despite that it has weakness against Thundurus EX and other Electric Types. I would strongly prefer Landorus EX just because I'd have an easier time playing against TDK Plasma Toolbox or have a potential advantage against Darkrai EX. As for Pokedex, I'm most likely better off with Energy Search but thanks for the suggestion anyway.
 
RE: Kingdra/Empoleon

Well If you want to try out Kingdra/Rayquaza then go for it, I just don't really see much synergy between the two compared to Kingdra/Empoleon or maybe Kingdra/Lugia EX. The reason why I say this is one how do you plan on using Rayquaza as a secondary or main attacker in the deck unless you run Fire or Prism energies for it's other attacks which would reduce Dragon Vortex's damage output from Kingdra? That and Celestial Roar from Rayquaza EX doesn't really benefit Kingdra all that much when the energies must be attached to Rayquaza and not sent to your Discard Pile unless you Max Potion on Rayquaza to discard the energies attached.

Empoleon while it may be a Stage 2 has amazing synergy with Kingdra due to Diving Draw being able to discard Water energies while also enabling you to dish as much damage as possible with a full bench using Attack Command and furthermore both Stage 2's only need 1 energy attachment to do whatever they need to do. Plus with Colress you're going to get alot of card advantage in the process as well, and Tri-Bullet does in some cases help Empoleon score easier KO's in conjunction with Attack Command. I hope my testing with this deck goes smoothly at Battle Roads but like any Rogue deck my chances of losing seem great but that's why I'd rather take the risk and see what happens.

One Stage 2 I actually looked into that might have some synergy with Kingdra in this deck over Empoleon is Dusknoir (Boundaries Crossed) with the ability Sinister Hand. After you use Tri-Bullet with Kingdra and have Dusknoir on your bench just move the damage counters over to a specific Pokemon to spread counters for a possible KO and a prize. Another option would be Mew EX cause with Versatile it can use the attacks of any Pokemon that's in play including your own so that's a huge plus especially in a matchup against GothLock. Either that or Registeel EX for Triple Laser but that requires 2 extra energy for the attack unfortunately. I'd love to run Mew EX in this deck though, reminds me of Mew Prime from last format.
 
RE: Kingdra/Empoleon

This deck seems like a lot of fun, even though you lose to Plasma 99% of the time, since everything except Kingdra has lightning weakness.
Since Empoleon has such a good attack (compared to Kingdra, at least), I would focus the deck around Empoleon more, and lower the Kingdra line a bit. Kingdra's attack is more situational, while Empoleon's is good in almost all points of the game.
I'd change 2 of your Float Stones to 2 Switch. Switch is better for getting rid of Status Conditions, and there isn't many Pokemon in the deck that need a Float Stone on them.
Max Potion is another idea. It helps you discard energy from your Pokemon, and keeps them alive longer.
I'd also replace Computer Search with Dowsing Machine. Things like Rare Candy, Max Potion, Super Rod and Energy Search are all cards you could get an extra use out of, and Empoleon is already so consistent anyway that Dowsing Machine shouldn't hurt it much.

So here's all the changed I'd make:

- 1-0-1 Kingdra
- 1 Computer Search
- 2 Float Stone
- 1 Pokemon Communication (6 Pokemon search and 2 Emolga is plenty)
- 1 Energy Search (Energy Search is generally only useful once)
- 1 Colress (In my opinion, Empoleon doesn't need a whole ton of supporters, due to how good Diving Draw is at drawing cards)
- 1 Juniper (N and Skyla are so good in this deck that I'd lower Juniper to 3 before I'd lower the other 2. But that's just my preference)

+ 2-0-2 Empoleon
+ 1 Dowsing Machine
+ 2 Switch
+ 2 Max Potion

Hope my advice helped you out.
 
RE: Kingdra/Empoleon

Unfortunately I don't own any Dowsing Machine's the only ACE Spec card I have is Computer Search, is there a good alternative for it I can run instead? With the way you suggested on how to fix my deck it seems as though Kingdra hardly serves any purpose in this deck aside from getting off Dragon Vortex for at least 80+ by T4 at least. I have been considering Kingdra with Registeel EX though, however I'd only be using DCE for Triple Laser which seems like a dead card unless I run Mewtwo EX for X-Ball in here.
 
RE: Kingdra/Empoleon

Card Slinger J said:
Unfortunately I don't own any Dowsing Machine's the only ACE Spec card I have is Computer Search, is there a good alternative for it I can run instead? I have some Piplup's from Dark Explorers somewhere at my house but they're kind of beat up a little bit but the extra Empoleon's I have are in good condition though.

With the way you suggested on how to fix my deck it seems as though Kingdra hardly serves any purpose in this deck aside from getting off Dragon Vortex for at least 80+ by T4 at least. I have been considering Kingdra with Registeel EX though, however I'd only be using DCE for Triple Laser which seems like a dead card unless I run Mewtwo EX for X-Ball in here.
Click to expand...

Computer Search is still good. If you don't have Dowsing Machine, then keep running that.

The deck would still use Kingdra as part of your main strategy. In any version of the deck, it takes time to discard enough energy for Dragon Vortex to do any worthwhile damage, and Attack Command is a much better attack than Tri Bullet, in my opinion. More Empoleon also gives you more Diving Draws per turn, which means more energy in the discard.
 
RE: Kingdra/Empoleon

I know this kind of sounds like a silly question but should I go ahead and keep Kingdra in the deck then?
 
RE: Kingdra/Empoleon

Card Slinger J said:
I know this kind of sounds like a silly question but should I go ahead and keep Kingdra in the deck then?
Click to expand...

Yeah, keep it in the deck. Empoleon lacks a heavy hitter, and I'd love to see how Kingdra works as one.
 
- 1 Energy Search because you attack with 1 energy and you have plenty
- 1-2 Float Stone because energy you discard when retreating helps you set up (yep...)
+ 1 Colress is amazing lategame to get a 7-10 hand and those energies that went back to your deck so you can discard them again
+ 1 Juniper for discarding those Energies in your hand after shuffling them into your tiny deck lategame

Of course, they are good at all times, except Colress on the first turns, but it should be worth it.

Consider:
- Second Super Rod if your Pokémon lines seem to run out of steam.
- Life Dew ACE SPEC if you think CS is not really needed. Nobody expects it, and some decks don't even play Tool Scrapper. Most play none or one. They might very well discard the Scrapper with Juniper before you play the Dew.
 
So I went 3-3 with this deck at my local Battle Roads and came in 19th out of 27 players in my division which wasn't too bad I guess? I almost could've made 4-2 If I had beaten Weavile/Exeggcute/Darkrai EX in my 1st Round which I came really close to beating down to the wire.

Only problems I had were against Amoongus/Ninetales/Mew EX Status Phazing and against a Giratina lock deck with Mewtwo EX where I had a terrible opening hand. Aside from that I also managed to add 2 Mew EX and 1 Dowsing Machine that I picked up to help the deck work more consistently.

I was kind of surprised by how many people at my BR's were running Hypnotoxic Laser in their decks even without Virbank City Gym. I guess it's probably the 2nd best thing they could run without a playset of Catchers and it also sets up for easier KO's and prizes as well.
 
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