Discussion Going into expanded blind please help

Empoleon_master

Empoleon_master

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I need help. I'm screwed with an upcoming tournament but I'm going to it for expanded. Here's the decks I can run. And I can easily run any combination of these if needed, but I would need a list for it because hell if I know what I'd be doing at that point.

Genesect Virizion (mostly scrapped after donphan made it cry 4-6 battles at a cities once) Metal ray (I have a pretty good list with this.)
Pure Rayquaza ex shaymin. (I have tried this deck and only failed miserably with it, just while testing) Raychu (I have crap for a list though)

Raichu bats (I have no clue where to begin with a list for this deck)

Mega manectric with wobbutfett and/or garbodor. (I also have a PLS BK ex if I want to run that deck that used it with manectric and empoleon)

Empoleon Dusknoir (I LOVE EMPOLEON.....if it didn't suck against yveltal EX and toad)

Machamp ex/ariados (I know some of you say it sucks but I like the idea at least as I have yet to test it) Pangoro Xy 50 promo/ariados with Jinx the idea is that you deal a minimum of 120 damage each turn with a non ex that has 200 hp and gets healed 20 damage each turn via jinx. Note I only have 2 jinx atm.

Mega sceptile + whatever I am to pair it with. (So far going with 2 lugia and a 2-2-2 vileplume line has at least made me get close to victories, but no wins.)

Vespiquen, this is what I feel like will get me better chances at the tournament, I just need a good list. I have 4 energy evolution evees and 2 of Flareon, Jolteon, and Vaporeon. I only have a general idea of how to build the deck and play it.

Mega Tyranitar with 2 fortress (FLF) or 4-4-3 bats I know the deck is slow etc but if needed I could build it.

Mega gardevior
Fairy tool box (I LOVED playing this)

Other cards that have some competitive viability that I have:
4 Gengar ex (I HAVE NO TREVENANT)
4 hoopa ex
6 +shiftry from FLASH FIRE (the grass type one that could be really good with mega sceptile ex and lugia ex with sky field as all it needs is a dce, 1 grass energy and it's basically Empoleon's attack command with 20 damage for each pokemon.)
4 unown ancient origins
1-2 deluge blastoise
Computer search
Dowsing machine
4 landorus FURIOUS FISTS
4 shaymin ex ROS
The Eels from ray eels, but no ray ex
7 Dual brains magnizone PLS
1-3 Flareon with Revenge (I honestly don't know how many I have as I keep finding them)
3-2-4 vileplume (I sadly don't have enough gloom or oddish for a full line)


I know I'll totally have my ***** handed to me this sunday but I still want to see how well I can do at the tournament.

I recently realized that I could also run Flareon with the type adding eveelutions so that way it's more consistant than a vepiquen deck as I only need the evees to evolve.

If someone could please help me I really need it as I've had 0 experience with expanded as I could never afford to go to regionals or nationals.
 
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I think vespiqueen is really fun to play its what I'm running and I hope you'll consider it too
It's really fast it gets in some hard hits and it goes for weakness plus the more your own vespiqueen get knocked out the harder the others hit. it truly is bee revenge
 
Thank you note that I don't have any night marchers and don't really know how to build vespiquen so I need all the help I can get. I don't even know how people that play the deck get more than like 8 or so pokemon into the discard pile.
 
If someone could show me a basic Vespiquen deck I would really appreciate it. I really want to know how the hell to make it work.
 
Empoleon_master said:
Thank you note that I don't have any night marchers and don't really know how to build vespiquen so I need all the help I can get. I don't even know how people that play the deck get more than like 8 or so pokemon into the discard pile.
Click to expand...

A Night March build is different than Vespiquen. While both do focus on discarding and many similar cards, Vespiquen is your main attacker and is focusing on using the new Eeveelution lineups that add typing damage (ex. Flareon adds fire based damage to all stage ones) and manipulating it to do damage to Pokémon weak to it. So Vespiquen hits for weakness against Siemitoad on it's own, but you can play Jolteon and sit it on the bench to hit Rayquaza for weakness when you attack with Vespiquen. When playing Vespiquen you're adding things like Arco Bike, Battle Compressor, and Ultra Ball to quickly burn through your deck to stack damage. It's predecessor, Flareon is pretty much the same way. With this said though, there is a fine balance of knowing when and what to discard in the deck and placing energy on to your Pokémon since it'll be scarce as well as knowing what exactly is in your prizes.
 
SilverSilent said:
A Night March build is different than Vespiquen. While both do focus on discarding and many similar cards, Vespiquen is your main attacker and is focusing on using the new Eeveelution lineups that add typing damage (ex. Flareon adds fire based damage to all stage ones) and manipulating it to do damage to Pokémon weak to it. So Vespiquen hits for weakness against Siemitoad on it's own, but you can play Jolteon and sit it on the bench to hit Rayquaza for weakness when you attack with Vespiquen. When playing Vespiquen you're adding things like Arco Bike, Battle Compressor, and Ultra Ball to quickly burn through your deck to stack damage. It's predecessor, Flareon is pretty much the same way. With this said though, there is a fine balance of knowing when and what to discard in the deck and placing energy on to your Pokémon since it'll be scarce as well as knowing what exactly is in your prizes.
Click to expand...
Thing I just realized only now does expanded vespiquen use Leafeon PLF?
 
Empoleon_master said:
That seems so obvious now I feel very stupid. Also wouldn't leafeon give me an auto win to toad and stuff like keldeo blastoise or something?
Click to expand...

Leafeon wouldn't give you an auto win against Siemitoad because usually they don't play a DCE until they're ready to lock you out. Two DCE would be max but you have to realize too that you won't OHKO toad if you're item locked. In theory, yes you auto win, but in actual gameplay it's very hard to pull off an easy win against Toad with Leafeon. Another reason is true, toad is doing 30 damage, but combined with Laser Bank, now you're being dealt 60 damage, a two turn kill which could mean a whole lot of problems. Another factor is Bats can quickly rack up damage before you can do anything too. Even a pure Flareon deck, it's rare to see more than 3 Leafeon in a deck. As for mine, I ran Raichu, Leafeon, and Flareon.

Here's a quick skeleton of just the Pokémon list:

Pokémon - 21
Eevee (Furious Fist) - 4
Flareon - 4
Leafeon - 3
Pikachu -4
Raichu - 3
Jirachi Ex- 2
Kyurem (NBV/LDT) - 1

Most people wouldn't probably run Kyurem in their build, but I did because of Frozen City and I ran basic leaf and fire energy to search out Leafeon and Flareon so outrage ran well for me. I've seen some people run fighting energy with Landorus in Flareon decks too.

Now keep in mind that Vespiquen is in some ways better than Flareon, but also loses other things. One thing is Vespiquen gain free retreat compared to Flareon which is a big bonus despite me using Raichu. You can manipulate Giant Plant Forest for more than just Vespiquen if you choose to go that route with adding more grass types like Vileplume (goes against the build of the deck but hey). Another big bonus is the manipulation of Flareon, Jolteon, and Vaporeon for type damage bonuses. Lastly, it can be leveled ball which is awesome.

Now for the downfall. True it's only a 10 HP difference, but 10 HP can still go a long way in terms of surviving attacks, even small ones. If set up right, Eevee was just as easy to one turn evolve as Vespiquen and people may debate this. I ran Flareon as my big deck until it basically rotated out and FF Eevee made it really easy to turn one Flareon when combined with Battle Compressor, Ultra Ball, Prof. Juniper/Sycamore, and now Acro Bike. If done right, you could basically clear your deck out of what you don't need and just keep the important cards and be ready to go by just waiting to attack with Flareon for a OHKO. I'm not debating that GPF isn't as good, it's an amazing (potentially over powering) card that is vital to Vespiquen, I'm just showing the differences.

Flareon in my opinion will have more advantages against Pokémon than Vespiquen so they provide great synergy in expanded.

I personally feel like that Vespiquen is much more easier to play than Flareon. the best advice I can give you is build a deck and play it. It is definitely one of those decks that will take time and practice to fully grasp the timing of it.
 
SilverSilent said:
Leafeon wouldn't give you an auto win against Siemitoad because usually they don't play a DCE until they're ready to lock you out. Two DCE would be max but you have to realize too that you won't OHKO toad if you're item locked. In theory, yes you auto win, but in actual gameplay it's very hard to pull off an easy win against Toad with Leafeon. Another reason is true, toad is doing 30 damage, but combined with Laser Bank, now you're being dealt 60 damage, a two turn kill which could mean a whole lot of problems. Another factor is Bats can quickly rack up damage before you can do anything too. Even a pure Flareon deck, it's rare to see more than 3 Leafeon in a deck. As for mine, I ran Raichu, Leafeon, and Flareon.

Here's a quick skeleton of just the Pokémon list:

Pokémon - 21
Eevee (Furious Fist) - 4
Flareon - 4
Leafeon - 3
Pikachu -4
Raichu - 3
Jirachi Ex- 2
Kyurem (NBV/LDT) - 1

Most people wouldn't probably run Kyurem in their build, but I did because of Frozen City and I ran basic leaf and fire energy to search out Leafeon and Flareon so outrage ran well for me. I've seen some people run fighting energy with Landorus in Flareon decks too.

Now keep in mind that Vespiquen is in some ways better than Flareon, but also loses other things. One thing is Vespiquen gain free retreat compared to Flareon which is a big bonus despite me using Raichu. You can manipulate Giant Plant Forest for more than just Vespiquen if you choose to go that route with adding more grass types like Vileplume (goes against the build of the deck but hey). Another big bonus is the manipulation of Flareon, Jolteon, and Vaporeon for type damage bonuses. Lastly, it can be leveled ball which is awesome.

Now for the downfall. True it's only a 10 HP difference, but 10 HP can still go a long way in terms of surviving attacks, even small ones. If set up right, Eevee was just as easy to one turn evolve as Vespiquen and people may debate this. I ran Flareon as my big deck until it basically rotated out and FF Eevee made it really easy to turn one Flareon when combined with Battle Compressor, Ultra Ball, Prof. Juniper/Sycamore, and now Acro Bike. If done right, you could basically clear your deck out of what you don't need and just keep the important cards and be ready to go by just waiting to attack with Flareon for a OHKO. I'm not debating that GPF isn't as good, it's an amazing (potentially over powering) card that is vital to Vespiquen, I'm just showing the differences.

I personally feel like that Vespiquen is much more easier to play than Flareon. the best advice I can give you is build a deck and play it. It is definitely one of those decks that will take time and practice to fully grasp the timing of it.
Click to expand...
I have a problem, I don't have any jirachi, only shaymin. If you want to join me on IRC so we can talk about this more.
 
Empoleon_master said:
I have a problem, I don't have any jirachi, only shaymin. If you want to join me on IRC so we can talk about this more.
Click to expand...

Shaymin would work better actually, Stellar Guidance is nice for supporter drought. Shaymin-Ex is better because one, it only uses a DCE and Sky Return helps you avoid having to lose two prizes so early on it's nice, it does 30 damage so it kind of gives you a little buffer early on, lastly it's nice to be able to draw six if you used your support for the turn. Jirachi has less HP than Shaymin as well, only having 90 to a 130 for Shaymin. The advantage to Jirachi is of course a support card if you need it and seeing in to your deck to determine what's prized early on. You could always try a 1-1 line if you think both are handy in expanded.

Unfortunately I can't get on IRC at the moment for a few more hours. I'd be more than happy to help you later on with a deck though.
 
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