Gengar EX and M Gengar EX

[hawk45678]

It looks like Gengar EX is going to be ok, but it is still worse than Landorus EX's Hammerhead but it can do 60 to an active Lucario. M Gengar EX's first attack is pretty crappy but a dimensional ravine and a DCE you can do 120 a turn plus poison, so a virbank could do 150 the drawback is that you have to switch out, the good thing about these cards is a weakness to dark and resistance to fighting, but Lucario's 60 + Strong + Muscle Band + Fighting Stadium does enough to 2HKO the Gengar and Gengar can 2HKO Lucario but a lot easier.

Translations: http://pokebeach.com/2014/08/corocoro-reveals-gengar-ex-m-gengar-ex-dialga-ex-aegislash-ex-dimensional-valley

 

[OmniPoke]

I saw this on bulbapedia and it looks like Gengar EX is going to be ok, but it is still worse than Landorus EX's Hammerhead but it can do 60 to an active Lucario. M Gengar EX's first attack is pretty crappy but a dimensional ravine and a DCE you can do 120 a turn plus poison, so a virbank could do 150 the drawback is that you have to switch out, the good thing about these cards is a weakness to dark and resistance to fighting, but Lucario's 60 + Strong + Muscle Band + Fighting Stadium does enough to 2HKO the Gengar and Gengar can 2HKO Lucario but a lot easier

also found this and Aegislash is going to be the bane of pokemon with strong energy, but is weak to all Pyroar or Charizard decks, even DelBoar

Unfortunately, due to Gengar's attack reading "Put 3 damage counters on 1 of your opponents Pokemon" It will still only do 30 damage to an active Lucario since you are placing the damage rather than attacking with damage. And with the Dimensional Valley stadium (to which I presume you're referring to), you wouldn't require the DCE since the stadium reduces attacks by a [C] cost. That being said you will still need a [P] energy too. Despite all of this, I do like Gengar's second attack and I think the card will definitely see some play in some form or another. Whether it will reduce the Fighting type's current influence on the Metagame remains to be seen but I really think it will.

~ Jack, OmniPoke

 

[pokedan24]

Possible deck: Trevenant/Dragalge/Gengar. It's possible now (lasers), but Gengar gives it an alternate attacker. I'd probably play Virbank over the other stadium though.

 

[hawk45678]

Possible deck: Trevenant/Dragalge/Gengar. It's possible now (lasers), but Gengar gives it an alternate attacker. I'd probably play Virbank over the other stadium though.

Either one could work but virbank would be way better.

 

[pokedan24]

Thinking about M Lucario, I wonder how good the move really is.

Against Virgen, it could be really good if you could copy G Booster. Though if not, you still have Megalo Cannon which is solid enough as it is.

Against fighting decks, you have quite a few moves to choose from, but you don't get all the damage boosts that make fighting decks work. You also couldn't use Landorus's big attack unless you run fighting energy. At least Gengar resists fighting and Lucario has psychic weakness.

Similar problem with plasma decks; much of the power comes from Deoxys EX, who's attack you wouldn't be able to copy unless you happen to run plasma energy (same thing with Lugia). You could copy thundurus's second attack (solid 90) either of Kyurems attacks, or Genesect, if they happen to be running that.

Gengar's weak to dark so it probably wouldn't be too good against Yveltal decks, but there are plenty of good attacks to copy from Evil Ball to Y Cyclone, to Night Spear.

Pyroar: Gengar can counter Pyroar just fine (not a basic), but hopefully an opponent has other attackers you could copy to deal with it (Mewtwo and Charizard come to mind).

Blastoise: Probably the best matchup if they're running BKEX. If you run the stadium, you can kill pretty much anything for just 2 energy (tried this with Foul Play Zoroark on PTCGO, could still use it even though I didn't have 3 energy to discard). Though if it's just Blastoise/Keldeo, have fun doing 50/60 damage.

So what I'm getting at is that most of the attacks you could copy are already cheaper than the attack cost of Gengar, and don't require a mega evolution. The ones you would want to use require some kind of specific setup. I don't think M Gengar is bad; I think it could be good against decks that use a variety of attackers (like fighting or plasma, even though they don't get the same benefits), and also cards like BKEX, which are designed to OHKO, but have funky attack costs (making it more practical to use with Gengar).

 

[Takezo_Kensei]

Gengar/Trevenant will be a fun deck to toy around with, but Dragalge might prove to be too slow and un-productive. That and Keldeo simply destroys the poison lock.

While this version of the deck might not see major competitive play, Gengar EX might prove itself in other decks.

 

[hawk45678]

Thinking about M Lucario, I wonder how good the move really is.

Against Virgen, it could be really good if you could copy G Booster. Though if not, you still have Megalo Cannon which is solid enough as it is.

Against fighting decks, you have quite a few moves to choose from, but you don't get all the damage boosts that make fighting decks work. You also couldn't use Landorus's big attack unless you run fighting energy. At least Gengar resists fighting and Lucario has psychic weakness.

Similar problem with plasma decks; much of the power comes from Deoxys EX, who's attack you wouldn't be able to copy unless you happen to run plasma energy (same thing with Lugia). You could copy thundurus's second attack (solid 90) either of Kyurems attacks, or Genesect, if they happen to be running that.

Gengar's weak to dark so it probably wouldn't be too good against Yveltal decks, but there are plenty of good attacks to copy from Evil Ball to Y Cyclone, to Night Spear.

Pyroar: Gengar can counter Pyroar just fine (not a basic), but hopefully an opponent has other attackers you could copy to deal with it (Mewtwo and Charizard come to mind).

Blastoise: Probably the best matchup if they're running BKEX. If you run the stadium, you can kill pretty much anything for just 2 energy (tried this with Foul Play Zoroark on PTCGO, could still use it even though I didn't have 3 energy to discard). Though if it's just Blastoise/Keldeo, have fun doing 50/60 damage.

So what I'm getting at is that most of the attacks you could copy are already cheaper than the attack cost of Gengar, and don't require a mega evolution. The ones you would want to use require some kind of specific setup. I don't think M Gengar is bad; I think it could be good against decks that use a variety of attackers (like fighting or plasma, even though they don't get the same benefits), and also cards like BKEX, which are designed to OHKO, but have funky attack costs (making it more practical to use with Gengar).

You could run the ravine stadium if you were going to focus on M Gengar, but if you are going to focus on Gengar EX himself you could run virbank, and if you run both you could run 2 copies of each or more of whatever one you prefer.

 

[pokedan24]

^

I think it depends. PCC attack costs don't really need the stadium as it would still take two attachments. Not that it wouldn't benefit, but when you have an attack that poisons, the obvious combo is virbank. But for M Gengar's attack, I'd probably run dimensional valley unless I'm playing lasers (which I don't think would go well in the deck anyway). Also, Gengar's first attack (placing 3 damage counters on a pokemon) benefits greatly from dimensional valley.

 

[hawk45678]

Yes 30 for zero on any pokemon is amazing. My question is, can it be used with muscle band as you are placing rather than damaging?

 

[Auride]

yes 30 for zero on any pokemon is amazing, my question is, can it be used with muscle band as you are placing rather than damaging?

Muscle band's effect only applies to dealt damage. Placing damage counters is considered a wholly different action, and thus Gengar-EX's Shadow Attack is unaffected by Muscle band.

However, that also means it bypasses things like Mr.Mime's Bench Barrier, which is neat.

 

[hawk45678]

Would it bypass safeguard because it isn't technically "damage" done it is just placed counters?

 

[Auride]

However, that also means it bypasses things like Mr.Mime's Bench Barrier, which is neat.

Safeguard is, in fact, a thing like Mr. Mime's Bench Barrier. So Shadow Attack does get around it.

EDIT: I'm wrong. Boo.

 

[AlexanderTheAwesome]

Thinking about M Lucario, I wonder how good the move really is.

Against Virgen, it could be really good if you could copy G Booster. Though if not, you still have Megalo Cannon which is solid enough as it is.

Unfortunately you can't use G-Booster, since it's not Genesect's attack (if this works like Mew EX). Think of it as Genesect is just "borrowing" G-Booster's attack, but since G-Booster isn't a Pokemon, Gengar can't copy its attacks.

 

[Machamp The Champion]

However, that also means it bypasses things like Mr.Mime's Bench Barrier, which is neat.

Safeguard is, in fact, a thing like Mr. Mime's Bench Barrier. So Shadow Attack does get around it.

This is actually not the correct ruling. Safeguard prevents all effects of attacks, not just damage, and Night Attack is affecting Sigilyph/Suicune with an attack. Pyroar would however be damaged by Night Attack, since Intimidating Mane only blocks damage, not effects.

On topic, I think Gengar could be a playable card. Dark Corridor is a very scary attack with Virbank and Trevenant's ability. Seismitoad preventing Items isn't that big of a deal, since you can just not evolve into Trevenant, and attach a Mystery Energy to your Phantump or another Gengar EX, and switch into that. Night Attack is nice early game with Dimensional Valley to snipe everywhere while powering up a benched Gengar or something else. You can even use Max Potion and troll a lot of decks.

M Gengar is just bad honestly. Not many decks have that strong attacks to copy with. The most you'll be doing is 100 with Somersault Kick or Megalo Cannon, which isn't very good. It doesn't even knock out Pyroar in 1 hit. That's just sad.

 

[manu_1543]

"Pyroar: Gengar can counter Pyroar just fine (not a basic), but hopefully an opponent has other attackers you could copy to deal with it (Mewtwo and Charizard come to mind). "

Hi. A question: how is that possible.. this gengar (basic) can damage Pyroar.

 

[TokenDuelist]

"Pyroar: Gengar can counter Pyroar just fine (not a basic), but hopefully an opponent has other attackers you could copy to deal with it (Mewtwo and Charizard come to mind). "

Hi. A question: how is that possible.. this gengar (basic) can damage Pyroar.

Gengar is placing damage counters on the Pokemon. Not directly damaging it.

Damage = The Pokemon using an attack that /deals/ damage. This is considered damage being dealt.
Placing Damage Counters = If a Pokemon uses an attack that /places/ damage counters it is not considered damage being dealt because the Pokemon is not actually attacking it.

 

[Machamp The Champion]

"Pyroar: Gengar can counter Pyroar just fine (not a basic), but hopefully an opponent has other attackers you could copy to deal with it (Mewtwo and Charizard come to mind). "

Hi. A question: how is that possible.. this gengar (basic) can damage Pyroar.

I believe they were referring to M Gengar, actually. M Gengar is an Evolution, so it's able to hurt Pyroar. It would be able to kill Pyroar faster if the Pyroar player had a Benched Mewtwo or Charizard for the Gengar player to copy the attack of.

Although what TokenDuelist said is also correct: Gengar EX may hurt Pyroar with Night Attack because it is placing damage counters.

 

[thedemonbarber]

Anybody thinking about wailord gengar max potion garbodor virbank?

 

[oXHASEOXo]

I built a M Gengar Deck. It did horrible. the problem is his attack doesn't work well against mid-range decks. Against Vir/Gen decks, doing only 50 dmg to Virizion EX is laughable. He just keeps building. And 100 to Genesect doesn't do anything either. Specially since you can't use his G Booster. Against Lugia decks, You can't even use Lugia's attack due to not having a plasma energy attached to Gengar. I changed my deck so it had 2 plasma energies. They just get hammered off.
Here's my deck list. This is the best i could make the deck. On my best draw, i decked out in about 4 turns. It moves sooo quick it's unreal, when it wants to move quick. On second thought, my deck list is at home. I'll have to post it up here in a couple of hours. It runs Magnezone for dual supporters. So i can Juniper and Lysandre in the same turn.

 

[oXHASEOXo]

Pokemon: 12
3 Gengar EX
3 M Gengar EX
3 Magnemite
3 Magnezone

Trainers: 39
1 Scramble Switch
3 Dimension Valley
4 N
4 Juniper
4 Bianca
2 Skyla
2 Gengar Spirit Link
4 Switch
3 Energy Switch
3 Lysandre
2 VS Seeker
2 Max Potion
3 Rare Candy
2 Ultra Ball

Energy: 9
4 Mystery Energy (made me get rid of float stone)
3 Electric
2 Psychic

Deck was unbelievably quick. Decked out often. Problem was that his attack just wasn't good enough for most of the top decks.
useless against Yveltal. it can two shot him, but can't transfer energy before getting destroyed. Lugia, it's useless against unless you run plasma energy and the best against Vir/Gen was two prize cards... I tried running the +20atk, tool (forget the name of it, lol) it didn't make a difference. and they can get knocked off to become useless cards.