Standard Delete

[swan]

I have tried the Giratina variant. Perhaps I am simply not good enough, but I found that it did not work and it didn't work in spectacular fashion LOL!!!! The Mega Turbos are far more reliable IMO.

That's true, I'm just giving the guy room to experiment. I'm so glad the days when people hyped and tried to play xern/tina are over. My lack of surpise to it never top 32 almost astounds me!
Dayum togekiss/darkrai sounds fun! I assume you've tried it (and it didn't work), but with all the setup needed I just thought to myself: xern/kiss!

Not to go too far off topic, but I honestly thought that tweaking TCG_Destroyer's list by removing some cards you think are too expensive / not available + adding some of the cards you like better would have been a good idea

Watch out, this guy has a serious jerk reaction to the idea of playtesting decks that other people have built.

 

[Fayld]

That's true, I'm just giving the guy room to experiment. I'm so glad the days when people hyped and tried to play xern/tina are over. My lack of surpise to it never top 32 almost astounds me!
Dayum togekiss/darkrai sounds fun! I assume you've tried it (and it didn't work), but with all the setup needed I just thought to myself: xern/kiss!

I have played the beejesus out of that deck actually! I love the deck. And it does work pretty consistently actually given that you almost always get 3-5 cracks at a Togesplosion in a game (I am running 3 devolution sprays). But the issue is finding the fine balance between too much energy and not enough energy. 11 is not enough. the Togesplode doesn't explode explosively enough. 12 energy is better, but still not enough. 13 energy is the perfect Togesplode almost every game. Buuuuut, 13 energy clogs the crap out of the deck making the draw engine far less reliable meaning your chances of hitting that Togesplosion in a timely manner are significantly reduced.

Might work with Xerneas Break. I never tried that approach. I was trying a cluttered Xerneas / Togekiss / Brilliant Arrow Gardevoir combo and that was nothing but hot garbage. That gave rise to the Darkrai variant lol!

Main thing I was trying to point out with my post in here though is that it isn't a copy paste to take a good list that another player provides and then do whatever you want to it. Starting from scratch has merits and that can be a lot of fun and sometimes you really nail something. But sometimes taking an idea that someone else had that was a staple and then twisting it to your own approach is every bit as creative. I feel a strong sense of pride with my Rayquaza / Eelektross deck because I think it stands up to anything competitively. It is my own deck with my own approach, but it is definitely rooted in the original Ray / Eels concept. But I can take pride in my own deck idea because I literally haven't seen anyone else ever post about running a competitive Ray / Eels deck featuring Eelektross. I am sure others have done it, but I have never run across it online. Not once. As far as I am concerned, that is my original creation.

Not trying to derail the thread, but that is my point of view. An original deck list is great and is something I think a ton of competitive players strive to achieve. But ultimately, the likelihood that you stumbled onto an original gold mine that can walk into a tournament and lock it down is almost unfathomable to me. It could happen (I am looking at you Audino) and you will look like an absolute genius for doing it. But most times that is still a "right time, right place" kind of deck (I am still looking at you Audino).

Sorry for the book

 

[TCG_Destory]

With my Despair Ray deck seeing not particularly good matchups against many of the new decks (that almost everyone is playing at the moment), I have made a decision to switch to something else, at least for now, and considering the new decks' attributes and what I felt like playing at the moment, the Brilliant Arrow Mega Gardevoir came as my first choice.
First off, there are many things I really appreciate about this deck:
-Free Retreat
-Almost unaffected by Ability lock
-No special Energy
-Constant and reliable one-hit Knock Outs
-Darkness Resistance
-Non-EX starter/potential attacker, which means the opponent has a harder time taking six Prizes
Of course, speed is not an advantage, but keeping Xerneas alive or streaming them means that you will still be able to set up properly and do what the deck intends to (You can defeat Despair Ray if you pull off the right plays on the first three turns and the opponent cannot respond fast enough). This deck, given time, gets deadly, which is why cards that can slow your opponent down, such as Escape Rope (without overdoing it at the cost of consistency) , are important. After your opponent's first three turns, this deck will start dealing one-hit Knock Outs, in 210 or 240 damage, even getting to a point where Stage 2 GX's are threatened at times.
I've come up with a list, for which I am missing a few cards that I will buy in the day, to then start testing it. Here is my projected list, at the moment:

Pokémon - 13
4 Gardevoir EX STS
3 M Gardevoir EX PCL
4 Xerneas XY
2 Shaymin EX ROS

Trainer - 36
3 Fairy Garden XY

1 Brock's Grit EVO
1 Hex Maniac AOR
2 Lysandre FLF
3 N FCO
4 Professor Sycamore XY

3 Escape Rope PCL
4 Gardevoir Spirit Link PCL
3 Mega Turbo ROS
4 Trainer's Mail ROS
4 Ultra Ball DEX
4 VS Seeker PHF

Energy - 11
11 Fairy Energy XY

I could make a couple of changes though, for instance cutting two or three cards to add Fairy Drop if I want to run that card, although with Professor Kukui becoming a popular staple I might not bother to.

For anyone looking to make this budget, you can cut the two Shaymin-EX (which I will include for added consistency in my list), cut two of the Trainer's Mail, add in one N, one Skyla, and either two Fairy Drop or one Fairy Energy and one Fairy Garden. Xerneas BREAK STS is a good option too in my opinion, as its Life Stream synergizes with Geomancy and the overall functionment of the deck.

You may have noticed that I've included no way to discard Benched Pokémon; you can include Parallel City if you'd like for both Mega Rayquaza-EX and bumping your Shaymin-EX, but I do not think getting rid of them is imperative, for your opponent using Lysandre to Knock them Out means that they do not hurt attackers, and still have to knock at least two Pokémon out. Despair Ray is also absent from this list, as I've decided to make it a pure Brilliant Arrow build.

As a side note, my apologies if I started some kind of war on this thread. I did acknowledge that I have been insufficiently caring for what neoshai had to say about the Pokémon TCG costing excessive amounts of money to him. I have to admit, I do think that the BREAKthrough-on format to come, which for now seems to be much more budget-friendly than the current one, looks nice, and I wish some cards from previous rotations still existed in the Standard format (Battle Compressor is an example). I respect neoshai's opinion, but I believe this hate on everything with the competitive label, although somewhat justifiable, is wrong in that it puts every top player in the same boat.

I am open to suggestions regarding my list too. Even if this creates a thread inside of another.

 

[Fayld]

With my Despair Ray deck seeing not particularly good matchups against many of the new decks (that almost everyone is playing at the moment), I have made a decision to switch to something else, at least for now, and considering the new decks' attributes and what I felt like playing at the moment, the Brilliant Arrow Mega Gardevoir came as my first choice.
First off, there are many things I really appreciate about this deck:
-Free Retreat
-Almost unaffected by Ability lock
-No special Energy
-Constant and reliable one-hit Knock Outs
-Darkness Resistance
-Non-EX starter/potential attacker, which means the opponent has a harder time taking six Prizes
Of course, speed is not an advantage, but keeping Xerneas alive or streaming them means that you will still be able to set up properly and do what the deck intends to (You can defeat Despair Ray if you pull off the right plays on the first three turns and the opponent cannot respond fast enough). This deck, given time, gets deadly, which is why cards that can slow your opponent down, such as Escape Rope (without overdoing it at the cost of consistency) , are important. After your opponent's first three turns, this deck will start dealing one-hit Knock Outs, in 210 or 240 damage, even getting to a point where Stage 2 GX's are threatened at times.
I've come up with a list, for which I am missing a few cards that I will buy in the day, to then start testing it. Here is my projected list, at the moment:

Pokémon - 13
4 Gardevoir EX STS
3 M Gardevoir EX PCL
4 Xerneas XY
2 Shaymin EX ROS

Trainer - 36
3 Fairy Garden XY

1 Brock's Grit EVO
1 Hex Maniac AOR
2 Lysandre FLF
3 N FCO
4 Professor Sycamore XY

3 Escape Rope PCL
4 Gardevoir Spirit Link PCL
3 Mega Turbo ROS
4 Trainer's Mail ROS
4 Ultra Ball DEX
4 VS Seeker PHF

Energy - 11
11 Fairy Energy XY

I could make a couple of changes though, for instance cutting two or three cards to add Fairy Drop if I want to run that card, although with Professor Kukui becoming a popular staple I might not bother to.

For anyone looking to make this budget, you can cut the two Shaymin-EX (which I will include for added consistency in my list), cut two of the Trainer's Mail, add in one N, one Skyla, and either two Fairy Drop or one Fairy Energy and one Fairy Garden. Xerneas BREAK STS is a good option too in my opinion, as its Life Stream synergizes with Geomancy and the overall functionment of the deck.

You may have noticed that I've included no way to discard Benched Pokémon; you can include Parallel City if you'd like for both Mega Rayquaza-EX and bumping your Shaymin-EX, but I do not think getting rid of them is imperative, for your opponent using Lysandre to Knock them Out means that they do not hurt attackers, and still have to knock at least two Pokémon out. Despair Ray is also absent from this list, as I've decided to make it a pure Brilliant Arrow build.

As a side note, my apologies if I started some kind of war on this thread. I did acknowledge that I have been insufficiently caring for what neoshai had to say about the Pokémon TCG costing excessive amounts of money to him. I have to admit, I do think that the BREAKthrough-on format to come, which for now seems to be much more budget-friendly than the current one, looks nice, and I wish some cards from previous rotations still existed in the Standard format (Battle Compressor is an example). I respect neoshai's opinion, but I believe this hate on everything with the competitive label, although somewhat justifiable, is wrong in that it puts every top player in the same boat.

I am open to suggestions regarding my list too. Even if this creates a thread inside of another.

If you are going to play brilliant arrow gardevoir, you absolutely have to have the despair ray variant as at least a one of to control the M Mewtwo match up. It also clears your board as you pointed out.

My list...NOT budget.

Pokemon - 14
4 Xerneas AOR
3 Gardevoir EX (pick the flavor you prefer)
2 M Gardevoir EX PC
2 M Gardevoir EX STS
2 Shaymin EX
1 pick a basic (Lugia EX, Tauros GX, etc.)

Trainers - 36
4 Professor Sycamore
3 Lillie
1 N
1 Lysandre
1 Hex Maniac
1 Pokemon Center Lady
1 Brock's Grit

4 Gardevoir Spirit Link

4 VS Seeker
4 Ultra Ball
3 Trainer's Mail
3 Mega Turbo
2 Fairy Drop
1 Escape Rope

2 Fairy Garden
1 Pick Fairy Garden, Parallel City, Silent Lab

Energy - 10
10 Fairy Energy

I already know what I am going to hear. 3 Lillie? Yep. This deck falls behind far too quickly to get a T1 N shuffle draw 6. It relies heavily on cycling through cards while keeping what you need in hand. Lillie isn't for every deck, but she is pretty outstanding in this one.

The main thing though is that STS Mega allows you to start putting pressure on early if you need to get an edge. PC Mega is your sweep / hammer.

Anyway, hope that helps.

 

[TCG_Destory]

If you are going to play brilliant arrow gardevoir, you absolutely have to have the despair ray variant as at least a one of to control the M Mewtwo match up. It also clears your board as you pointed out.

My list...NOT budget.

Pokemon - 14
4 Xerneas AOR
3 Gardevoir EX (pick the flavor you prefer)
2 M Gardevoir EX PC
2 M Gardevoir EX STS
2 Shaymin EX
1 pick a basic (Lugia EX, Tauros GX, etc.)

Trainers - 36
4 Professor Sycamore
3 Lillie
1 N
1 Lysandre
1 Hex Maniac
1 Pokemon Center Lady
1 Brock's Grit

4 Gardevoir Spirit Link

4 VS Seeker
4 Ultra Ball
3 Trainer's Mail
3 Mega Turbo
2 Fairy Drop
1 Escape Rope

2 Fairy Garden
1 Pick Fairy Garden, Parallel City, Silent Lab

Energy - 10
10 Fairy Energy

I already know what I am going to hear. 3 Lillie? Yep. This deck falls behind far too quickly to get a T1 N shuffle draw 6. It relies heavily on cycling through cards while keeping what you need in hand. Lillie isn't for every deck, but she is pretty outstanding in this one.

The main thing though is that STS Mega allows you to start putting pressure on early if you need to get an edge. PC Mega is your sweep / hammer.

Anyway, hope that helps.

I used to put a copy of the Despair Ray Mega Gardevoir in my Brilliant Arrow decks, which works and puts pressure on, but in this particular build, I am looking to use Geomancy on the first couple of turns in order to then start destroying the opposing team with Brilliant Arrow. If I am facing small Pokémon (say Vespiquen), then, let's say I go second, I can use Geomancy on my first turn, attach and use a Mega Turbo on my second turn, retreat and then start causing 150 damage, which will increase with turns. This combo, in my previous builds, has proven not to be very hard to achieve, when it was needed to pull it off. It is very useful against Greninja BREAK too, and then the increasing damage means that the BREAK will go down too. In most cases, where I will Geomancy twice and thus my opponent will get three turns before I start going for the offensive, I will still have slowdown potential with Escape Rope, which is also used early game to start using Geomancy as early as possible, and there is a possibility to run Enhanced Hammer or even Silent Lab (as you've mentioned) for the same purposes. I think a 2-2 Mega Gardevoir split means that the list is not really Brilliant Arrow anymore, but that one greatly helps in situations, although as I am going to build a pure Brilliant Arrow list, I do not believe it is an absolute must overall to have the Despair Ray Mega Gardevoir in the list. I got two more reasons for this: First off, Mega Mewtwo is a reason why I run two Lysandre: not only does that allow me to choose my target more often, it will make sure that I can bring a dangerous Mega Mewtwo and either start damaging it or Knock it Out before it becomes a problem. As for Shaymin-EX, it is not really a problem to have them on the Bench, especially if only one, I believe, as your opponent targeting them means that all of your Fairy Energy stay on the field. This means they will not necessarily want them, as they will not damage your threat if they do so. I cannot prove, for now, that a pure Brilliant Arrow Mega Gardevoir deck will do very well, but this is what I will test out at the next tournament I will go to. My projected list remains unchanged for now.

 

[TCG_Destory]

By the way, I know that I said in a previous thread that I would build the Brilliant Arrow deck today, but it seems that I will have to wait until I go back home (at the end of this week) to complete that deck with cards I already have in my collection (rather than buying doubles, which does not seem worthy of it for a week). So, in any tournament I go to this week, I will play my Despair Ray deck, but I will bring a Brilliant Arrow deck to tournaments starting next week. I will keep you informed of how it does after I try it at those tournaments and after I test it.

 

[Fayld]

I used to put a copy of the Despair Ray Mega Gardevoir in my Brilliant Arrow decks, which works and puts pressure on, but in this particular build, I am looking to use Geomancy on the first couple of turns in order to then start destroying the opposing team with Brilliant Arrow. If I am facing small Pokémon (say Vespiquen), then, let's say I go second, I can use Geomancy on my first turn, attach and use a Mega Turbo on my second turn, retreat and then start causing 150 damage, which will increase with turns. This combo, in my previous builds, has proven not to be very hard to achieve, when it was needed to pull it off. It is very useful against Greninja BREAK too, and then the increasing damage means that the BREAK will go down too. In most cases, where I will Geomancy twice and thus my opponent will get three turns before I start going for the offensive, I will still have slowdown potential with Escape Rope, which is also used early game to start using Geomancy as early as possible, and there is a possibility to run Enhanced Hammer or even Silent Lab (as you've mentioned) for the same purposes. I think a 2-2 Mega Gardevoir split means that the list is not really Brilliant Arrow anymore, but that one greatly helps in situations, although as I am going to build a pure Brilliant Arrow list, I do not believe it is an absolute must overall to have the Despair Ray Mega Gardevoir in the list. I got two more reasons for this: First off, Mega Mewtwo is a reason why I run two Lysandre: not only does that allow me to choose my target more often, it will make sure that I can bring a dangerous Mega Mewtwo and either start damaging it or Knock it Out before it becomes a problem. As for Shaymin-EX, it is not really a problem to have them on the Bench, especially if only one, I believe, as your opponent targeting them means that all of your Fairy Energy stay on the field. This means they will not necessarily want them, as they will not damage your threat if they do so. I cannot prove, for now, that a pure Brilliant Arrow Mega Gardevoir deck will do very well, but this is what I will test out at the next tournament I will go to. My projected list remains unchanged for now.

I have done this deck with straight BA and 2/2. I had a longer answer typed out, but ultimately deleted it. I think you will struggle with the fact that BA takes too long to effectively 1 shot everything leaving you vulnerable to losing one + the energy attached to it before you can get the one shots rolling. There are plenty of decks that can and will disrupt your energy or overpower you before you can get BA up. If you only have BA as your primary attacker, I think it will struggle with speed.

Seems like we generally don't agree on this particular set of Megas LOL!

 

[antonjg]

I feel like gardevoir can't really be a budget build

 

[swan]

I feel like gardevoir can't really be a budget build

PRC gardevoir can be a budget build...

If you are going to play brilliant arrow gardevoir, you absolutely have to have the despair ray variant as at least a one of to control the M Mewtwo match up. It also clears your board as you pointed out.

I know this was a big thing that revived PRC Mgardy when the STS version came out, however I don't really see Mm2 as that bad of a matchup (is it? Elaborate?). That being said, having a copy of despair ray turns the MU into close an to auto-win whilst it is good in general due to the cheap energy cost and dumping ability.

Of course, speed is not an advantage, but keeping Xerneas alive or streaming them means that you will still be able to set up properly and do what the deck intends to (You can defeat Despair Ray if you pull off the right plays on the first three turns and the opponent cannot respond fast enough)

I'm also wondering about this: Is despair ray a bad matchup either? The problem that I've always had with despair ray gardy is how much less presure it gives off when going second. In light of this, the only threat it has are early lysandres at non-mega gardys and a quick takedown on xerneas, which is much less promenent when going 2nd against you as you can mega evolve first.

 

[Fayld]

I know this was a big thing that revived PRC Mgardy when the STS version came out, however I don't really see Mm2 as that bad of a matchup (is it? Elaborate?). That being said, having a copy of despair ray turns the MU into close an to auto-win whilst it is good in general due to the cheap energy cost and dumping ability.

I'm also wondering about this: Is despair ray a bad matchup either? The problem that I've always had with despair ray gardy is how much less presure it gives off when going second. In light of this, the only threat it has are early lysandres at non-mega gardys and a quick takedown on xerneas, which is much less promenent when going 2nd against you as you can mega evolve first.

I will address these two questions

Regarding MM2 as a bad match up, I wouldn't argue it is bad on its face. I would argue that it is bad because the MM2 player only needs to get one MM up and running quickly + 1 Lysandre and PRC Gardevoir is probably behind already. Allow me to pose this scenario as an example: Say MM2 goes 1st. Say you even start perfectly and get Xerneas up top, 2 Gardevoir EXs on your bench, 2 spirit links on your Gardevoirs. Let's even make this super awesome and say that at the end of T1, you have 1 Fairy energy in your discard + 2 BA Gards in hand + 1 Mega Turbo. Because you went second, both BA Garbs start with 1 Fairy each + 1 Fairy on Xerneas. T2, MM hits the board, they Mega Turbo into 1 Psychic + 1 DCE on the MM. Let's just assume they added the other DCE to a benched M2 to set up the second one rather than just stomping your Gardevoir T2. They Lysandre up one of the Gards and hit it for 130. T2, you level into BA, attach one energy, use Mega Turbo and get another onto BA and for kicks, let's just say you swap them out free with Fairy Garden. Now you have a 3 energy BA waiting to hit MM2 for 150 (5 energy on the board). That's solid. Except that now you are absolutely relying on heals + 0 energy attachments on the current active MM to survive the next hit. All this while having a Gard on your bench that has been damaged for 120.

Basically, what that book of a paragraph is attempting to establish isn't some crazy scenario. That is common for both you and MM2. The difference is that MM2 is one energy connection away from burning your active, is setting up a second MM free of damage, and only has to hit your eventual BA Garb for 90 to knock it out. You will be down 4 prizes to 2 after T3. That's hard to overcome. Not impossible. But hard.

By contrast, DR Gardevoir ends the threat T2 by knocking out MM #1 and forcing MM #2 to have a whopping 2 DCE + 1 P to knock out your DR Gardevoir. That absolutely turns the scenario on its head...all by using the options available to you by having two different primary attackers.

As for the DR Gardy "mirror", I honestly don't know that I think it is any better or worse. Both need to hit for 210 to bring down the mega. DR Gardy can get two up and running faster with fewer turns needed to make that happen. By contrast, BA can be up and running on a full 1 shot DR with only 7 energy on the board (which is extremely likely by T3 and quite doable by T2 if you can get 2 Geomancy off / hit enough Turbos). It always turns on whether BA Gardy gets heals and DR Gardy can keep that bench up. If BA can limit the bench to 5 with the right stadium, BA should win with enough healing because BA 1 shots DR with 7 energy on the board. Dunno. I think the match up is pretty even IMO. Just depends on who gets what breaks.

I am sure others have different experiences with that match up, but I haven't found BA to get overwhelmed by DR H2H.

 

[swan]

I will address these two questions

Regarding MM2 as a bad match up, I wouldn't argue it is bad on its face. I would argue that it is bad because the MM2 player only needs to get one MM up and running quickly + 1 Lysandre and PRC Gardevoir is probably behind already. Allow me to pose this scenario as an example: Say MM2 goes 1st. Say you even start perfectly and get Xerneas up top, 2 Gardevoir EXs on your bench, 2 spirit links on your Gardevoirs. Let's even make this super awesome and say that at the end of T1, you have 1 Fairy energy in your discard + 2 BA Gards in hand + 1 Mega Turbo. Because you went second, both BA Garbs start with 1 Fairy each + 1 Fairy on Xerneas. T2, MM hits the board, they Mega Turbo into 1 Psychic + 1 DCE on the MM. Let's just assume they added the other DCE to a benched M2 to set up the second one rather than just stomping your Gardevoir T2. They Lysandre up one of the Gards and hit it for 130. T2, you level into BA, attach one energy, use Mega Turbo and get another onto BA and for kicks, let's just say you swap them out free with Fairy Garden. Now you have a 3 energy BA waiting to hit MM2 for 150 (5 energy on the board). That's solid. Except that now you are absolutely relying on heals + 0 energy attachments on the current active MM to survive the next hit. All this while having a Gard on your bench that has been damaged for 120.

Basically, what that book of a paragraph is attempting to establish isn't some crazy scenario. That is common for both you and MM2. The difference is that MM2 is one energy connection away from burning your active, is setting up a second MM free of damage, and only has to hit your eventual BA Garb for 90 to knock it out. You will be down 4 prizes to 2 after T3. That's hard to overcome. Not impossible. But hard.

By contrast, DR Gardevoir ends the threat T2 by knocking out MM #1 and forcing MM #2 to have a whopping 2 DCE + 1 P to knock out your DR Gardevoir. That absolutely turns the scenario on its head...all by using the options available to you by having two different primary attackers.

As for the DR Gardy "mirror", I honestly don't know that I think it is any better or worse. Both need to hit for 210 to bring down the mega. DR Gardy can get two up and running faster with fewer turns needed to make that happen. By contrast, BA can be up and running on a full 1 shot DR with only 7 energy on the board (which is extremely likely by T3 and quite doable by T2 if you can get 2 Geomancy off / hit enough Turbos). It always turns on whether BA Gardy gets heals and DR Gardy can keep that bench up. If BA can limit the bench to 5 with the right stadium, BA should win with enough healing because BA 1 shots DR with 7 energy on the board. Dunno. I think the match up is pretty even IMO. Just depends on who gets what breaks.

I am sure others have different experiences with that match up, but I haven't found BA to get overwhelmed by DR H2H.

Thanks for the input! I mm2 matchup feels like it can go either way without DR gardy, but should be easy with it (Despair ray has it's other aforementioned perks). I imagine that Mray is a bigger problem then despair ray in what PRC gardy has to deal with.

 

[TCG_Destory]

Now, I'm looking to build a Mega Gardevoir/Dragonair list, as a rogue idea I had. Any suggestions for such an unusual strategy would be appreciated. For now I am considering 13 Energy, 4 Professor's Letter, a 2-1 Dragonair line, Xerneas as a backup charger and four Mega Gardevoir including 1 of the Despair Ray version.

 

[TCG_Destory]

I will address these two questions

Regarding MM2 as a bad match up, I wouldn't argue it is bad on its face. I would argue that it is bad because the MM2 player only needs to get one MM up and running quickly + 1 Lysandre and PRC Gardevoir is probably behind already. Allow me to pose this scenario as an example: Say MM2 goes 1st. Say you even start perfectly and get Xerneas up top, 2 Gardevoir EXs on your bench, 2 spirit links on your Gardevoirs. Let's even make this super awesome and say that at the end of T1, you have 1 Fairy energy in your discard + 2 BA Gards in hand + 1 Mega Turbo. Because you went second, both BA Garbs start with 1 Fairy each + 1 Fairy on Xerneas. T2, MM hits the board, they Mega Turbo into 1 Psychic + 1 DCE on the MM. Let's just assume they added the other DCE to a benched M2 to set up the second one rather than just stomping your Gardevoir T2. They Lysandre up one of the Gards and hit it for 130. T2, you level into BA, attach one energy, use Mega Turbo and get another onto BA and for kicks, let's just say you swap them out free with Fairy Garden. Now you have a 3 energy BA waiting to hit MM2 for 150 (5 energy on the board). That's solid. Except that now you are absolutely relying on heals + 0 energy attachments on the current active MM to survive the next hit. All this while having a Gard on your bench that has been damaged for 120.

Basically, what that book of a paragraph is attempting to establish isn't some crazy scenario. That is common for both you and MM2. The difference is that MM2 is one energy connection away from burning your active, is setting up a second MM free of damage, and only has to hit your eventual BA Garb for 90 to knock it out. You will be down 4 prizes to 2 after T3. That's hard to overcome. Not impossible. But hard.

By contrast, DR Gardevoir ends the threat T2 by knocking out MM #1 and forcing MM #2 to have a whopping 2 DCE + 1 P to knock out your DR Gardevoir. That absolutely turns the scenario on its head...all by using the options available to you by having two different primary attackers.

As for the DR Gardy "mirror", I honestly don't know that I think it is any better or worse. Both need to hit for 210 to bring down the mega. DR Gardy can get two up and running faster with fewer turns needed to make that happen. By contrast, BA can be up and running on a full 1 shot DR with only 7 energy on the board (which is extremely likely by T3 and quite doable by T2 if you can get 2 Geomancy off / hit enough Turbos). It always turns on whether BA Gardy gets heals and DR Gardy can keep that bench up. If BA can limit the bench to 5 with the right stadium, BA should win with enough healing because BA 1 shots DR with 7 energy on the board. Dunno. I think the match up is pretty even IMO. Just depends on who gets what breaks.

I am sure others have different experiences with that match up, but I haven't found BA to get overwhelmed by DR H2H.

A problem is that it usually gets outsped and that a single Geomancy is not enough, therefore Despair Ray starts pressuring Brilliant Arrow and it is hard to build into a one-hit Knock Out. Otherwise though, if Despair Ray draws bad, the Brilliant Arrow version has odds on its side, but the Despair Ray deck is normally very consistent, so I would say Brilliant Arrow has a 45/55 matchup against Despair Ray.

 

[swan]

A problem is that it usually gets outsped and that a single Geomancy is not enough, therefore Despair Ray starts pressuring Brilliant Arrow and it is hard to build into a one-hit Knock Out. Otherwise though, if Despair Ray draws bad, the Brilliant Arrow version has odds on its side, but the Despair Ray deck is normally very consistent, so I would say Brilliant Arrow has a 45/55 matchup against Despair Ray.

In light of this, why don't we tech a 1-of silent lab or, more to the point, why is garbodor only a very rare inclusion in brilliant arrow gardy decks? Could play 4 spirit links and 1-2 floats; as opposed to 3 spirit links and 2-3 floats, due to the deck having fairy garden.

EDIT: about the dragonair thing, the rayquaza guy mentioned togekiss/darkrai earlier which might be a good stepping stone?

 

[Fayld]

In light of this, why don't we tech a 1-of silent lab or, more to the point, why is garbodor only a very rare inclusion in brilliant arrow gardy decks? Could play 4 spirit links and 1-2 floats; as opposed to 3 spirit links and 2-3 floats, due to the deck having fairy garden.

EDIT: about the dragonair thing, the rayquaza guy mentioned togekiss/darkrai earlier which might be a good stepping stone?

I think Dragonair would be great with fewer moving pieces. Togekiss/Darkrai is alright because the primary other pokemon don't require additional support to get into play. They are basics. Don't require spirit links. Can take advantage of FFB. Etc. Example, I think a Dragonair / Darkrai deck has potential provided you can cycle enough pieces. I think Dragonair + Xerneas BREAK could have a ton of potential. I don't think it has nearly as much potential with the Gards simply because so many resources are dedicated to getting the Gards going. I mean, you are talking 7 pokemon (minimum) + 3 spirit links (preferably 4). that's 10-12 cards dedicated solely to the megas. You free up 2-4 cards by going Xerneas BREAK alone and maxing both lines.

I think the primary reason Garbodor doesn't get lumped with Gardevoir is the additional 2-1/2 line required to run it. As stated above, Gardevoir already sports a fat pokemon line to begin with and the DR deck requires abilities to cycle. While the BA / DR doesn't require abilities, it does require energy acceleration of some form. I guess you could try to make it work more like a M Mewtwo deck list, drop the Xerneas acceleration, and rely on a combination of Turbos + Elixirs to push the energy higher. The issue with BA, unlike MM2 is that it doesn't take advantage of DCE. I am sure someone has built that list and I would love to see it. I have never been able to make the Turbo + Elixir dedicated energy acceleration work, but that might just be lack of imagination or too many turbos.

I have been running a modified variant on this deck and so far it has been downright fantastic.

My modifications:
-1 Gardevoir EX STS
-1 Skyla (I haven't had many issues with spirit links and realistically, you only need 2 most games. She has other uses, but I would rather have PCL.)
-1 N (still playing with this)
-1 Hex Maniac (still playing with this too)

+1 Tauros GX (Adds pressure, but I am not positive it does much)
+1 Lillie (still toying with 1 Lillie / 1 N vs 2 N. Both have positives and negatives)
+1 Pokemon Center Lady (I feel like this is a key addition)
+1 Olympia (I go back and forth on this one vs a second Hex. I have liked the second Hex and didn't think I would when I first played it).

 

[TCG_Destory]

I saw a video about a M Rayquaza Dragon/Dragonair deck, and realized, after comparing it to the Reshiram build, that Dragonair is probably nowhere near Xerneas in terms of utility and Energy acceleration in Mega Gardevoir, and it is without even considering Xerneas BREAK.

The problem I find with using Dragonair is that it means that you have to run tons of Basic Energy and set up Stage 1 and Mega Evolution Pokémon while Xerneas does the job as a Basic Pokémon with 9 to 11 Energy in the deck, which means you have much more room. I haven't tested the Dragonair build though, as I have no Dragonair in the moment, so I am basing this off observations I made while watching videos about Dragonair build of decks such as Darkrai, expanded Malamar and the Dragon Mega Rayquaza.

What I find not to be a bad idea so far though, is mixing the two Mega Gardevoir EX in a hybrid way, that makes both parts work. My list has been working consistently so far, and very well for a hybrid kind of deck, and I would suggest that you try a such deck out if you have the necessary cards, although I would take any suggestions towards improving this list as well.

I am currently working with the following list, and I have tested it out, to generally positive results:

Pokémon (15)
2 Hoopa EX AOR
3 Gardevoir EX STS
1 M Gardevoir EX PCL
2 M Gardevoir EX STS
3 Xerneas XY
1 Dragonite EX EVO
3 Shaymin EX ROS

Trainer (36)
3 Fairy Garden
1 Brock's Grit
1 Hex Maniac
2 Lysandre
3 N
3 Professor Sycamore
3 Escape Rope
2 Fairy Drop
4 Gardevoir Spirit Link
2 Mega Turbo
4 Trainers' Mail
4 Ultra Ball
4 VS Seeker

Energy (9)
9 Fairy Energy

I do recognize that some of the parts in this list look odd but can explain each one:
Three Xerneas: This is a deck where starting Gardevoir is good too, and I am already running so many basics.
Four Spirit Link but a 3-3 Mega line: This helps in getting them out more consistently; three will not get the job done as well.
Three Sycamore and three N: This deck has many (23) Items and does not rely on discarding lots of Pokémon/other resources, so I prefer a 3-3 Supporter lineup over 4 Sycamore and 2 N.
Nine Energy: This is the exact amount for all of the Mega Gardevoir and Xerneas to be fully charged up with an Energy Prized, and it allows for a damage output that reasonably goes up to 210 with Brilliant Arrow (a very crucial number for Belted EX's, Stage 1 GX's and some Mega Evolution Pokémon) and sometimes 240, with a potential of 270 with all Energy attached. It makes the Energy not too hard to draw but not too common to see which helps the semi-turbo engine I run.

 

[TCG_Destory]

I saw a video about a M Rayquaza Dragon/Dragonair deck, and realized, after comparing it to the Reshiram build, that Dragonair is probably nowhere near Xerneas in terms of utility and Energy acceleration in Mega Gardevoir, and it is without even considering Xerneas BREAK.

The problem I find with using Dragonair is that it means that you have to run tons of Basic Energy and set up Stage 1 and Mega Evolution Pokémon while Xerneas does the job as a Basic Pokémon with 9 to 11 Energy in the deck, which means you have much more room. I haven't tested the Dragonair build though, as I have no Dragonair in the moment, so I am basing this off observations I made while watching videos about Dragonair build of decks such as Darkrai, expanded Malamar and the Dragon Mega Rayquaza.

What I find not to be a bad idea so far though, is mixing the two Mega Gardevoir EX in a hybrid way, that makes both parts work. My list has been working consistently so far, and very well for a hybrid kind of deck, and I would suggest that you try a such deck out if you have the necessary cards, although I would take any suggestions towards improving this list as well.

I am currently working with the following list, and I have tested it out, to generally positive results:

Pokémon (15)
2 Hoopa EX AOR
3 Gardevoir EX STS
1 M Gardevoir EX PCL
2 M Gardevoir EX STS
3 Xerneas XY
1 Dragonite EX EVO
3 Shaymin EX ROS

Trainer (36)
3 Fairy Garden
1 Brock's Grit
1 Hex Maniac
2 Lysandre
3 N
3 Professor Sycamore
3 Escape Rope
2 Fairy Drop
4 Gardevoir Spirit Link
2 Mega Turbo
4 Trainers' Mail
4 Ultra Ball
4 VS Seeker

Energy (9)
9 Fairy Energy

I do recognize that some of the parts in this list look odd but can explain each one:
Three Xerneas: This is a deck where starting Gardevoir is good too, and I am already running so many basics.
Four Spirit Link but a 3-3 Mega line: This helps in getting them out more consistently; three will not get the job done as well.
Three Sycamore and three N: This deck has many (23) Items and does not rely on discarding lots of Pokémon/other resources, so I prefer a 3-3 Supporter lineup over 4 Sycamore and 2 N.
Nine Energy: This is the exact amount for all of the Mega Gardevoir and Xerneas to be fully charged up with an Energy Prized, and it allows for a damage output that reasonably goes up to 210 with Brilliant Arrow (a very crucial number for Belted EX's, Stage 1 GX's and some Mega Evolution Pokémon) and sometimes 240, with a potential of 270 with all Energy attached. It makes the Energy not too hard to draw but not too common to see which helps the semi-turbo engine I run.

For those who do not quite get the strategy behind the deck, it is taking on almost any Pokémon with two-hit Knock Outs throughout most of the game with Despair Ray that also discards setup Pokémon, after having spent a turn or two using Geomancy, when the matchup says Brilliant Arrow should be a necessity, and then, later game, or sometimes earlier than that, Knock Out Pokémon in one hit with Brilliant Arrow once the board contains 6-7 Energy.

 

[swan]

For those who do not quite get the strategy behind the deck, it is taking on almost any Pokémon with two-hit Knock Outs throughout most of the game with Despair Ray that also discards setup Pokémon, after having spent a turn or two using Geomancy, when the matchup says Brilliant Arrow should be a necessity, and then, later game, or sometimes earlier than that, Knock Out Pokémon in one hit with Brilliant Arrow once the board contains 6-7 Energy.

I believe gardevoir are like drinks; be careful while mixing them!

 

[TCG_Destory]

Yes indeed, you have to be extremely careful. A 2-2 split in my experience will not work well. You have to run 2 Brilliant Arrow and 1 Despair Ray or 1 Brilliant Arrow and 2 Despair Ray if you are going to make a hybrid variant.
By the way, I modified my deck slightly since I posted it. I removed Dragonite EX and Brock's Grit and added in 2 Super Rod.
However, I still did not find a way to get in a third Fairy Drop, as I do not see much if anything I could cut for it.
I have to say though, even at three, Xerneas works well as an early setup Pokémon that uses Geomancy the required amount of times depending on the matchup (Zero to two times) and is a rather bulky Pokémon to sit behind while getting the opponent to an odd Prize count once it is defeated.
I also really enjoy the fact that this deck has six good starters which is 54% of my Basic Pokémon, so I get good starts over two thirds of the time.
As a suggestion, for those who only have two Shaymin-EX, I would recommend adding in a fourth Professor Sycamore or a third Fairy Drop.

 

[swan]

Yes indeed, you have to be extremely careful. A 2-2 split in my experience will not work well. You have to run 2 Brilliant Arrow and 1 Despair Ray or 1 Brilliant Arrow and 2 Despair Ray if you are going to make a hybrid variant.
By the way, I modified my deck slightly since I posted it. I removed Dragonite EX and Brock's Grit and added in 2 Super Rod.
However, I still did not find a way to get in a third Fairy Drop, as I do not see much if anything I could cut for it.

Out of interest, how does BA-M gardevoir deal with Decidueye/plume? Any comments on the matchup?