Discussion Fatalities of Next Rotation

pine_ddog

pine_ddog

Chaotic Neuteral
Member
Next season's rotation has been announced, so I made a list of all competitive cards we will be losing this year. About 30 important cards are rotating, the only decks that will be completely obliterated by this rotation are Greninja BREAK and Volcanion-EX. Garbodor and Zoroark variants will take a hit from rotation, but won't be ruined. Buzzwole is the biggest loser with Regirock EX, and Strong Energy rotating, but will still be competitive.
  • Octillery (BKT 36)
  • Zoroark (BKT 91)
  • Brigrtte (BKT 134)
  • Float Stone (BKT 137)
  • Parallel City (BKT 145)
  • Super Rod (BKT 149)
  • Frogadier (BKP 39)
  • Greninja (BKP 40)
  • Greninja BREAK (BKP 41)
  • Espeon EX (BKP 52)
  • Garbodor (BKP 57)
  • Bursting Balloon (BKP 97)
  • Fighting Fury Belt (BKP 99)
  • Max Elixir (BKP 103)
  • Puzzle of Time (BKP 109)
  • Skyla (BKP 122)
  • Team Flare Grunt (GEN 73)
  • Regirock EX (FAC 43)
  • Carbink (FAC 50)
  • Carbink BREAK (FAC 51)
  • Zygarde EX (FAC 54)
  • Strong Energy (FAC 104)
  • N (FAC 105)
  • Volcanion (STS 25)
  • Volcanion EX (STS 26)
  • Special Charge (STS 105)
  • Professor Sycamore (STS 114)
  • Mewtwo (EVO 51)
  • Mew EX (XY126)
Loses per Set:

BREAKpoint (9)
BREAKthrough (7)
Fates Collide (6)
Steam Siege (4)
Generations (1)/Evolutions (1)/XY Promos (1)

Worst Loses for Standard
  1. Professor Sycamore
  2. N
  3. Float Stone
  4. Brigette
  5. Super Ror
  6. Garbodor
  7. Max Elixir
  8. Puzzle of Time
  9. Parallel City
  10. Special Charge
Overall, not that bad of a rotation. We lost a lot of important trainer cards which should slow the meta down, but no prominent archetype's were ruined, and the meta won't really change as much as it usually does with a rotation.
 
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You forgot about Garb buddy boy. Easily more important than Special Charge and Zoroark rotating. Octillery is a huge loss as well.

Strong Energy is also a major card rotating.
 
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Strong Energy and Regirock rotating will certainly be felt in Buzzwole decks, and Max Elixir rotating is another heavy hit, so Buzzwole will probably see a drop in use. I predict persisting Buzz's will end up relying on Beast Energy {*} and Diancie {*} for damage, which is not really ideal.

Float Stone rotating affects many strategies as well. In particular, Ultra Necrozma/Malamar will likely shift toward using Altar of the Moone to get that important Invasion/Retreat off smoothly. They might even use Escape Board since DW Necrozma only has 2 retreat and you can Psychic Recharge the remaining energy back.

Brigette rotating will affect Lele's usage, since that T1 Brigette is Lele's most popular use, but Wonder Tag is still really good as a clutch so I don't foresee a significant drop in usage, and it will still be very expensive.

Garbotoxin rotating essentially kills Regigigas, which was rogue anyway, and also makes ability-reliant decks that much more dangerous. Expect Glaceon GX and Slaking when it releases to be popular replacements.

Sycamore and N rotating will slow down things quite a bit to where defensive and mill decks might end up on the rise.

That's just my personal predictions.
 
N rotating isn't that big of a deal since we have Judge. N is great when you are behind but the moment you take out a GX, Judge becomes the better card.
 
ForeverRanger91 said:
N rotating isn't that big of a deal since we have Judge. N is great when you are behind but the moment you take out a GX, Judge becomes the better card.
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My main use for N is for late game disruption -- can't count how many games I have won (or lost!) that would have gone the other way without a late game N. Getting your opponent down to 1 or 2 cards is quite different from 4. But I do agree with you that judge serves as a replacement to N (just a much inferior one).
 
Attix said:
Strong Energy and Regirock rotating will certainly be felt in Buzzwole decks, and Max Elixir rotating is another heavy hit, so Buzzwole will probably see a drop in use. I predict persisting Buzz's will end up relying on Beast Energy {*} and Diancie {*} for damage, which is not really ideal.
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...Won't rotation help Buzzwole greatly?
 
TatsuyaOrimuta said:
How exactly?
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Trendy67 said:
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None of those have anything to do with rotation. It's like saying "Buzzwole is better deck post rotaiton because of Choice Band"
 
CrownAxe said:
None of those have anything to do with rotation. It's like saying "Buzzwole is better deck post rotaiton because of Choice Band"
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Exactly. While these may be great supports, I still predict Buzzwole being worse off post-rotation due to those three key losses. Sure, Beast Energy is stronger than Strong Energy, but you can only have one per deck, whereas you can have extra Strong Energy ready to go on your next Buzzwole if needed, and also if that Beast Energy is discarded, there's no retrieving it. Diancie might be better than Regirock in isolation (+20 for one bench space, only coughs up one prize), but again, if it's discarded there's no retrieving it and you can only have one per deck. And without Max Elixir, trying to get it able to use Knuckle Impact and Absorption GX without it being KO'd really gums up its fast, aggressive strategy.

I still don't think rotation completely clips it, but I don't foresee it being top tier after this year's Worlds wraps up.
 
pine_ddog said:
Next season's rotation has been announced, so I made a list of all competitive cards we will be losing this year. About 30 important cards are rotating, the only decks that will be completely obliterated by this rotation are Greninja BREAK and Volcanion-EX. Garbodor and Zoroark variants will take a hit from rotation, but won't be ruined. Buzzwole is the biggest loser with Regirock EX, and Strong Energy rotating, but will still be competitive.
  • Octillery (BKT 36)
  • Zoroark (BKT 91)
  • Brigrtte (BKT 134)
  • Float Stone (BKT 137)
  • Parallel City (BKT 145)
  • Super Rod (BKT 149)
  • Frogadier (BKP 39)
  • Greninja (BKP 40)
  • Greninja BREAK (BKP 41)
  • Espeon EX (BKP 52)
  • Garbodor (BKP 57)
  • Bursting Balloon (BKP 97)
  • Fighting Fury Belt (BKP 99)
  • Max Elixir (BKP 103)
  • Puzzle of Time (BKP 109)
  • Skyla (BKP 122)
  • Team Flare Grunt (GEN 73)
  • Regirock EX (FAC 43)
  • Carbink (FAC 50)
  • Carbink BREAK (FAC 51)
  • Zygarde EX (FAC 54)
  • Strong Energy (FAC 104)
  • N (FAC 105)
  • Volcanion (STS 25)
  • Volcanion EX (STS 26)
  • Special Charge (STS 105)
  • Professor Sycamore (STS 114)
  • Mewtwo (EVO 51)
  • Mew EX (XY126)
Loses per Set:

BREAKpoint (9)
BREAKthrough (7)
Fates Collide (6)
Steam Siege (4)
Generations (1)/Evolutions (1)/XY Promos (1)

Worst Loses for Standard
  1. Professor Sycamore
  2. N
  3. Float Stone
  4. Brigette
  5. Super Ror
  6. Garbodor
  7. Max Elixir
  8. Puzzle of Time
  9. Parallel City
  10. Special Charge
Overall, not that bad of a rotation. We lost a lot of important trainer cards which should slow the meta down, but no prominent archetype's were ruined, and the meta won't really change as much as it usually does with a rotation.
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pine_ddog said:
Next season's rotation has been announced, so I made a list of all competitive cards we will be losing this year. About 30 important cards are rotating, the only decks that will be completely obliterated by this rotation are Greninja BREAK and Volcanion-EX. Garbodor and Zoroark variants will take a hit from rotation, but won't be ruined. Buzzwole is the biggest loser with Regirock EX, and Strong Energy rotating, but will still be competitive.
  • Octillery (BKT 36)
  • Zoroark (BKT 91)
  • Brigrtte (BKT 134)
  • Float Stone (BKT 137)
  • Parallel City (BKT 145)
  • Super Rod (BKT 149)
  • Frogadier (BKP 39)
  • Greninja (BKP 40)
  • Greninja BREAK (BKP 41)
  • Espeon EX (BKP 52)
  • Garbodor (BKP 57)
  • Bursting Balloon (BKP 97)
  • Fighting Fury Belt (BKP 99)
  • Max Elixir (BKP 103)
  • Puzzle of Time (BKP 109)
  • Skyla (BKP 122)
  • Team Flare Grunt (GEN 73)
  • Regirock EX (FAC 43)
  • Carbink (FAC 50)
  • Carbink BREAK (FAC 51)
  • Zygarde EX (FAC 54)
  • Strong Energy (FAC 104)
  • N (FAC 105)
  • Volcanion (STS 25)
  • Volcanion EX (STS 26)
  • Special Charge (STS 105)
  • Professor Sycamore (STS 114)
  • Mewtwo (EVO 51)
  • Mew EX (XY126)
Loses per Set:

BREAKpoint (9)
BREAKthrough (7)
Fates Collide (6)
Steam Siege (4)
Generations (1)/Evolutions (1)/XY Promos (1)

Worst Loses for Standard
  1. Professor Sycamore
  2. N
  3. Float Stone
  4. Brigette
  5. Super Ror
  6. Garbodor
  7. Max Elixir
  8. Puzzle of Time
  9. Parallel City
  10. Special Charge
Overall, not that bad of a rotation. We lost a lot of important trainer cards which should slow the meta down, but no prominent archetype's were ruined, and the meta won't really change as much as it usually does with a rotation.
Click to expand...
Evosoda from GEN?
 
So with all the losers, with rotation what do you guys think are the biggest winners?
 
CrownAxe said:
Gardevoir is losing Gallade, Brigette, and Octillery
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I've been out of the loop for a while, but Gardevoir can still play Zoroark GX over Octillery, Pokemon Fan Club over Brigette, and the Sylveon GX build is still a thing as well. I believe there was a Miltank heal build that also won a while back that isn't getting touched.

I think the only real Gardevoir specific loss is Gallade since any deck playing Brigette will now play Pokemon Fan Club, and any other deck looking for extra draw power also loses Octillery which makes it "even." Gallade is a really convenient response to Zoroark GX, but it's not like Gardevoir GX struggles to OHKO Zoroark GX (assuming DCE attached to Zoroark GX, only takes 2 Fairy, 1 DCE, and choice band for OHKO) whereas Zoroark GX has a harder time getting over Gardevoir GX's dark resist and 230 HP. Choice Band and full bench is required to 2 hit KO, or at least 5 Pokemon in play for one hit (100 + 30 - 20 = 110), and full 6 for the next (130). Full bench is slightly harder now with Pokemon Fan Club in and Brigette out.

In some ways, the fact that Gardevoir/fairy decks can viably run a super powerful search engine in the form of Sylveon GX in an environment where we're losing Octillery, N, and Sycamore at the same time might actually put them ahead of the game. It kind of used to be a sort of Octillery vs Sylveon GX kind of deal in terms of deck space. Now it's just roll Sylveon GX and no one else has Octillery for draw power, and as previously mentioned, Fairy resists Zoroark GX's damage. And while Steven does what Sylveon GX does in its attack, you're still using your supporter for turn instead of being able to Sylveon GX search as well as Cynthia, Pokemon Fan Club, Guzma, etc.

All that being said, I think Gardevoir GX is still going to get steamrolled by steel decks and whenever the new Solgaleo GX decides to finally be released. Also the loss of Float Stone and Fairy Garden makes Gardevoir GX very clunky to start, and no more super rod means retreating for energy cost would force you to Twilight GX instead of use Sylveon GX's in a bad match up vs steel. A few copies of Switch are going to be forced in any deck that isn't a 1 energy retreat cost that can play Escape Board, I'd like to imagine.

I'm also hoping we can all do with less copies of Field Blower as a card that bricks opening hands now that Garbotoxin is out of standard, leaving Choice Band and select Stadiums as the only things to use it on.
 
Professor_jplap said:
...Won't rotation help Buzzwole greatly?
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Not really.

The loss of Max Elixir and Float Stone REALLY take away from making early aggressive plays. The loss of Strong Energy limit its extra damage output. The only way Buzzwole will be able to hit OHKO numbers against any GX over 190 is through two Prism Star cards. If Either Beast Energy or Diancie get taken out of play, it cripples Buzzwole greatly.

Buzzwole will still be a good deck, but it'll be around the upper-end of tier-2. It loses a good chunk of speed, and the rotation looks like it's going to be riddled with Psychic Pokemon.
 
While Buzzwole loses consistency I feel this means Raichu and potentially even Silvally get better. At the same time it's hard to gauge by how much as a lot of the Buzzwole techs people use against it are also rotating, which means Latios may see a significant increase in play post rotation to counter Buzzwole.
 
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