Gothitelle techs

Captain Oats

I'm worse than you at TCG.
Member
1-3 Teddiursa CoL as a possible starter, possibly just stall out a bit and and keep the trainer lock up somewhat before you can get a Gothitelle up and running.

1-1 or 2-2 Slowking HGSS/CoL to give your opponent dead draws once you get Gothitelle set up.
If Slowking ends up working out and being worth it possibly go 2-1 and add 1 Slowbro HGSS as a possible Donphan counter. Same attack as Gothitelle, however it takes 3 energy on a slowbro compared to 6 on a Gothitelle and Slowbro might be able to get up and running faster than a Gothitelle or at least be closer to donphan's speed swarming. Ofc use Slowpoke UD over the hgss one.

Most likely wasted space, but would any of these be worth considering in this deck? The starter doesn't really matter since they can't get catchered up and this deck doesn't need a ton of free bench space anyways so the starter can sit on the bench for a while if necessary.

*Edit* I plan on using Jirachi/Shaymin as the energy engine over Jirachi/Mismagius. Shaymin is less bulky, only takes up 1 space on the bench, is easier to use and all around better imo. If you can argue Mismagius then feel free.
 
Thanks for linking to the cards, it made looking for them a LOT easier!! Teddiursa has an ok attack, however with the new victini, you can reflip coins for attacks. So if you didn't get heads that first time, you can always try again. It's an interesting starter, maybe add in ursaring prime for a backup attacker.
 
I've been eyeballing Gothitelle as a decent deck for awhile now, and for possible techs I'd also like to mention the possibilities of a Kingdra line to bulk up your damage output while keeping the lock on. Grumpig and Spoink both work with Gothitelle as Spoink can put them to sleep and then retreat to trainer lock them into the active position, while Grumpig can block Powers if it is needed, and Bench Manipulation can do some serious damage. Jirachi and Shaymin can be used to keep the Gothitelle swarming and keep enough Psychic energy attached to do some decent damage. The new Whimisicott with U-Turn as it's attack can go well with the deck possibly, although you'd need a Dodrio to make the combo work correctly. Magnezone can add the draw power that the deck may need, as well as make for a decent backup attacker once you decide to break the lock. As you have already mentioned Slowking works well too, although I like to toss a couple of Weavile into the mix too as that can really make the lock unbearable. The deck has a bunch of options, but it isn't the most powerful or consistent locking deck around, so I don't know if it will be all that great. Reuniclus and the Dragons are another possiblity for the deck too now that we have Max Potion.
 
I don't even like Gothitelle. Yeah, the Trainer lock is nice, but it is going to have to be your active, and that means you are going to need 3 Psychic Energy attached to it to do any real significant damage. Plus it has weakness to Mew, which can already function under Trainer lock, so it has an awful match up against Mewbox, which is going to get more popular with the release of Evolite. The two retreat does it no favors, because they are going to have to get out a Dodrio in a deck where you are playing on having a Cursegar like switching attacker. When it is stuck up there in your active, your opponent can rip apart your bench with things like Yanmega. I like the idea of Teddiursa starts though, could really slow your opponent down.
None of what I just said is true. I am just trying to make people over look this card because I hate Gothitelle as a Pokemon, and hate playing under Trainer Lock even more. I hope this card never gets played, so I'm going to try my darnedest to get people to think it is bad. I REFUSE TO EVER PLAY THIS CARD, and I will lose whenever I play against it. It is too easy to make good, and is all and all cheap. I hate every version of Trainer lock with a passion they ruin formats, and don't allow the game to be played in the way the creators intend, but that is just going to be me and #EFEFEF's little secret, ~ Vulpix Yolk
You do not #efefef doesn't work on this layout, right? ~Gliscor
 
A small 1-0-1 Kingdra line is an interesting idea, but the 10 extra damage isn't really that much of an issue in most cases. Most of the meta has an odd health (110, 130, 150) which Gothitelle is hitting on it's own without Kingdra. Only donphan (which there isn't much of in my area) has an even health (unless I'm not remembering somebody), and even then the Kingdra would just be used as an attacker against him for the x2 damage. Possibly better than the slowbro counter I mentioned in the OP, but I guess that would just take testing to decide.

Grumpig isn't that great imo, because #1, you are breaking the lock and #2 the damage output is flippy and not many people use poke-powers in the meta besides magnezone and typhlosion, but even then reshiram could take out a grumpig easy and magnezone's draw power down for one turn wouldn't cripple a deck that has been using it all game. Really though, breaking the lock is actually better for them because they can just spam all their trainers in one turn and could catcher up something that could in return cripple you. Spoink could be decent, but not worth the spots w/o an evolution and personally I don't see Grumpig even being as useful as Spoink.

Obviously I was going to use the Jirachi/shaymin engine, just forgot to mention it in the OP. It is a flippy engine and not the most reliable, but it can get the job done for sure. Not enough to keep Gothitelle "swarming" as you put it, imho at least, but good enough to refuel a new Gothitelle if 1 goes down or get 1 powered up. The other option would be Jirachi/Mismagius, but I feel shaymin is much easier to use and more consistent than benching 2-3 Mismagius' just for the power.

Whimisicott doesn't make much sense to me. It would require a tech of at least 2 grass or rainbow energies, neither of which are good in this deck, and the return is not worth it. And to make whimsicott the main attacker makes the deck horrible imo.

Magnezone would be a good back up attacker/draw engine with all the energy floating around on your field, for sure, but it feels bulky. Even a 2-1-2 line would be too much and, again, would require lightning or rainbow energy to function. And you are already nuking people with Gothitelle if you set it up properly so the idea of 150 a turn with Magnezone isn't really necessary. Personally, I don't see it being worth it but testing may prove it being successful.

I thought about Weavile, but even with a 2-2 line you will still want to be seekering them to reuse them and the seekers would be better used on your Jirachi/shaymin engine to power something up. Maybe a 1-1 tech used in critical moments (like early game) but I can't see much of a use if you can only use it once or twice really.

Reuniclus seems too frail for this deck with only 90hp, even though it can't get catchered up, but if it proves it can survive then the dragons may be useful techs just to hit some weaknesses.

Also, the plan with Gothitelle (afaik) would be to abuse catcher yourself and knock out bench techs while crippling your opponents build and whittling away at their attacker's health, which you can also ohko fairly easily if you can set up fast. By itself Gothitelle can majorly screw with your opponent but it does seem like it needs something else to give it a better chance/edge besides simply locking up your opponent. With all this being said, I have very little hands-on experience with any lock decks so somebody with experience might be able to shed some light on this.
 
These are probably the best tech's for Gothitelle IMO:

1-jirachi.jpg


5-mismagius.jpg


Just use Stardust Song with Jirachi to get {P} back from your Discard Pile, transfer
them over to your Active Gothitelle with Mismagius using Magical Trans and attach a Psychic for turn. Now you can have Gothitelle do Madkinesis for 60 damage.

Problem is that you need Psychic energies in the Discard Pile for this combo to work, so you could run Sage's Training to have them discarded. Seems solid I suppose but it's still 3 50% chances on pulling it off.
 
Jirachi/Shaymin UL > Jirachi/Mismagius imo. Shaymin is just easier to use beacuse it's a basic, can be spammed and reused via seeker, can move infinite energies at once, and only takes 1 space on the bench. Mismagius is a stage 1 so it takes at least 2 turns to use him, which means you have to have misdreavus on the bench beforehand, can be used every turn, but it can only move 1 energy at a time and to be effective will require you using 2 or 3 on your bench, taking up multiple bench spaces. The only real plus to Mismagius is that you can tech in the UD one (I think) for poltergeist as a possible 2nd attacker in a 3-2/1 CoL/UD line.
 
Teddiursa is pretty icky, just a worse Gastly imo. Unlike a real lock deck, your opponent WILL play some trainers during the matchup sooner or later. You can't keep casting spare Gothitelles if they're also your main attacker.
We need Dodrio + a strong guy that switches himself and does some damage for this to become any good. As long as Yanmega is flying around everywhere, we can't really throw down Dodrio and hope it'll stick.

@Vulpix Yolk
Just a guess, but I think MewBox will be pretty dead this and/or next format. Eviolite is cool but you're still getting KOed by Donkphans if you don't have it soon enough. Not to mention Zek/Resh have quite an easy time with Mew.
Also
I see what u did thar
 
Captoats said:
A small 1-0-1 Kingdra line is an interesting idea, but the 10 extra damage isn't really that much of an issue in most cases. Most of the meta has an odd health (110, 130, 150) which Gothitelle is hitting on it's own without Kingdra. Only donphan (which there isn't much of in my area) has an even health (unless I'm not remembering somebody), and even then the Kingdra would just be used as an attacker against him for the x2 damage. Possibly better than the slowbro counter I mentioned in the OP, but I guess that would just take testing to decide.
I've been working with a 2-1-2 it adds a decent amount of pop to a Gothitelle, especially if you are going to play it with DCE for speed, in which case you do miss out on some key KO's. A DCE and a Psychic hits for 50, which puts most things in range for a devolving KO from Jirachi, and a benched Kingdra or two can make it hit that magic 60 or 70. I play the deck so that it abuses Catcher and then hits big with Jirachi later in the game, with Gothitelle taking out babies and Manaphys and other weaker Pokemon along the way.

Grumpig isn't that great imo, because #1, you are breaking the lock and #2 the damage output is flippy and not many people use poke-powers in the meta besides magnezone and typhlosion, but even then reshiram could take out a grumpig easy and magnezone's draw power down for one turn wouldn't cripple a deck that has been using it all game. Really though, breaking the lock is actually better for them because they can just spam all their trainers in one turn and could catcher up something that could in return cripple you. Spoink could be decent, but not worth the spots w/o an evolution and personally I don't see Grumpig even being as useful as Spoink.
For a 1-1 tech these two couldn't really hurt. I mean Spoink is a pretty cool card that gives you a 50% chance of locking them up at a key point in the game, which makes it worth the extra slot, and if you bring Grumpig along you can use it to attempt to swing for some real damage, Bench Manipulation may be flippy but with a full bench you can expect to hit 80-120 with it, which is decent for the deck, but you can also hope for more, and it isn't always a terrible idea to have a card that can come through in a pinch for you.

Obviously I was going to use the Jirachi/shaymin engine, just forgot to mention it in the OP. It is a flippy engine and not the most reliable, but it can get the job done for sure. Not enough to keep Gothitelle "swarming" as you put it, imho at least, but good enough to refuel a new Gothitelle if 1 goes down or get 1 powered up. The other option would be Jirachi/Mismagius, but I feel shaymin is much easier to use and more consistent than benching 2-3 Mismagius' just for the power.
If you drop the Shaymin to move the energy before the Gothitelle gets KO'd then it isn't impossible to keep it swarming. I don't actually like the idea of Jirachi and Shaymin being used to power this guy up at the start of the game, but later in the game these two make for a decent addition. But relying on 3 coin flips and two basics just to get some early energy in play seems to be too risky, I'd rather get a nice trainer lock and swing for my 50 with a DCE.

Whimisicott doesn't make much sense to me. It would require a tech of at least 2 grass or rainbow energies, neither of which are good in this deck, and the return is not worth it. And to make whimsicott the main attacker makes the deck horrible imo.
Whimsicott is garbage, but again an option if you want to play a rogue deck. It's the only thing we have that can boomerang, so it is worth a mention in a thread about techs for Gothitelle.

Magnezone would be a good back up attacker/draw engine with all the energy floating around on your field, for sure, but it feels bulky. Even a 2-1-2 line would be too much and, again, would require lightning or rainbow energy to function. And you are already nuking people with Gothitelle if you set it up properly so the idea of 150 a turn with Magnezone isn't really necessary. Personally, I don't see it being worth it but testing may prove it being successful.
If you don't play Kingdra I'd say play Magnezone, Gothitelle isn't a huge damage dealer, and with a couple of Jirachi and a Rainbow Energy or two Magnezone becomes a nice bulky way to effectively take down the Dragons, who are going to be a huge problem for a Gothitelle deck.

I thought about Weavile, but even with a 2-2 line you will still want to be seekering them to reuse them and the seekers would be better used on your Jirachi/shaymin engine to power something up. Maybe a 1-1 tech used in critical moments (like early game) but I can't see much of a use if you can only use it once or twice really.
If you are going for a Slowking and attempt a serious lock down, then a couple of Weavile to pick off their draw support is fairly important, plus having a couple more Pokemon with free retreat in a deck like this could be rather important.

Reuniclus seems too frail for this deck with only 90hp, even though it can't get catchered up, but if it proves it can survive then the dragons may be useful techs just to hit some weaknesses.
Well the #2 deck at worlds applied a similar strategy of locking trainers and then having Reuniclus moving the damage counters about for simple healing and better Outrages. This deck streamlines that strategy a bit, allows you to use Catcher, and the active has just as much HP as the dragons.

Also, the plan with Gothitelle (afaik) would be to abuse catcher yourself and knock out bench techs while crippling your opponents build and whittling away at their attacker's health, which you can also ohko fairly easily if you can set up fast. By itself Gothitelle can majorly screw with your opponent but it does seem like it needs something else to give it a better chance/edge besides simply locking up your opponent. With all this being said, I have very little hands-on experience with any lock decks so somebody with experience might be able to shed some light on this.
 
OK, about Gothitelle. Basically the whole deal with it is going to be TankLock, with Gothitelle tanking in the front and locking out trainers.

For the lock part, you would enjoy having support from Slowking HS to mess up draws, Weaville UD to discard cards, Mr Mime CL to check their hands, and such. Supporters such as Trickery and Judge are key to the deck, once N is released it may also work.

For the tank part, you can freely use Serperior lines as Trainer Lock prevents Serperior from being catchered. Serperior also grants the awesome ability to couple abilities and heal more per turn, so a 2-2-2 Serperior line heals a TON. Also, with enough Mismagius and Jirachi, Max Potion is also viable.

For versatility, options include Metagross UL, Slowbro HS, Espeon UD, and other great Psychic types out there. Also, Poison might play a role but not quite sure how to get it out.
 
Running a 2-2-2 Serperior line makes the decklist seem really heavy on pokemon. Ideally, I would like to run a 4-3-4 Gothitelle Line, but I'm starting to think that isn't viable with all the techs you would need to add or else it would be too cluttered with pokemon. A sample skeleton of what I'm thinking is looking something like this:
3-2-3 Gothitelle
2-1-2 Serperior/Reuniclus
2-2 Slowking CoL
1-1 Weavile
2 Jirachi CoL
3 Shaymin UL
1 Teddiursa CoL
Total: 25

about 12-14 psychic energies, maxed seekers, 3-4 SSUs, 4 junkarms, 3 candies and the staples.

Seems like the lines are too inconsistent. If anything, I'm looking to drop the Serperior/Reuniclus line since it takes up so much space (both bench and deck space) and bulk up the starter line a little bit. Maybe go 1 Manaphy, 2 Teddiursa instead? Manaphy over cleffa for this deck since discarding for the retreat helps get energies in the discard and it's not susceptible to the Tyrogue donk.
*edit* forgot to add the sages and other discarding T/S's, but they are necessary to get the energy in the discard for jirachi. And 2-4 catchers, as well, to drag up and knock out some weaker bench techs for easier prizes.
 
If Serperior gets too clunky, just try Max Potions for healing. Just run SOMETHING so Gothitelle doesn't freaking die too fast. Less shaymin, you could just ditch the Teddiursa if you're only running 1.
 
If anything I would only drop 1 shaymin and Teddiursa is there because just about none of the basics are ok starters except maybe the slowpoke, and he can also be a flippy stall mid game if you can't toss out another Gothitelle powered up yet. Max potion seems like a much more reliable heal than serperior because it can be reused with JA, won't take up bench space and can be more powerful than Serperior.
 
blaZofgold said:
If Serperior gets too clunky, just try Max Potions for healing. Just run SOMETHING so Gothitelle doesn't freaking die too fast. Less shaymin, you could just ditch the Teddiursa if you're only running 1.

You're better off going with Reuniclus over Serperior, with Damage Swap it can remove damage counters alot faster than Serperior's Royal Heal and makes Gothitelle almost an indestructible wall especially with Max Potion. Are you really going to be attacking at all with Gothitelle unless they hit you with their Mew Prime with a boosted Mass Attack with Jumpluff in the Lost Zone?

Sure Gothitelle/Reuniclus is a popular deck in Japan right now, but how does it win games other than stalling out unless you're running Mew Prime and Gengar Prime's for Lost World? That's really the best way I see this deck working and the N Supporter from Red Collection would definitely give you massive hand advantage. You never draw prizes while they have less thus leading to low hand size on their end.

I honestly don't see the point with Teddiursa CoL, sure it Trainer Locks but it's a 50% chance and it can get donked early game. That and Donphan says hi, really Mew Prime and Gengar with Lost World I would prefer with this deck over using Slowking for Second Sight and Shaymin/Jirachi cause that saves you a whole lot of tech's just to establish your wincon with Lost World but If you want to take the hard way that's fine too.
 
Reuniclus will get destroyed early on if you don't get setup fast enough. Why 90 HP, Pokemon?

Umm, Gothitelle's attack isn't bad. Of course, if they get something like a Donphan stuck active, then that would be fine not attacking. But otherwise, sure go and kick their butts. Rocky Helmet would be cool too.
 
Card Slinger J said:
You're better off going with Reuniclus over Serperior, with Damage Swap it can remove damage counters alot faster than Serperior's Royal Heal and makes Gothitelle almost an indestructible wall especially with Max Potion. Are you really going to be attacking at all with Gothitelle unless they hit you with their Mew Prime with a boosted Mass Attack with Jumpluff in the Lost Zone?

Sure Gothitelle/Reuniclus is a popular deck in Japan right now, but how does it win games other than stalling out unless you're running Mew Prime and Gengar Prime's for Lost World? That's really the best way I see this deck working and the N Supporter from Red Collection would definitely give you massive hand advantage. You never draw prizes while they have less thus leading to low hand size on their end.

I honestly don't see the point with Teddiursa CoL, sure it Trainer Locks but it's a 50% chance and it can get donked early game. That and Donphan says hi, really Mew Prime and Gengar with Lost World I would prefer with this deck over using Slowking for Second Sight and Shaymin/Jirachi cause that saves you a whole lot of tech's just to establish your wincon with Lost World but If you want to take the hard way that's fine too.

Actually Gothitelle is the main attacker of this deck, and it wins games by trainer locking and nuking down their techs with catcher crippling it even further, and it can also ohko most main attackers pretty easily, because believe it or not, it isn't hard to get 5 energies on a Gothitelle, I was doing it with slowbro last season and didn't have any sort of energy acceleration.

It is in no way a lostzone deck so I don't see how mew and gengar are viable in here, at all. Teddiursa is just used to keep the lock up early game and can be a decent stall. Like I said, it was just a possible tech so criticism is welcome, but calling it susceptible to donk? Every starter in the game is susceptible to donk, even manaphy, regardless of the fighting weakness. You could always flip heads on Cleffa or Tyrogue, or your manaphy could be forced to stay in the active.
 
How is Gothitelle a solid attacker though? It's damage output is very bad compared to other Pokemon that can hit for greater damage and you would need to get 2 heads from Stardust Song with Jirachi to transfer over to Gothitelle with Shaymin's Celebration Wind and even then you're still only doing 60 damage (120 against a Pokemon with x2 {P} Weakness) at best without a DCE.

I can see Gothitelle donking most Basic Pokemon in the format that's not Legendary like Reshiram and Zekrom but against Stage 1 and Stage 2 Pokemon it's going to have difficulty getting through. That's why you use Time Hollow with Jirachi to enable Gothitelle to donk for prizes and even though it takes up a couple turns it could be very solid. Maybe run a Dodrio tech to give all your Pokemon free retreat and since they can't Catcher your Dodrio thanks to Magic Room, more power to ya.

Serperior is an amazing tech with Gothitelle cause Royal Heal makes it an indestructible wall yet the setup is slow due to the Rare Candy errata since you can't Candy on T1 anymore. Only reason why Serperior is favored as a tech over Reuniclus is because it has higher HP and If they are running Yanmega Prime to use Linear Attack and bench snipe Serperior it can still take a few hits and live.
 
That's true, but Serperior can't nearly heal as much, so against something like them Dragons Serperior is severly disabled.

Gothitelle's attack isn't bad, its good enough to get the job done. 3 for 90, 4 for 110, and 5 for 130 is ok-ish. Once you have 5 energy, you win. Rocky helmet should also be used to help Gothitelle.
 
Neither of the healers work very well in this deck imo. Serperior only heals 20hp per set of turns from your Gothitelle and most likely things are going to get KO'd if they are sniped so it won't be too effective healing them. Reuniclus has nowhere to move the damage counters since your bench will most likely be low hp basics or a Gothitelle, which you won't want weakened when you send it to the active:
Reuniclus - Jirachi - Shaymin - gothitelle/other tech - gothitelle/other tech

The only way these could be useful imo is if they were played together to heal 120 a turn, but it would be too cumbersome as far as deck space and bench space goes. The only thing I could see useful about this tech is if you ran Reuniclus simply to KO your own pokemon to use twins/black belt. Twins is obvious, and BB allows you to KO resh/zeck with only having 3 energy on your Gothitelle. Rocky helmet would be ideal for this deck, but it isn't out yet so that isn't really useful to talk about right now.

And Gothitelle won't have problems KOing most of the meta on it's own anyways. It has the capability to be a forceful nuke, but it just has to have the right build, and the fact that it can set up an effective lock at the same time as nuking/wiping out their techs makes it even better.
 
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