Going Beach-less?

JungleBeatz

JungleBeatz

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So, as a fairly new Pokemon competitive TCG Player and not made of money. I do not possess any tropical beaches. I've been building some decks where tropical beach is "needed" (PlasmaKlang / Rayboar / Blastoise / Keldeo).

I wanna know from some players if Tropical beach is truly essentially for certain decks or can you get away without using them? If you can at least the 3 decks above (you can list other decks as well) whether not to beach, that would be appreciated. I'm typically looking for people to answer this question that have play tested with AND without beaches in each of the 3 decks.

Thanks!
 
Klinklang might be able to get by without beach, but rayboar and stoise definitely need it. There are plenty of decks you can play without beach. One card I've been liking a lot in this format is Tropius. However it gets one less card in exchange for 10 damage, and doubles as a Blastoise/Keldeo counter.
 
I've been playing Blastiose with Electrode. That sounds like the cheap way out, but drawing mid turn is actually quite powerful. Beach can still be used, but Electrode has been working pretty well for me.
 
I'm in the process of building rayboar and I don't see it being necessary except on turn 1. I see beach being more useful in PlasmaKlang because you aren't attacking every turn and that deck isn't built for speed (so you have turns to beach with).
 
I like to think that if you build your deck right, you can do well enough. It's not like you add that one card and you go from embarrassing newb to winning every tournament. Althoug a late-game Beach can get you out of a crisis.
 
Currently I'm play testing rayboar on PTCGO to get a feel, so far it would be helpful to beach turn 1 or turn 2, but not 175$ worth it.
 
Empoleon/Dusknoir gets by without Beach and is one of the most popular decks in the current format for that reason. The only thing I don't like about RayBoar is the fact that when Delphox (Mystical Fire) makes up for getting by without Beach in it, it's not nearly as consistent and takes up deck space. Here's how I'd build RayBoar after X&Y Base Set is released -

Pokemon (18)
  • 3-1-3 Delphox (X&Y)
  • 2-0-2 Emboar (Legendary Treasures)
  • 2-2 Leafeon (Plasma Freeze)
  • 2 Rayquaza EX
  • 1 Jolteon (Dark Explorers)
Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums (23)
  • 3 N
  • 3 Rare Candy
  • 3 Cilan
  • 3 Skyla
  • 3 Switch
  • 3 Muscle Band/Silver Bangle
  • 2 Tool Scrapper
  • 1 Dowsing Machine
  • 1 Town Map
  • 1 Super Rod
Energy (19)

  • 9 Lightning
    10 Fire
Deck Total (60)

The deck itself is basically DelBoar with Rayquaza EX thrown in as a backup attacker while you have Leafeon covering against Keldeo EX for Rush In as an easy Energy Crush target with either Silver Bangle or Muscle Band attached. Tool Scrapper is to help get around Garbodor for when they try to shutdown Delphox's Mystical Fire ability which is your main draw engine in this deck.

Delphox will be your main attacker in the deck since it has more damage output with Blaze Ball than Heat Crash does with Emboar plus with all the drawpower you amass with Mystical Fire plus Cilan for getting energies to attach using Inferno Fandango you should be good to go from there.

Jolteon is thrown in to help get around Empoleon/Dusknoir and with a single Muscle Band attachment you should easily be able to deal an easy 160 to it using Electrigun. I would strongly prefer Muscle Band over Silver Bangle in this deck but for other decks I would normally recommend Silver Bangle due to how Basic EX's are still prominent in the current format.
 
I dont think you quite understand the mechanics of a RayBoar Deck, First I'd like to point out, you have 0 Eevees making jolt and leafy useless. Anyways, The goal is to attack with Ray EX, you don't need a large amount Lightning energies since you can attach quicker with the fire energies and only have to discard one or the other (usually picking 3 fires for 180 damage). You don't have any retrievals to get back energies after you use them; you don't need a town map; you don't need Leafeon or Jolteon; And NO JUNIPERS / SYCAMORES? Gothetelle and Trevenant can prevent people from using Rare candies and Emboar is your main accelerator you absolutely need 1 Pignite. I'd rather have 3-1-3 line for Tepig and 2-1-2 for Fennekin since Emboar is a focus and accelerator of the deck.
Due to all these changes and missing cards, I'm going to disagree the deck list posted.
 
That's fine although I'm sorry for messing up on the decklist, I think you understand how to run RayBoar better than I do so I'll just leave it at that. I'll admit I never got around to playtesting the deck myself since I only run Empoleon/Dusknoir which is the most consistent for me. However I've been playing the Pokemon TCG since 2008 so I'm usually pretty good at building decks consistently, most of the time.
 
My comments pertain to only Blastoise and RayBoar; I have not ever run PlasmaKlang. However, some of the comments do also apply to any stage 2 decks (e.g., Empoleon).

From my experience in running Blastoise-BKEX-Keldeo and Rayquaza-Emboar WITH Tropical Beach (TB) is that TB serves 2 primary purposes:

  • TB greatly enhances/accelerates your supporting stage 2 line setup. The "ideal" situation is to go first, put a TB into play, get at least 2 Squirtles/Tepigs benched and "play down" your hand in order to replenish it as much as possible, via TB, in order to to start attacking by turn 2.
  • The second key purpose of TB is to displace any opponent's Stadium, especially Frozen City (selected instances). In many cases, TB is not used much after turn 2 for drawing purposes.
I've also run both of these decks WITHOUT Tropical Beaches and my setup is slower (by a turn, 60% of the time), but I've used some alternatives (e.g., CfF Poke, more Balls) that help facilitate setup. You still need to run 2-3 Stadiums as counters to your opponents' Stadiums.

When opposing a player running TBs and I run my PlasmaBox or Darkrai deck, I do replace my opponent's TB as quickly as possible, especially early game.

Lastly, some players I know run their stage 2 decks (e.g., Darkrai-Hydreigon) without TBs and they do quite well without them. I also do not run TBs in my Empoleon deck since I already have significant card-draw power in the deck.
 
I used to play Klinklang last season, and even while I only had 1 tropical beach, it was very useful tournament-wise. Think about it, Cobalion can only do 30 damage with one energy, and 100 with 3. That means by the time you get up 3 energy you could only have done 160 to the active pokemon. Which if it is a BKEX or any 170-180 hp EX then it is a waste! Using beach the first turn, especially after the rule change (and if you are going first anyways) is very helpful. Don't forget that KK is a stage 2 deck, so beach is already extremely useful. But honestly, after turn 1 it is a liability for your opponent. You'd most likely want to switch that out for a Pokémon center or a skyarrow bridge.

On the topic of going "beachless" for this deck it is not bad. I top 8'd last years regionals with this deck without a beach, even playing 2 mirror match-ups with beach! While I used one beach for Nationals and even now, preferably 2 or no beaches is the best bet for this deck (I can't afford another unfortunately).
 
I not sure if this has already been mentioned, but Electrode is a pretty nice substitute. Think of it as an insurance policy for late game N's, and you need to pull off three more Energy for a final Black Balista/Dragon Burst.
 
Is evolving into an electrode worth the deck space or possibly opening with a voltorb that might cost you the game?
 
Does anyone think that lowering the skyla count for more draw supporters and/or bicycles would be a good flexible counter to going beachless?
 
JungleBeatz said:
Is evolving into an electrode worth the deck space or possibly opening with a voltorb that might cost you the game?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Donks really aren't that prevalant, and a few of the top decks can't even launch an attack turn one anyway. You already have to set up a Blastoise or an Emboar, so you already have enough search cards to fish it out. And if you can attach all of the Energy in your hand or play an Ultra Ball, then you can even use it mid game. Some of the good listsnI've seen that made cut in Cities had at least a 1-1 Electrode line.
 
Personally I would like 2 bicycles rather than try to evolve an electrode if I dont magnetic draw more than twice
 
Alright so do these decks need Tropical Beach? No! Nothing "needs" a certain card as you pick and choose what to run. However Tropical Beach helps these decks with the consistency issue. You can choose to run a stage 2 deck without beach but you loose consistency. You have to understand that you can get setup without Tropical Beach however it just happens a lot less often. Consistency is everything right now and I honestly wouldn't take the risk to run any stage 2 deck (except may be Empoleon) without beach.
 
I don't have any in my Blastoise deck and I seem to get by just fine. Granted, I only play at a small league so there's not a whole lot of competition, but I do play against some strong decks. There are times when I hit a roadblock and I have no energy, but that seems to happen rarely.
 
JungleBeatz said:
Is evolving into an electrode worth the deck space or possibly opening with a voltorb that might cost you the game?
Click to expand...
Personally, I'd never play Electrode for several reasons:
  • Starting with an easily KOd Voltorb is never good.
  • Electrodes are also easily KOd.
  • Requires at least 4-6 dedicated deck card slots in order to enhance your chances of getting a 2-2 line onto your bench. These slots could be better served with strong card draw Supporters, IMHO.
On the other hand, I really like it when my opponent plays them for they take up valuable bench spots too. In so doing, I feel my game-winning chances increase.

JungleBeatz said:
Does anyone think that lowering the skyla count for more draw supporters and/or bicycles would be a good flexible counter to going beachless?
Click to expand...
Yes, depending upon the deck (of course).

In all of my stage 2 decks, I tend to run 3 Skyla. These are used to facilitate setting up my stage 2 line(s) mostly as quickly as possible. I will also tend to run 1 Bicycle in these decks should I ever need to draw cards and I do have a Skyla in hand.

I also have a Poke pal who tested running more Bicycles and Balls with fewer Supporters. He liked the results of his playtesting.
 
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