Discussion Future Primal Groudon

RedGyarados

RedGyarados

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Hey guys! Want to know about your opinion about P. Groudon next season.
Would it still be competitive?

Thanks!
 
absolutely, it's not losing anything in special with the rotation, except for computer search, but you can replace it with Teammates, N you can replace with trainer's mail and so on, it will still be very powerful
 
Yea it will still be good. The deck will still have all the main core cards. I believe the Wobbuffet version will still be the best one post-rotation.
 
With Ancient Origins coming up, do you think it would stand a chance against those Grass types? Namely Sceptile and probably vespiquen?
Edit: Giratina with vileplume as well I think would be problematic
 
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Groudon decks will probably be tier 3 at best. Roaring Skies was not kind to it; Mega Rayquaza brought it down a peg and Beautifly--with its unaffected-by-Silent-Lab flavor of Safeguard--is literally Primal Groudon's worst nightmare. With most of our Safeguard Pokemon getting rotated and Grass getting a buff with Mega Sceptile and Giant Plant Forest, Beautifly will definitely see play.

Ancient Origins is also bringing a bunch of cards that make Groudon's life hell. Mega Sceptile and Vespiquen can thrash it. Hoopa-EX can snipe it. Mega Tyranitar OHKOs after just two bats. Giratina-EX and Kyurem-EX can both wall it. Faded Town will wear it down, forcing Groudon to play his stadiums early (or avoid Mega Evolving and risk the Lysandre). Registeel can discard your Energy, slowing the setup of a second Groudon, and only gives up one prize.

Mega Sceptile is definitely the biggest thorn in Groudon's side. If he swaps out the Spirit Link for a Muscle Band, Jagged Saber is a OHKO. He also sets up faster than you do and can recover from losing a Mega Sceptile almost instantly whereas you... can't.

Groudon is still good at what he does, but his future isn't bright.
 
PMJ said:
Groudon decks will probably be tier 3 at best. Roaring Skies was not kind to it; Mega Rayquaza brought it down a peg and Beautifly--with its unaffected-by-Silent-Lab flavor of Safeguard--is literally Primal Groudon's worst nightmare. With most of our Safeguard Pokemon getting rotated and Grass getting a buff with Mega Sceptile and Giant Plant Forest, Beautifly will definitely see play.

Ancient Origins is also bringing a bunch of cards that make Groudon's life hell. Mega Sceptile and Vespiquen can thrash it. Hoopa-EX can snipe it. Mega Tyranitar OHKOs after just two bats. Giratina-EX and Kyurem-EX can both wall it. Faded Town will wear it down, forcing Groudon to play his stadiums early (or avoid Mega Evolving and risk the Lysandre). Registeel can discard your Energy, slowing the setup of a second Groudon, and only gives up one prize.

Mega Sceptile is definitely the biggest thorn in Groudon's side. If he swaps out the Spirit Link for a Muscle Band, Jagged Saber is a OHKO. He also sets up faster than you do and can recover from losing a Mega Sceptile almost instantly whereas you... can't.

Groudon is still good at what he does, but his future isn't bright.
Click to expand...

My feelings exactly. Theta Double is a huge boon to TTar in the match up, as you can easily tech in a Weakness Policy to deal with the weakness. Grass is big next season, really big.

PGroudon needs so so much to go right for it now a days. Depending on the meta, I might not even consider it tiered anymore, or Tier 4 at best.
 
The only thing that comes into my mind a Groudon / Wobuffet Deck loses is Float Stone… But AOR has way to much hate for Primal Groudon :D
 
It might be worth it to forgo the Spirit Link entirely and use Weakness Policy instead. If you're using Wobbuffet as your lead, you don't have much to lose. I'll do some testing and see how it goes.

I really want to like the reprint. There are a couple pros to Theta Max - mainly that there is reduced pressure to stay healthy since all your damage is healed when you evolve. A well-timed evolution could seal the game in your favor, or at the very least set your opponent back a turn or two. It also lets you avoid Faded Town damage.

However, immunity to hammers and, most importantly and especially, Lysandre means Omega Barrier is the AT of choice like 99% of the time. You out-stadium your opponent no matter what so getting Faded Town out of play should never be an issue.
 
Weakness Policy looks to be something to alleviate Groudon and Kyogre's weakness.

I am wondering though, what about also teching in Fire Pokemon. Entei (non Ancient Trait) seems to be a good counter to Fire weak Pokemon.

Entei - Fire – HP120
Basic Pokemon

[C] Burning Scent: Discard the top 4 cards of your deck. Attach any [R] Energy you find there to your Pokemon in any way you like.

[R][R] Combat Blaze: 20+ damage. This attack does 20 more damage for each of your opponent’s Benched Pokemon.

Weakness: Water (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 2

For only 2 Fire Energy, you could hit Grass Pokemon for 240 damage! The only problem though, is how it will affect the consistency of both decks, especially GroBuffet.
 
That is probably not a viable solution. Groudon decks focus all their resources on getting Groudon powered up and murdering. If Entei's attack cost CC instead of RR, the strategy would have some merit; however, forcing yourself to split your energy in order to attack with a Pokemon who is just going to get revenge killed next turn anyway will not get you far in terms of maintaining consistency.

Charizard FLF #12 is probably your least invasive option in terms of Fire-type attackers. For CCC it does 60 damage. It's still not ideal, though, as it's still a Pokemon-EX and you have no way to accelerate Energy onto it unless you run lots of Energy Switch.

This deck loses Scramble Switch in the rotation, which is a very sad thing.
 
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