Discussion Excellent cards that people did not think would be good

Attix

Attix

Electric Delivery Driver from Washington
Member
I've been thinking about this for a while: what are some examples of cards that were thought to be mediocre at best to just plain bad at worst (or even cards that just flew under the radar) when they were first revealed that went on to be metagame-definers, or at least extremely good techs or rogues?
 
Mega audino counts I suppose. It won worlds so it deserves a mention. To be honest a lot of people doubted Lucario gxs potential, a that's done pretty well so far. Metagross gx is another one that people completely overlooked. It was never crazy good, but it did pretty well when GUR first released. I'm sure there's more but those are the ones I can think of off the too of my head
 
Evil Admonition Weavile was being hyped for about two weeks after it won (or got second, I can't remember) a regional in Sweden. Then it when back to being sort of meh.

Ironically, while CRI cards were being leaked, lots of people thought that Buzzwole would be "just ok" and if I remember correctly the majority of people were also underestimating how dominating Zoroark could become during the SLG leaks. Dawn Wings was also thought to be very bad until FLI came out - and in all honesty, rightfully so, as it was only made good by Malamar and the success of Buzz.
 
Wechselbalg said:
Evil Admonition Weavile was being hyped for about two weeks after it won (or got second, I can't remember) a regional in Sweden. Then it when back to being sort of meh.

Ironically, while CRI cards were being leaked, lots of people thought that Buzzwole would be "just ok" and if I remember correctly the majority of people were also underestimating how dominating Zoroark could become during the SLG leaks. Dawn Wings was also thought to be very bad until FLI came out - and in all honesty, rightfully so, as it was only made good by Malamar and the success of Buzz.
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Yeah, sometimes it does feel like the counter comes out before the thing it's supposed to counter does.
 
Briggete is a great example of this. however it could be said that was more because at the time of its release there was no lele and it was a heavy EX format. Otherwise it's hard to pinpoint a card that is underhyped tons of people playtest incoming cards and ween out the gimmick cards that look good but are ultimately unsuited for the format(Zygarde-GX). If I had to pick one pokemon card that people didnt look at enough at first is Dawn wings necrozma it was like a dollar for the the ULP cycle but then malamar comes out and its suddenly much more expensive. Goes to show cards that show possible promise are always worth picking up.
 
I think Wailord-EX is a pretty good example of this - everyone was so focused on its awful Ability/attack that they didn't account for how significant its bulk was. It wasn't until the Wailord stall deck broke out at 2015 US Nationals that people realized how oppressive it could be, and it's always had a solid place in the Expanded metagame ever since.

Another more recent example could be Dawn Wings Necrozma-GX - most people didn't even pay attention to its attacks before Malamar was released. When it first came out, DW Necrozma was used mainly for Invasion in hyper-offensive strategies like Ho-Oh/Kiawe that constantly needed to reset the effect of its big attack. I remember many saying it would never be THAT good, since it was weak to one of the most popular Pokemon in the format, Zoroark-GX. And... well, look at it now haha
 
Serperior said:
I don't think anyone has said this ever. In today's meta it's not as good, but no one doubted its potential impact upon release.

Zoroark-GX didn't receive the hype it had prior to legality. Lycanroc-GX was overlooked.
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If you go back and read some of the Pokebeach comments on the article first revealing Gardevoir-GX, you'd be surprised how many people dismissed it outright. "It's a Stage 2 - it'll never be consistent enough" "Its attack only does 30 damage from every Energy"

Of course, there were some even in that thread who were talking about how potentially good the card could be, but yeah... there were plenty of skeptics before the set actually dropped
 
Serperior said:
I don't think anyone has said this ever. In today's meta it's not as good, but no one doubted its potential impact upon release.

Zoroark-GX didn't receive the hype it had prior to legality. Lycanroc-GX was overlooked.
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Tons of people though it would be bad all from Gardivoir's reveal the way up to it's release. You can just look at her discussion on this very forum
 
I feel like Skyla hid under the radar for a while until Vika/Bulu became a thing. But once she rotates you replace her with Volkner
 
Articuno_Aria said:
I feel like Skyla hid under the radar for a while until Vika/Bulu became a thing. But once she rotates you replace her with Volkner
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Skyla was already a card for quite a while before it was reprinted in BREAKthrough, and it saw tons of play back when it first released. Hard to call that a card people didn't think would be good...
 
Practically no one knew what Donphan-PLS did before the release of Furious Fists, but the introduction of Strong Energy, Korrina, Focus Sash, Fighting Stadium, etc. allowed for it to become a great hit-and-run style deck that could reliably 2HKO almost the entire format, all while being able to protect the attacker by moving it to the Bench. It still shows up in Expanded from time to time if Zoroark gets too big.

While Trevenant-XY did see some play in Accelgor-DEX variants (use Accelgor to Paralyze, then promote Trevenant to lock items), it didn't become a metagame staple until BREAKpoint, with the release of Trevenant BREAK. Being able to spread damage while maintaining item lock was simply absurd, especially with support cards like Dimension Valley to make stringing attacks even easier. With the upcoming release of the Tapu Lele promo, this strategy will become even more powerful in Expanded.

Espeon-EX was largely seen as a gimmick card when it was first released, simply because many of the top archetypes of the metagame at the time (Night March, Yveltal, Seismitoad) relied on Basic attackers, so devolving wasn't really considered a valid strategy. It only became big at the start of the Sun & Moon era, where it found a useful partner in Decidueye-GX (spreading damage to Evolutions, then devolving) and a shift to a metagame that focused on strong Evolution Pokemon (since GXs often had massive HP, but evolved from Basics with relatively low HP). It still sees some play today in Standard spread decks, as well as Expanded Trevenant decks.

Finally, I feel that some of the Tool cards from BREAKpoint were not very popular when they were first released. Fighting Fury Belt was considered mediocre compared to Muscle Band, since the extra HP it provided wasn't very useful if the opponent just played Startling Megaphone/Xerosic. In the same vein, Bursting Balloon was initially considered mediocre, although it did see play in decks with relatively lower damage output, like Greninja and Trevenant. However, this was all in the XY-on Standard; when the format rotated to Primal Clash-on, all reliable forms of Tool removal were rotated out (this would remain the case until the release of Field Blower). With Muscle Band rotated, and no way to remove Fury Belts and Bursting Balloons, these cards suddenly became massively popular, largely defining the PRC-SUM format as grindy and focused primarily on trading 2HKOs.
 
AuraJackle said:
Briggete is a great example of this. however it could be said that was more because at the time of its release there was no lele and it was a heavy EX format. Otherwise it's hard to pinpoint a card that is underhyped tons of people playtest incoming cards and ween out the gimmick cards that look good but are ultimately unsuited for the format(Zygarde-GX). If I had to pick one pokemon card that people didnt look at enough at first is Dawn wings necrozma it was like a dollar for the the ULP cycle but then malamar comes out and its suddenly much more expensive. Goes to show cards that show possible promise are always worth picking up.
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Bridgett is why I sorted all of my trainers out of my bulk and started keeping them in their own box. You just never know!
 
Timmony_tcg said:
Skyla was already a card for quite a while before it was reprinted in BREAKthrough, and it saw tons of play back when it first released. Hard to call that a card people didn't think would be good...
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Skyla became more popular when VikaBulu was released, I should say. I forgot about the Boundaries Crossed one lol
 
Attix said:
I've been thinking about this for a while: what are some examples of cards that were thought to be mediocre at best to just plain bad at worst (or even cards that just flew under the radar) when they were first revealed that went on to be metagame-definers, or at least extremely good techs or rogues?
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The issue that makes this a dubious topic is the one that makes it a possible topic; our limited perception and understanding.

...

Wait! Comeback! I'm not trying to be a jerk! I'm just saying, I don't remember a time when there was 100% unanimous predictions about the quality of a card. Let's take an example of Pidget-EX; while it wasn't part of the BDIF, I remember most having a low opinion of it, and would never have predicted a deck built around it could take 9th place at a Regional... but that happened. So, why is it not an example? @crystal_pidgeot recognized that it had potential, at least if I remember correctly. ;)

Timmony_tcg said:
Practically no one knew what Donphan-PLS did before the release of Furious Fists, but the introduction of Strong Energy, Korrina, Focus Sash, Fighting Stadium, etc. allowed for it to become a great hit-and-run style deck that could reliably 2HKO almost the entire format, all while being able to protect the attacker by moving it to the Bench. It still shows up in Expanded from time to time if Zoroark gets too big.
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Unless someone was all "Hey! Donphan has potential! All that is required is..." and predicted the many chances to the card pool and metagame that made Donphan work, not the least of which was Pokémon Catcher receiving an erratum so that it required a coin flip to work, I'm pretty sure it shouldn't count as an example. ;)

In fact, I wouldn't count any time a card becomes good due to the release of a future piece of support or because it countered a future popular card unless someone predicted that... oh wait, we're looking for cards no one saw being good, and like I said, usually one person at least claims a card will be good. @_@ If we were evaluating someone's predictions about whether or not a card was good or bad, I recommend it be about more than a "Yay"/"Nay" thing.
 
Otaku said:
The issue that makes this a dubious topic is the one that makes it a possible topic; our limited perception and understanding.

...

Wait! Comeback! I'm not trying to be a jerk! I'm just saying, I don't remember a time when there was 100% unanimous predictions about the quality of a card. Let's take an example of Pidget-EX; while it wasn't part of the BDIF, I remember most having a low opinion of it, and would never have predicted a deck built around it could take 9th place at a Regional... but that happened. So, why is it not an example? @crystal_pidgeot recognized that it had potential, at least if I remember correctly. ;)



Unless someone was all "Hey! Donphan has potential! All that is required is..." and predicted the many chances to the card pool and metagame that made Donphan work, not the least of which was Pokémon Catcher receiving an erratum so that it required a coin flip to work, I'm pretty sure it shouldn't count as an example. ;)

In fact, I wouldn't count any time a card becomes good due to the release of a future piece of support or because it countered a future popular card unless someone predicted that... oh wait, we're looking for cards no one saw being good, and like I said, usually one person at least claims a card will be good. @_@ If we were evaluating someone's predictions about whether or not a card was good or bad, I recommend it be about more than a "Yay"/"Nay" thing.
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I do think Pidgeot-EX is a good example of this but I didn't want to be the one to mention it before someone else (looking at that ban I got...), but you mentioned it. Mirror Move is one of those moves I still think is viable in the meta because of synergy it has with cards in the format. Max Potion, Fighting Fury Belt, Shining Celebi (if used with Mega Pidgeot) and be use FFB tricks and seeing that deck make 9th at a tournament made me feel like I contributed to the meta a bit. Simply being able to fire off a 160+ damage move for one Energy with the healing options available just has a ton of potential in both Standard and Expanded.
 
If we're talking about standard format (BKT-FOL at the timing of this post):

Metagross-GX seemed like a very good GX after it's regional win near the release of Guardians Rising, but then when Forbidden Light came out and gave a lot of speed to the winning decks, him and Gardevoir-GX both slipped under the radar.

Brigette was a card that went from a quarter or 2 to near $10 (and that makes me regret buying copies initially hard). Once people figured out you can just use Tapu Lele-GX to get Brigette and setup (esspecially when Zoroark-GX came out), the card went from forgotten to went in 90% of decks in standard (I say 90% because Buzzroc doesn't use this card).

Cynthia I guess was a tad bit underrated (I think?) initially if the card went from 2 to 3 dollars to currently 4 or 5. I'll give her a mention since she's going to be the best draw supporter post-rotation and she'll probably jump up in price a little more drastically.

M Audino-EX was really good 2 years ago, but nowadays Night March is gone so it doesn't have any threat it could beat and it can't take a hit from either Buzzwole or any form of Necrozma so her playability is gone.

Just simply look at the news thread when Golisopod-GX was first revealed (Here, I'll give you a link to the past) and you'll find a good amount of people who looked at it and either thought it was bad or a meh card, then it went on to not only place 2nd at Worlds with Garbodor, but became one of the best decks of the format pre-Forbidden Light.

If we're talking about older formats:

I've heard Celebi Prime used to be card nobody wanted until they used it in Mewtwo decks and then it became pretty good, most notably in CMT Decks (Celebi Mewtwo Tornadus if you don't get the abbreviation). I'm in the middle of building 2012 so I might learn more about the format.

Back in 2004 format, Team Magma won the world championships that year (and in every devision I might add) and that deck wasn't well known at all at the time. Most of the format still had the Delcatty / Magneton engine to draw cards and recycle energies but this deck didn't rely on it. I could be wrong on a few things about this though do don't quote me on that.

Lesson learned: The people at TPCi knows how to make hidden gems for this game and they've struck gold 80% of the time for most of the sets. Can never really call a card bad nowadays.
 
Machamp GX, Gyarados GX, and Wishiwashi GX all for this description well. Except that people still don't realize the big water guys have potential since the deck hasn't been solved, and Machamp is too slow now with Buzz around. Before Buzz, I was frequently beating nearly every meta deck with Machamp.

I'm still working on making Gyarados work, but the consistency just isn't there with the builds I've been trying. It's only 50/50 in my matchups, and the autowins just aren't played these days.
 
JGB146 said:
Machamp GX, Gyarados GX, and Wishiwashi GX all for this description well. Except that people still don't realize the big water guys have potential since the deck hasn't been solved, and Machamp is too slow now with Buzz around. Before Buzz, I was frequently beating nearly every meta deck with Machamp.

I'm still working on making Gyarados work, but the consistency just isn't there with the builds I've been trying. It's only 50/50 in my matchups, and the autowins just aren't played these days.
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I agree on Wishiwashi-GX - in Expanded, it became a great one-of tech in Wailord builds because it had Lightning weakness rather than Grass, which allowed it to better tank hits from things like Golisopod-GX and Vespiquen that usually gave Wailord so much trouble. It also saw some representation in Standard thanks to the rogue-master himself, Yoshi Tate, paired with Xurkitree-GX and Hoopa-SLG to create a less powerful, yet still formidable, stall deck.

Unfortunately, I don't think Machamp-GX or Gyarados-GX have ever seen any real tournament success, nor have they received much attention in the metagame. I think there may have been murmurs of Machamp's viability back when Zoroark was the biggest deck in Standard, but that never translated to any real results. That's not to say that these cards couldn't break through to popularity someday, since they still have a relatively long competitive life-span, but... If we're talking about cards that the community at large dismissed at first, then later came to embrace as good or game-changing cards, I'm not sure that applies here.
 
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