Mora said:
TuxedoBlack said:
Completely RELEVANT when you have a number of key Poké being played that can snipe an opponent’s bench, as well as Dusknoir’s Sinister Hand that drop damage counters onto it. Also, a number of players here do play Escape Rope; so, it would not be unlikely that an Electrode would be promoted to the active position to "take one for the team."
But again, that's assuming your opponent even cares about an Electrode. When your playing against something like Blastoise, sometimes you can't even afford to Catcher Blastoise because they already have enough Energy on the field to run right through you, and Blastoise only gives up one prize anyway. If that's the case with Blastoise, a Pokemon which I recall you even saying is so much more important (and it is), then how much more so with an Electrode. Even if they could afford to do something with Catcher/Sinister Hand/snipe damage, they'll definitely go for Blastoise over Electrode any day. (If you're still worried about snipe damage, Mr. Mime is an option.) As for Escape Rope, you generally have a choice. If you want to promote Electrode, that will be a strategic decision that you will make; it's nothing forced.
Agreed that the Blastoise would most definitely be a strategic target, but the Electrode(s) are also targets that become, more often than not, potential game-losing liabilities due to their relative low HP. For example, I will deliberately set the game board such that I can Sinister Hand damage counter onto the Electrodes for the game win.
Mora said:
TuxedoBlack said:
Whether it’s 2 or 4 or 6 card slots, one is still sacrificing something more important (IMHO) for the Electrode line(s). In addition, given that you have an Electrode drawing engine, one should(?) also alter the makeup of the deck in order to optimize drawing (as I’ve seen) quickly. You can still accomplish this “style” without the addition of these Poké.
| Mora's List | Tuxedo's List |
| 4 Juniper | 3 Juniper |
| 2 N | 3 N |
| 3 Skyla | 3 Skyla |
| 2 Colress | 2 Colress |
| 2-2 Electrode | 4 Bicycle |
If the main difference in our lists is 4 Bicycle over 2-2 Electrode, then the only thing I would be sacrificing is 4 Bicycle, which is basically the same thing as 4 Bicycle but in some situations better and in some situations worse. So technically I'm not sacrificing anything. You said, "These slots could be better served with strong card draw Supporters," but really, you're just swapping them for a different brand. It's like Pepsi vs Coke. Not so much Coke vs water.
(By the way, the Table construct is very cool.)
I don’t believe the main differences lie in the above listed Trainers, but elsewhere. Consider the following:
- From my experience, the “typical” Blastoise Poke lineup includes the following Poke: 1 Black Kyurem, 3/2 Black Kyurem EX, 3 Blastoise, 1 Exeggcute, 2/3 Keldeo EX, and 3 Squirtle. In addition, let’s incorporate the 2-2 Electrode line. This totals 17 Poke.
- For energy, the “typical” list utilizes a total of 12 energy comprised of: 3 L and 9 W.
- Of the remaining 31 card slots, the Trainers would possibly consist of: 1 Cilan, 2 Colress, 1 Dowsing Machine, 2 Energy Retrieval, 2 N, 4 PJ, 4 Rare Candy, 3 Skyla, 1 Super Rod, 3 Superior Energy Retrieval, 2 Switch, 2 Tool Scrapper, and 3 Stadiums (non-Tropical Beach).
As you can see, there is only 1 card slot remaining, but no Level nor Ultra Balls are listed. One can disagree with the above Trainer mix as being essential or critical and possibly exclude the 2 Switch and 1 Tool Scrapper (for example) in order to add 2 Level and 2 Ultra balls, but that decision sacrifices some advantages in certain matchups e.g., Big Basics or Darkrai with Garbodor. For any other Trainers replacement, I've found similar concerns in key game matchups.
I believe therein lies some potential differences when incorporating the Electrode line(s). If the Poke, Energy, and ”main” Trainers (i.e., 2 Colress, 1 DM, 2 ER, 2 N, 4 PJ, 4 RC, 3 Skyla, 1 Super Rod, 3 SER, 2 TS and 3 Stadiums) are considered “fixed,” some trade-offs/sacrifices need to be made in the Trainer mix in order to incorporate the Electrode line(s). My observations noted "few" Level and Ultra Balls in players’ decks or other key Trainers that seem to "hurt" the deck's operations more than "help," IMHO.
From what I’ve seen in actual tournament play (2 players ran Beach-less stage 2 decks with Electrodes), as well as, my discussions with some top players, the sacrifices/trade-offs one needs to make to incorporate Electrode lines do not provide enough reward vs. risk, at least for me.
