Standard Gardevoir EX (Budget)

[neoshai]

First off, as you are talking of the expanded format yourself, you should be aknowledging that the expensive cards that will help you in those six months to come of Primal Clash-on metagame (for the Standard format) will stay useful after the rotation, since Expanded leagues exist. This means that your cards never really lose all of their value and playability, you can still get use out of them. I tried Mega Evolution decks on PTCGonline in the Standard format without Shaymin-EX (since it is not part of my digital collection) but almost everytime, with the exceptions being when I drew really well, they have proven to lack a good part of the consistency and speed they would have were at least two (or maybe even one) of them to have been in the list. As a side note, if you run Shaymin-EX, you look at an Ultra Ball in an entirely different way. Dead drawing becomes harded. If you are scared of them getting Lysandre-Knocked Out, or of running out of Bench space, then you really should just consider using the Despair Ray version of Mega Gardevoir as a one-of, in order to get rid of them. Then, using Super Rod, you can shuffle them into your deck for an eventual second use. I am not saying you should/must have four in you deck in any way. (The Brilliant Arrow deck works best with two or three in my experience). What I am saying is that one Shaymin-EX would be a great way to speed up your deck and make it more consistent, and you can use it in basically any deck you would like to build, and even in Expanded after it rotates. If you really do not want to spend this much money on one card, then I suggest you try some other draw supporting Pokémon like Octillery, especially given the high amount of turns Mega Gardevoir might take to get set up.

Secondly, I am a normal person; I do think Shaymin-EX's price/apparent value seems strange for one card, but with the exception of a few decks, it is very hard to do well in competitive play without it. Its price is justified by its competitive value and demand, the reason I consider it a good investment is that it will improve so many of your deck, and as a result, you should be more successful in tournaments and earn more prizes, and possibly even rank well at league events and gain CP towards the big tournaments. If you are wanting to play in competitive without spending oddly high amounts on single cards, I suggest you wait until the BREAKthrough-on format (the cutting point being my speculation), where a fairly budget Mega Gardevoir deck, as I've previously explained, could do very well, given the speed of and the cards that seemingly will not be in that format. If you are looking to play casually, I think you can do well without Shaymin-EX, but that this card will still advantage you significantly.

First off, I'm not a competitive person ... in general.
That aside, in any other tcg, if you know for a fact that a card will be banned that card loses all value. People are throwing them at each other, hoping someone will take it from them before that drastic ban comes into place. It won't just be pushed to expanded it'll eventually be pushed out off that as well ... again how can you as a 'normal' person say one card is worth 50 bucks (that's a month worth of food/drinks for me btw ... A MONTH) knowing it'll become unplayable? It's good for a year, one big tournament and then you can throw it in the trash again (figure of speaking of course).
For anyone with a brain that doesn't just go around splashing money not realizing what they're actually throwing away, this game is totally broken. At my locals (or anywhere I've been where people play(ed) pokemon) existing players disappear with each rotation. New players come as children, who are honestly to young to play because they can't read/understand english and can barely make decks. Those that are a bit older just take decks from online and hope their mommy and daddy pays for it (surprisingly a lot of parents are stupid enough to do so as well). But a lot of those children after hearing the cards they have will become illegal to play or are already out of standard, sometimes out of expanded, they get close to bursting into tears. Same as my little brother, you can't understand how disappointed he was hearing that what he's currently playing is actually not legal in standard. Luckily on that part he's a bit like me and instead of being sad/mad, he was just honestly disappointed by it. Even people who come back to the game with cards they had years ago, what do you think they do after hearing they aren't allowed to play the cards they currently own? They're not staying, they turn around and walk away.
Existing players are turning into teachers, teaching new players (children) how to play, while they barely play themselves and resort to just collecting because they slowly start to realize how terrible this system is.
There are a number of players where I go now, who have resorted to never buying boosters or single cards. They play the sneak preview or early release tournaments and hope they get something there good enough to trade to get themselves the cards they need/want. Once in a while when there's a tin box or special box with cards they want (again to collect) they'll buy one of those. For example the mythical collections from a while back with the full art legendaries.

Honestly, on wednesdays or saturdays I sometimes go to play pokemon at my locals and there's little playing happening. It's basically just a bunch of us guys helping children out and having a chat.
If it wasn't for 2 little brothers asking me to teach them, I wouldn't even be playing it. I'm pretty sure if I never got to play this gardevoir deck from someone at my locals, I would still be playing against my brothers with my old dusknoir deck which I've put soooo much effort into making and is completely unplayable/illegal to play now.

This is why I hate competitive players btw, I've yet to come across a competitive player who actually put a lot of effort into his/her deck. Playing it for years to see where its strength and weaknesses lie and trying to push it so hard that it can keep on running alongside newer, stronger more improved decks.
No, they just jump from deck to deck splashing around money until they get into trouble, being forced to sell everything and stop playing (that's for the adults who don't live with the parents anymore). Decks that are running on the front side of the meta ... these are the players that ruin games for those that aren't like them. These are the players that make tournaments super boring because it starts to lack diversity. One of the main reasons I never went to big tournaments for vanguard.
As a newbie you get diversity in the start of these tournaments until you start to win, that's when you get to see the same thing over and over and over again.

how long do you want me to make this? XD

PS: don't take anything personally, I'm talking in general here. Not aiming anything really towards you.

 

[swan]

The reason why I don't want to run SuMo cards or reasons, is because it goes past gardevoir. Whenever the rotation hits that pushes her to expanded or beyond, I'll only have the SuMo cards left in the deck ... kind of pointless.

Ok, so how does the fact that SM cards are going to stay in format for longer stop you from playing them? When gardevoir is rotated out, the SM cards will still have standard format competitive value and hence be easier to sell off, (or if you find another interesting deck they'll still have value to you). I don't understand this reasoning at all?!? The whole deck will be "kind of pointless" when gardevoir rotates whether or not it contains SM cards.

Oh, and elo is the ranking system on the versus ladder that is used to create matchups between more evenly leveled players based off of their wins and loses.

 

[Asmer]

This is why I hate competitive players btw, I've yet to come across a competitive player who actually put a lot of effort into his/her deck.

I was going to stay out of this whole mess, but this line actually angered me.
Now, I will say that while I understand your view of the "pay to win" ideologies that a lot of competitive players seem use, hating the entire group of competitive players because this behavior is what we would call, "hatred of a stereotype", which is a completely incorrect way to go about things. One of the biggest facts about the Competitive Meta I feel you miss is the fact that the Meta simply does not exist without some form of innovation, especially in a game like Pokemon TCG. We've had competitive formats on multiple occasions where Rogue decks were regularly seen (2012-2013 Black and White format had things from Tool Drop to Round to FluffyChomp to more competitive things like VirGen and TDK and Landorus Mewtwo and RayEels and just plethoras of decks). All of these competitive ideas have to come from someone or a collective group of individuals first in order to even remotely be successful or recognized.

So, if you've honestly never encountered someone who has never done anything that is not a copy/paste, then that means a few things:
1. Your standards are much too high when it comes to determining "effort".
2. You have a lack of understanding of what "effort" is.
3. The people you are surrounded with are unfortunately all extremely non-innovative and in this regard, okay, I give you the benefit of the doubt.

As I stated before, I normally don't try to rant about things like this, but considering where the thread already is and considering that I am a competitive player, an article writer, and an avid lover of really, really bad and silly ideas, I found that offensive. Granted, I probably took this way out of context, but I'll still stick to stating my opinion, nonetheless.

-Asmer

 

[neoshai]

I was going to stay out of this whole mess, but this line actually angered me.
Now, I will say that while I understand your view of the "pay to win" ideologies that a lot of competitive players seem use, hating the entire group of competitive players because this behavior is what we would call, "hatred of a stereotype", which is a completely incorrect way to go about things. One of the biggest facts about the Competitive Meta I feel you miss is the fact that the Meta simply does not exist without some form of innovation, especially in a game like Pokemon TCG. We've had competitive formats on multiple occasions where Rogue decks were regularly seen (2012-2013 Black and White format had things from Tool Drop to Round to FluffyChomp to more competitive things like VirGen and TDK and Landorus Mewtwo and RayEels and just plethoras of decks). All of these competitive ideas have to come from someone or a collective group of individuals first in order to even remotely be successful or recognized.

So, if you've honestly never encountered someone who has never done anything that is not a copy/paste, then that means a few things:
1. Your standards are much too high when it comes to determining "effort".
2. You have a lack of understanding of what "effort" is.
3. The people you are surrounded with are unfortunately all extremely non-innovative and in this regard, okay, I give you the benefit of the doubt.

As I stated before, I normally don't try not to rant about things like this, but considering where the thread already is and considering that I am a competitive player, an article writer, and an avid lover of really, really bad and silly ideas, I found that offensive. Granted, I probably took this way out of context, but I'll still stick to stating my opinion, nonetheless.

-Asmer

So I take it that you're one of the few that finds something interesting while browsing cards or opening packs and starts from scrap?
Or that you go with something you actually like and start from scrap there and continue with that for years no matter where the format leads you. Sadly enough not possible in pokemon as a competitive player, slightly more possible as a casual depending on what the people you play with agree upon.
For example, a number of people at my locals don't really care if I play my old dusknoir deck, even if I were to put in newer cards. There are a few (maybe 2 or 3) that will say straight up no to it because it's against the "rules" (with which they mean the format system), they stay with standard and/or expanded.
But anyway I'm dwadling off ...

How can "my standards" be to high when it comes to determining effort. You either copy/paste (so to speak) or you start from scrap and everything comes from yourself. There's nothing in between.
Problem with a lot of tcg is that most decks will always go in the same direction. For example my gardevoir deck here, I started from gardevoir herself, looking at fairy pokemon to see what I can use and everything else that eventually got added where things I just came across and still it ended up pretty much the same as all the other gardevoir decks out there
It's hard to find a tcg or make a deck that doesn't do this.

But to answer your question, no, in my area I haven't really encountered a competitive person that actually puts effort into the making of his/her deck.
And by that I mean not just in pokemon but in all tcg I play in general and those that actually play competitively in tournaments, meaning I can't say to much about pokemon cuz ever since I restarted I've been kind of avoiding all tournaments. I like to attend those tbh, just play along, I don't really care whether I win or lose.
I always thought for yugioh for example, there were so many people, I'll be able to play against a lot of different decks but no, that's not how tcg works. Same with vanguard and well, haven't been to a big tournament or championship of pokemon yet but if it's as much fun as what I come across online, it'll be thrilling ... >.>
Reasons why I know that they don't put effort into are as followed:
1 I know the players personally
2 a lot of them don't really hide it
3 they buy decks in completion from others (mostly tournament winners that get rid of it cuz of what's coming out or what I've seen multiple times, they quit after it)

This is why I like newbies and children, they just take what they like and go with that. Eventually however they all fall in one of 2 holes, they either give up or become so molded that even if they aren't competitive their decks start to look like it ... like mine. Nowadays I put to much thought into things, so cards that I really like end up not being played because they're "not good enough". And I honestly hate that attitude of mine.

But anyway, if there's anything else you'd like to know, feel free to ask. "You who normally rant about these things" (that's what you said yourself )

PS: might want to wear protective gear to go around your daily life, if something not meant to be offensive is already offending you. Like seriously what's this world turning into? Everything is racist and everyone is offended by everything >.>

 

[Asmer]

So I take it that you're one of the few that finds something interesting while browsing cards or opening packs and starts from scrap?
Or that you go with something you actually like and start from scrap there and continue with that for years no matter where the format leads you. Sadly enough not possible in pokemon as a competitive player, slightly more possible as a casual depending on what the people you play with agree upon.
For example, a number of people at my locals don't really care if I play my old dusknoir deck, even if I were to put in newer cards. There are a few (maybe 2 or 3) that will say straight up no to it because it's against the "rules" (with which they mean the format system), they stay with standard and/or expanded.
But anyway I'm dwadling off ...

How can "my standards" be to high when it comes to determining effort. You either copy/paste (so to speak) or you start from scrap and everything comes from yourself. There's nothing in between.
Problem with a lot of tcg is that most decks will always go in the same direction. For example my gardevoir deck here, I started from gardevoir herself, looking at fairy pokemon to see what I can use and everything else that eventually got added where things I just came across and still it ended up pretty much the same as all the other gardevoir decks out there
It's hard to find a tcg or make a deck that doesn't do this.

But to answer your question, no, in my area I haven't really encountered a competitive person that actually puts effort into the making of his/her deck.
And by that I mean not just in pokemon but in all tcg I play in general and those that actually play competitively in tournaments, meaning I can't say to much about pokemon cuz ever since I restarted I've been kind of avoiding all tournaments. I like to attend those tbh, just play along, I don't really care whether I win or lose.
I always thought for yugioh for example, there were so many people, I'll be able to play against a lot of different decks but no, that's not how tcg works. Same with vanguard and well, haven't been to a big tournament or championship of pokemon yet but if it's as much fun as what I come across online, it'll be thrilling ... >.>
Reasons why I know that they don't put effort into are as followed:
1 I know the players personally
2 a lot of them don't really hide it
3 they buy decks in completion from others (mostly tournament winners that get rid of it cuz of what's coming out or what I've seen multiple times, they quit after it)

This is why I like newbies and children, they just take what they like and go with that. Eventually however they all fall in one of 2 holes, they either give up or become so molded that even if they aren't competitive their decks start to look like it ... like mine. Nowadays I put to much thought into things, so cards that I really like end up not being played because they're "not good enough". And I honestly hate that attitude of mine.

But anyway, if there's anything else you'd like to know, feel free to ask. "You who normally rant about these things" (that's what you said yourself )

PS: might want to wear protective gear to go around your daily life, if something not meant to be offensive is already offending you. Like seriously what's this world turning into? Everything is racist and everyone is offended by everything >.>

...I'm going to PM you to not flood this thread.

-Asmer

 

[swan]

...I'm going to PM you to not flood this thread.

Can you invite me to that also, as I'd really like to make a few points myself, which are however unrelated to the general topic of this thread.

 

[swan]

Along the lines of the topic of this thread, I'm pretty sure Mgardevoir-EX PRC could do very well in the format (even on a budget) moving forward, due to its ability to start taking OHKOs, which the format should start moving towards with the release of tapu koko (that thing will wreck every 2HKO deck in the format).
Mgardevoir-EX STS remains an interesting tech that gave the deck a brief hype revival back when STS was released. Other techs like xerneas break (mainly for its solid hp, but can also be an attacker) and a possible giratina-EX can complement this deck. Giratina-EX can deal with those cheap DCE reliant decks where Mgardevoir's overkill amounts of power become irrelevant. (On a side note dragonair is an option that combos with giratina (DDE synergy), but then again, xerneas already exists) This problem can also be in part solved by Fairy drop, turning your opponent's 2HKOs to 3HKOs, although as I said above that probably isn't going to be so common after the next set drops.

 

[Fayld]

Not to go too far off topic, but I honestly thought that tweaking TCG_Destroyer's list by removing some cards you think are too expensive / not available + adding some of the cards you like better would have been a good idea. I did something funky like that by using Lucky Helmet to help with the draw engine because I didn't want to play the Shaymins in the deck. Add the Lucky Helmet + some Mega Turbos and you have a cheaper draw engine + energy acceleration engine that can get you by against decent players with good decks. That won't help you against good / great players with great decks because it will, in fact, be too slow (I have a variation of this deck without the Shaymins).

Thing is, I am not sure that is what you are gunning for with this list anyway. Same thing as that's not really what I am gunning for when I roll out my Darkrai / Togekiss deck. I know it isn't going to beat the best decks, but if everything goes right, I at least have a shot against them. When (and by when I mean 70% of the time) I don't get the perfect T2 Togekiss with 2 Darkrai down and somehow spam 6 darkness energy onto the board to wreak havoc, I know I am probably in trouble against the best decks. It is truly as simple as that. But the goal is to enjoy the deck while playing something outside the box.

 

[Fayld]

Along the lines of the topic of this thread, I'm pretty sure Mgardevoir-EX PRC could do very well in the format (even on a budget) moving forward, due to its ability to start taking OHKOs, which the format should start moving towards with the release of tapu koko (that thing will wreck every 2HKO deck in the format).
Mgardevoir-EX STS remains an interesting tech that gave the deck a brief hype revival back when STS was released. Other techs like xerneas break (mainly for its solid hp, but can also be an attacker) and a possible giratina-EX can complement this deck. Giratina-EX can deal with those cheap DCE reliant decks where Mgardevoir's overkill amounts of power become irrelevant. (On a side note dragonair is an option that combos with giratina (DDE synergy), but then again, xerneas already exists) This problem can also be in part solved by Fairy drop, turning your opponent's 2HKOs to 3HKOs, although as I said above that probably isn't going to be so common after the next set drops.

I have tried the Giratina variant. Perhaps I am simply not good enough, but I found that it did not work and it didn't work in spectacular fashion LOL!!!! The Mega Turbos are far more reliable IMO.

 

[swan]

I have tried the Giratina variant. Perhaps I am simply not good enough, but I found that it did not work and it didn't work in spectacular fashion LOL!!!! The Mega Turbos are far more reliable IMO.

That's true, I'm just giving the guy room to experiment. I'm so glad the days when people hyped and tried to play xern/tina are over. My lack of surpise to it never top 32 almost astounds me!
Dayum togekiss/darkrai sounds fun! I assume you've tried it (and it didn't work), but with all the setup needed I just thought to myself: xern/kiss!

Not to go too far off topic, but I honestly thought that tweaking TCG_Destroyer's list by removing some cards you think are too expensive / not available + adding some of the cards you like better would have been a good idea

Watch out, this guy has a serious jerk reaction to the idea of playtesting decks that other people have built.

 

[Fayld]

That's true, I'm just giving the guy room to experiment. I'm so glad the days when people hyped and tried to play xern/tina are over. My lack of surpise to it never top 32 almost astounds me!
Dayum togekiss/darkrai sounds fun! I assume you've tried it (and it didn't work), but with all the setup needed I just thought to myself: xern/kiss!

I have played the beejesus out of that deck actually! I love the deck. And it does work pretty consistently actually given that you almost always get 3-5 cracks at a Togesplosion in a game (I am running 3 devolution sprays). But the issue is finding the fine balance between too much energy and not enough energy. 11 is not enough. the Togesplode doesn't explode explosively enough. 12 energy is better, but still not enough. 13 energy is the perfect Togesplode almost every game. Buuuuut, 13 energy clogs the crap out of the deck making the draw engine far less reliable meaning your chances of hitting that Togesplosion in a timely manner are significantly reduced.

Might work with Xerneas Break. I never tried that approach. I was trying a cluttered Xerneas / Togekiss / Brilliant Arrow Gardevoir combo and that was nothing but hot garbage. That gave rise to the Darkrai variant lol!

Main thing I was trying to point out with my post in here though is that it isn't a copy paste to take a good list that another player provides and then do whatever you want to it. Starting from scratch has merits and that can be a lot of fun and sometimes you really nail something. But sometimes taking an idea that someone else had that was a staple and then twisting it to your own approach is every bit as creative. I feel a strong sense of pride with my Rayquaza / Eelektross deck because I think it stands up to anything competitively. It is my own deck with my own approach, but it is definitely rooted in the original Ray / Eels concept. But I can take pride in my own deck idea because I literally haven't seen anyone else ever post about running a competitive Ray / Eels deck featuring Eelektross. I am sure others have done it, but I have never run across it online. Not once. As far as I am concerned, that is my original creation.

Not trying to derail the thread, but that is my point of view. An original deck list is great and is something I think a ton of competitive players strive to achieve. But ultimately, the likelihood that you stumbled onto an original gold mine that can walk into a tournament and lock it down is almost unfathomable to me. It could happen (I am looking at you Audino) and you will look like an absolute genius for doing it. But most times that is still a "right time, right place" kind of deck (I am still looking at you Audino).

Sorry for the book

 

[TCG_Destory]

With my Despair Ray deck seeing not particularly good matchups against many of the new decks (that almost everyone is playing at the moment), I have made a decision to switch to something else, at least for now, and considering the new decks' attributes and what I felt like playing at the moment, the Brilliant Arrow Mega Gardevoir came as my first choice.
First off, there are many things I really appreciate about this deck:
-Free Retreat
-Almost unaffected by Ability lock
-No special Energy
-Constant and reliable one-hit Knock Outs
-Darkness Resistance
-Non-EX starter/potential attacker, which means the opponent has a harder time taking six Prizes
Of course, speed is not an advantage, but keeping Xerneas alive or streaming them means that you will still be able to set up properly and do what the deck intends to (You can defeat Despair Ray if you pull off the right plays on the first three turns and the opponent cannot respond fast enough). This deck, given time, gets deadly, which is why cards that can slow your opponent down, such as Escape Rope (without overdoing it at the cost of consistency) , are important. After your opponent's first three turns, this deck will start dealing one-hit Knock Outs, in 210 or 240 damage, even getting to a point where Stage 2 GX's are threatened at times.
I've come up with a list, for which I am missing a few cards that I will buy in the day, to then start testing it. Here is my projected list, at the moment:

Pokémon - 13
4 Gardevoir EX STS
3 M Gardevoir EX PCL
4 Xerneas XY
2 Shaymin EX ROS

Trainer - 36
3 Fairy Garden XY

1 Brock's Grit EVO
1 Hex Maniac AOR
2 Lysandre FLF
3 N FCO
4 Professor Sycamore XY

3 Escape Rope PCL
4 Gardevoir Spirit Link PCL
3 Mega Turbo ROS
4 Trainer's Mail ROS
4 Ultra Ball DEX
4 VS Seeker PHF

Energy - 11
11 Fairy Energy XY

I could make a couple of changes though, for instance cutting two or three cards to add Fairy Drop if I want to run that card, although with Professor Kukui becoming a popular staple I might not bother to.

For anyone looking to make this budget, you can cut the two Shaymin-EX (which I will include for added consistency in my list), cut two of the Trainer's Mail, add in one N, one Skyla, and either two Fairy Drop or one Fairy Energy and one Fairy Garden. Xerneas BREAK STS is a good option too in my opinion, as its Life Stream synergizes with Geomancy and the overall functionment of the deck.

You may have noticed that I've included no way to discard Benched Pokémon; you can include Parallel City if you'd like for both Mega Rayquaza-EX and bumping your Shaymin-EX, but I do not think getting rid of them is imperative, for your opponent using Lysandre to Knock them Out means that they do not hurt attackers, and still have to knock at least two Pokémon out. Despair Ray is also absent from this list, as I've decided to make it a pure Brilliant Arrow build.

As a side note, my apologies if I started some kind of war on this thread. I did acknowledge that I have been insufficiently caring for what neoshai had to say about the Pokémon TCG costing excessive amounts of money to him. I have to admit, I do think that the BREAKthrough-on format to come, which for now seems to be much more budget-friendly than the current one, looks nice, and I wish some cards from previous rotations still existed in the Standard format (Battle Compressor is an example). I respect neoshai's opinion, but I believe this hate on everything with the competitive label, although somewhat justifiable, is wrong in that it puts every top player in the same boat.

I am open to suggestions regarding my list too. Even if this creates a thread inside of another.

 

[Fayld]

With my Despair Ray deck seeing not particularly good matchups against many of the new decks (that almost everyone is playing at the moment), I have made a decision to switch to something else, at least for now, and considering the new decks' attributes and what I felt like playing at the moment, the Brilliant Arrow Mega Gardevoir came as my first choice.
First off, there are many things I really appreciate about this deck:
-Free Retreat
-Almost unaffected by Ability lock
-No special Energy
-Constant and reliable one-hit Knock Outs
-Darkness Resistance
-Non-EX starter/potential attacker, which means the opponent has a harder time taking six Prizes
Of course, speed is not an advantage, but keeping Xerneas alive or streaming them means that you will still be able to set up properly and do what the deck intends to (You can defeat Despair Ray if you pull off the right plays on the first three turns and the opponent cannot respond fast enough). This deck, given time, gets deadly, which is why cards that can slow your opponent down, such as Escape Rope (without overdoing it at the cost of consistency) , are important. After your opponent's first three turns, this deck will start dealing one-hit Knock Outs, in 210 or 240 damage, even getting to a point where Stage 2 GX's are threatened at times.
I've come up with a list, for which I am missing a few cards that I will buy in the day, to then start testing it. Here is my projected list, at the moment:

Pokémon - 13
4 Gardevoir EX STS
3 M Gardevoir EX PCL
4 Xerneas XY
2 Shaymin EX ROS

Trainer - 36
3 Fairy Garden XY

1 Brock's Grit EVO
1 Hex Maniac AOR
2 Lysandre FLF
3 N FCO
4 Professor Sycamore XY

3 Escape Rope PCL
4 Gardevoir Spirit Link PCL
3 Mega Turbo ROS
4 Trainer's Mail ROS
4 Ultra Ball DEX
4 VS Seeker PHF

Energy - 11
11 Fairy Energy XY

I could make a couple of changes though, for instance cutting two or three cards to add Fairy Drop if I want to run that card, although with Professor Kukui becoming a popular staple I might not bother to.

For anyone looking to make this budget, you can cut the two Shaymin-EX (which I will include for added consistency in my list), cut two of the Trainer's Mail, add in one N, one Skyla, and either two Fairy Drop or one Fairy Energy and one Fairy Garden. Xerneas BREAK STS is a good option too in my opinion, as its Life Stream synergizes with Geomancy and the overall functionment of the deck.

You may have noticed that I've included no way to discard Benched Pokémon; you can include Parallel City if you'd like for both Mega Rayquaza-EX and bumping your Shaymin-EX, but I do not think getting rid of them is imperative, for your opponent using Lysandre to Knock them Out means that they do not hurt attackers, and still have to knock at least two Pokémon out. Despair Ray is also absent from this list, as I've decided to make it a pure Brilliant Arrow build.

As a side note, my apologies if I started some kind of war on this thread. I did acknowledge that I have been insufficiently caring for what neoshai had to say about the Pokémon TCG costing excessive amounts of money to him. I have to admit, I do think that the BREAKthrough-on format to come, which for now seems to be much more budget-friendly than the current one, looks nice, and I wish some cards from previous rotations still existed in the Standard format (Battle Compressor is an example). I respect neoshai's opinion, but I believe this hate on everything with the competitive label, although somewhat justifiable, is wrong in that it puts every top player in the same boat.

I am open to suggestions regarding my list too. Even if this creates a thread inside of another.

If you are going to play brilliant arrow gardevoir, you absolutely have to have the despair ray variant as at least a one of to control the M Mewtwo match up. It also clears your board as you pointed out.

My list...NOT budget.

Pokemon - 14
4 Xerneas AOR
3 Gardevoir EX (pick the flavor you prefer)
2 M Gardevoir EX PC
2 M Gardevoir EX STS
2 Shaymin EX
1 pick a basic (Lugia EX, Tauros GX, etc.)

Trainers - 36
4 Professor Sycamore
3 Lillie
1 N
1 Lysandre
1 Hex Maniac
1 Pokemon Center Lady
1 Brock's Grit

4 Gardevoir Spirit Link

4 VS Seeker
4 Ultra Ball
3 Trainer's Mail
3 Mega Turbo
2 Fairy Drop
1 Escape Rope

2 Fairy Garden
1 Pick Fairy Garden, Parallel City, Silent Lab

Energy - 10
10 Fairy Energy

I already know what I am going to hear. 3 Lillie? Yep. This deck falls behind far too quickly to get a T1 N shuffle draw 6. It relies heavily on cycling through cards while keeping what you need in hand. Lillie isn't for every deck, but she is pretty outstanding in this one.

The main thing though is that STS Mega allows you to start putting pressure on early if you need to get an edge. PC Mega is your sweep / hammer.

Anyway, hope that helps.

 

[TCG_Destory]

If you are going to play brilliant arrow gardevoir, you absolutely have to have the despair ray variant as at least a one of to control the M Mewtwo match up. It also clears your board as you pointed out.

My list...NOT budget.

Pokemon - 14
4 Xerneas AOR
3 Gardevoir EX (pick the flavor you prefer)
2 M Gardevoir EX PC
2 M Gardevoir EX STS
2 Shaymin EX
1 pick a basic (Lugia EX, Tauros GX, etc.)

Trainers - 36
4 Professor Sycamore
3 Lillie
1 N
1 Lysandre
1 Hex Maniac
1 Pokemon Center Lady
1 Brock's Grit

4 Gardevoir Spirit Link

4 VS Seeker
4 Ultra Ball
3 Trainer's Mail
3 Mega Turbo
2 Fairy Drop
1 Escape Rope

2 Fairy Garden
1 Pick Fairy Garden, Parallel City, Silent Lab

Energy - 10
10 Fairy Energy

I already know what I am going to hear. 3 Lillie? Yep. This deck falls behind far too quickly to get a T1 N shuffle draw 6. It relies heavily on cycling through cards while keeping what you need in hand. Lillie isn't for every deck, but she is pretty outstanding in this one.

The main thing though is that STS Mega allows you to start putting pressure on early if you need to get an edge. PC Mega is your sweep / hammer.

Anyway, hope that helps.

I used to put a copy of the Despair Ray Mega Gardevoir in my Brilliant Arrow decks, which works and puts pressure on, but in this particular build, I am looking to use Geomancy on the first couple of turns in order to then start destroying the opposing team with Brilliant Arrow. If I am facing small Pokémon (say Vespiquen), then, let's say I go second, I can use Geomancy on my first turn, attach and use a Mega Turbo on my second turn, retreat and then start causing 150 damage, which will increase with turns. This combo, in my previous builds, has proven not to be very hard to achieve, when it was needed to pull it off. It is very useful against Greninja BREAK too, and then the increasing damage means that the BREAK will go down too. In most cases, where I will Geomancy twice and thus my opponent will get three turns before I start going for the offensive, I will still have slowdown potential with Escape Rope, which is also used early game to start using Geomancy as early as possible, and there is a possibility to run Enhanced Hammer or even Silent Lab (as you've mentioned) for the same purposes. I think a 2-2 Mega Gardevoir split means that the list is not really Brilliant Arrow anymore, but that one greatly helps in situations, although as I am going to build a pure Brilliant Arrow list, I do not believe it is an absolute must overall to have the Despair Ray Mega Gardevoir in the list. I got two more reasons for this: First off, Mega Mewtwo is a reason why I run two Lysandre: not only does that allow me to choose my target more often, it will make sure that I can bring a dangerous Mega Mewtwo and either start damaging it or Knock it Out before it becomes a problem. As for Shaymin-EX, it is not really a problem to have them on the Bench, especially if only one, I believe, as your opponent targeting them means that all of your Fairy Energy stay on the field. This means they will not necessarily want them, as they will not damage your threat if they do so. I cannot prove, for now, that a pure Brilliant Arrow Mega Gardevoir deck will do very well, but this is what I will test out at the next tournament I will go to. My projected list remains unchanged for now.

 

[TCG_Destory]

By the way, I know that I said in a previous thread that I would build the Brilliant Arrow deck today, but it seems that I will have to wait until I go back home (at the end of this week) to complete that deck with cards I already have in my collection (rather than buying doubles, which does not seem worthy of it for a week). So, in any tournament I go to this week, I will play my Despair Ray deck, but I will bring a Brilliant Arrow deck to tournaments starting next week. I will keep you informed of how it does after I try it at those tournaments and after I test it.

 

[Fayld]

I used to put a copy of the Despair Ray Mega Gardevoir in my Brilliant Arrow decks, which works and puts pressure on, but in this particular build, I am looking to use Geomancy on the first couple of turns in order to then start destroying the opposing team with Brilliant Arrow. If I am facing small Pokémon (say Vespiquen), then, let's say I go second, I can use Geomancy on my first turn, attach and use a Mega Turbo on my second turn, retreat and then start causing 150 damage, which will increase with turns. This combo, in my previous builds, has proven not to be very hard to achieve, when it was needed to pull it off. It is very useful against Greninja BREAK too, and then the increasing damage means that the BREAK will go down too. In most cases, where I will Geomancy twice and thus my opponent will get three turns before I start going for the offensive, I will still have slowdown potential with Escape Rope, which is also used early game to start using Geomancy as early as possible, and there is a possibility to run Enhanced Hammer or even Silent Lab (as you've mentioned) for the same purposes. I think a 2-2 Mega Gardevoir split means that the list is not really Brilliant Arrow anymore, but that one greatly helps in situations, although as I am going to build a pure Brilliant Arrow list, I do not believe it is an absolute must overall to have the Despair Ray Mega Gardevoir in the list. I got two more reasons for this: First off, Mega Mewtwo is a reason why I run two Lysandre: not only does that allow me to choose my target more often, it will make sure that I can bring a dangerous Mega Mewtwo and either start damaging it or Knock it Out before it becomes a problem. As for Shaymin-EX, it is not really a problem to have them on the Bench, especially if only one, I believe, as your opponent targeting them means that all of your Fairy Energy stay on the field. This means they will not necessarily want them, as they will not damage your threat if they do so. I cannot prove, for now, that a pure Brilliant Arrow Mega Gardevoir deck will do very well, but this is what I will test out at the next tournament I will go to. My projected list remains unchanged for now.

I have done this deck with straight BA and 2/2. I had a longer answer typed out, but ultimately deleted it. I think you will struggle with the fact that BA takes too long to effectively 1 shot everything leaving you vulnerable to losing one + the energy attached to it before you can get the one shots rolling. There are plenty of decks that can and will disrupt your energy or overpower you before you can get BA up. If you only have BA as your primary attacker, I think it will struggle with speed.

Seems like we generally don't agree on this particular set of Megas LOL!

 

[antonjg]

I feel like gardevoir can't really be a budget build

 

[swan]

I feel like gardevoir can't really be a budget build

PRC gardevoir can be a budget build...

If you are going to play brilliant arrow gardevoir, you absolutely have to have the despair ray variant as at least a one of to control the M Mewtwo match up. It also clears your board as you pointed out.

I know this was a big thing that revived PRC Mgardy when the STS version came out, however I don't really see Mm2 as that bad of a matchup (is it? Elaborate?). That being said, having a copy of despair ray turns the MU into close an to auto-win whilst it is good in general due to the cheap energy cost and dumping ability.

Of course, speed is not an advantage, but keeping Xerneas alive or streaming them means that you will still be able to set up properly and do what the deck intends to (You can defeat Despair Ray if you pull off the right plays on the first three turns and the opponent cannot respond fast enough)

I'm also wondering about this: Is despair ray a bad matchup either? The problem that I've always had with despair ray gardy is how much less presure it gives off when going second. In light of this, the only threat it has are early lysandres at non-mega gardys and a quick takedown on xerneas, which is much less promenent when going 2nd against you as you can mega evolve first.

 

[Fayld]

I know this was a big thing that revived PRC Mgardy when the STS version came out, however I don't really see Mm2 as that bad of a matchup (is it? Elaborate?). That being said, having a copy of despair ray turns the MU into close an to auto-win whilst it is good in general due to the cheap energy cost and dumping ability.

I'm also wondering about this: Is despair ray a bad matchup either? The problem that I've always had with despair ray gardy is how much less presure it gives off when going second. In light of this, the only threat it has are early lysandres at non-mega gardys and a quick takedown on xerneas, which is much less promenent when going 2nd against you as you can mega evolve first.

I will address these two questions

Regarding MM2 as a bad match up, I wouldn't argue it is bad on its face. I would argue that it is bad because the MM2 player only needs to get one MM up and running quickly + 1 Lysandre and PRC Gardevoir is probably behind already. Allow me to pose this scenario as an example: Say MM2 goes 1st. Say you even start perfectly and get Xerneas up top, 2 Gardevoir EXs on your bench, 2 spirit links on your Gardevoirs. Let's even make this super awesome and say that at the end of T1, you have 1 Fairy energy in your discard + 2 BA Gards in hand + 1 Mega Turbo. Because you went second, both BA Garbs start with 1 Fairy each + 1 Fairy on Xerneas. T2, MM hits the board, they Mega Turbo into 1 Psychic + 1 DCE on the MM. Let's just assume they added the other DCE to a benched M2 to set up the second one rather than just stomping your Gardevoir T2. They Lysandre up one of the Gards and hit it for 130. T2, you level into BA, attach one energy, use Mega Turbo and get another onto BA and for kicks, let's just say you swap them out free with Fairy Garden. Now you have a 3 energy BA waiting to hit MM2 for 150 (5 energy on the board). That's solid. Except that now you are absolutely relying on heals + 0 energy attachments on the current active MM to survive the next hit. All this while having a Gard on your bench that has been damaged for 120.

Basically, what that book of a paragraph is attempting to establish isn't some crazy scenario. That is common for both you and MM2. The difference is that MM2 is one energy connection away from burning your active, is setting up a second MM free of damage, and only has to hit your eventual BA Garb for 90 to knock it out. You will be down 4 prizes to 2 after T3. That's hard to overcome. Not impossible. But hard.

By contrast, DR Gardevoir ends the threat T2 by knocking out MM #1 and forcing MM #2 to have a whopping 2 DCE + 1 P to knock out your DR Gardevoir. That absolutely turns the scenario on its head...all by using the options available to you by having two different primary attackers.

As for the DR Gardy "mirror", I honestly don't know that I think it is any better or worse. Both need to hit for 210 to bring down the mega. DR Gardy can get two up and running faster with fewer turns needed to make that happen. By contrast, BA can be up and running on a full 1 shot DR with only 7 energy on the board (which is extremely likely by T3 and quite doable by T2 if you can get 2 Geomancy off / hit enough Turbos). It always turns on whether BA Gardy gets heals and DR Gardy can keep that bench up. If BA can limit the bench to 5 with the right stadium, BA should win with enough healing because BA 1 shots DR with 7 energy on the board. Dunno. I think the match up is pretty even IMO. Just depends on who gets what breaks.

I am sure others have different experiences with that match up, but I haven't found BA to get overwhelmed by DR H2H.

 

[swan]

I will address these two questions

Regarding MM2 as a bad match up, I wouldn't argue it is bad on its face. I would argue that it is bad because the MM2 player only needs to get one MM up and running quickly + 1 Lysandre and PRC Gardevoir is probably behind already. Allow me to pose this scenario as an example: Say MM2 goes 1st. Say you even start perfectly and get Xerneas up top, 2 Gardevoir EXs on your bench, 2 spirit links on your Gardevoirs. Let's even make this super awesome and say that at the end of T1, you have 1 Fairy energy in your discard + 2 BA Gards in hand + 1 Mega Turbo. Because you went second, both BA Garbs start with 1 Fairy each + 1 Fairy on Xerneas. T2, MM hits the board, they Mega Turbo into 1 Psychic + 1 DCE on the MM. Let's just assume they added the other DCE to a benched M2 to set up the second one rather than just stomping your Gardevoir T2. They Lysandre up one of the Gards and hit it for 130. T2, you level into BA, attach one energy, use Mega Turbo and get another onto BA and for kicks, let's just say you swap them out free with Fairy Garden. Now you have a 3 energy BA waiting to hit MM2 for 150 (5 energy on the board). That's solid. Except that now you are absolutely relying on heals + 0 energy attachments on the current active MM to survive the next hit. All this while having a Gard on your bench that has been damaged for 120.

Basically, what that book of a paragraph is attempting to establish isn't some crazy scenario. That is common for both you and MM2. The difference is that MM2 is one energy connection away from burning your active, is setting up a second MM free of damage, and only has to hit your eventual BA Garb for 90 to knock it out. You will be down 4 prizes to 2 after T3. That's hard to overcome. Not impossible. But hard.

By contrast, DR Gardevoir ends the threat T2 by knocking out MM #1 and forcing MM #2 to have a whopping 2 DCE + 1 P to knock out your DR Gardevoir. That absolutely turns the scenario on its head...all by using the options available to you by having two different primary attackers.

As for the DR Gardy "mirror", I honestly don't know that I think it is any better or worse. Both need to hit for 210 to bring down the mega. DR Gardy can get two up and running faster with fewer turns needed to make that happen. By contrast, BA can be up and running on a full 1 shot DR with only 7 energy on the board (which is extremely likely by T3 and quite doable by T2 if you can get 2 Geomancy off / hit enough Turbos). It always turns on whether BA Gardy gets heals and DR Gardy can keep that bench up. If BA can limit the bench to 5 with the right stadium, BA should win with enough healing because BA 1 shots DR with 7 energy on the board. Dunno. I think the match up is pretty even IMO. Just depends on who gets what breaks.

I am sure others have different experiences with that match up, but I haven't found BA to get overwhelmed by DR H2H.

Thanks for the input! I mm2 matchup feels like it can go either way without DR gardy, but should be easy with it (Despair ray has it's other aforementioned perks). I imagine that Mray is a bigger problem then despair ray in what PRC gardy has to deal with.