Standard Greninja Post Rotation 2018 Season

[MoFoTY86]

Hello and good afternoon (morning, evening, whatever) fellow Poke beachers. There was worry about Greninja not gonna see play. Well it is gonna be hard with things being rotated after September and was trying to think of a new deck to work around. So let me indulge you on my opinion of a deck. Inputs, suggestions and discussions are welcome.

This is the deck Sam Chen won at NAIC Senior division. Some Greninja decks are different but some share the same trainers.

Pokémon - 19
* 1 Stardust Jirachi
* 3 Greninja BREAK BKP 41
* 4 Froakie BKP 38
* 4 Frogadier BKP 39
* 4 Greninja BKP 40
* 2 Staryu BKT 29
* 1 Starmie EVO 31

##Trainer Cards - 31
* 1 Ace Trainer AOR 69
* 1 Lysandre AOR 78
* 3 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
* 4 N DEX 96
* 4 Professor Sycamore BKP 107
* 2 Teammates PRC 141
* 2 Choice Band GRI 121
* 3 Ultra Ball ROS 93
* 2 Field Blower GRI 125
* 4 Dive Ball PRC 125
* 3 VS Seeker PHF 109
* 2 Level Ball NXD 89

##Energy - 10
* 7 Water Energy GEN 77
* 3 Splash Energy BKP 113

On this list, Dive Ball, Ace Trainer, Lysandre, Teammates, Level Ball, VS Seeker are being rotated. Dive ball is the worst of this list. Yes Ultra Balls are nice but you usually discard Supporters to get back with VS Seeker, which is being rotated as well. This hurts. So Lele could be a grab here and maybe Random Receiver.

So we have 16 slots to fill in due to the rotation. What do we do? Well maybe a Lele to get the supporter you need to do what you must. Possibly Puzzle of Time to get the supporters you want back, but you are vulnerable against Garbodor. So here is the new list I put together.

Pokémon - 21
* 1 Promo Jirachi
* 3 Greninja BREAK BKP 41
* 4 Froakie BKP 38
* 4 Frogadier BKP 39
* 4 Greninja BKP 40
* 2 Staryu BKT 29
* 1 Starmie EVO 31
* 1 Remoraid BKT
* 1 Octillery BKT

##Trainer Cards - 29
* 3 Random Receiver
* 2 Guzma
* 3 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
* 4 N DEX 96
* 4 Professor Sycamore BKP 107
* 2 Mallow
* 2 Choice Band GRI 121
* 3 Ultra Ball ROS 93
* 3 Field Blower GRI 125
* 2 Timer Ball SUM
* 1 Wally

##Energy - 10

* 7 Water Energy GEN 77
* 3 Splash Energy BKP 113

Again, I want to remind everyone I am not the best person making decks, but would like to have a discussion and get some brains circulating. Alolan Vulpix was a thought to free search as an attack to get whatever 2 pokemon you want. Also Talonflame was also thought of for the same reason. Didn't want to make the Pokémon line up too clunky. On the fence about Timer ball and whether if it is the best to use or use Great ball instead. Pokeball could be useful but you are relying on a Heads on a coin flip. Same with Timer Ball. Mallow for that simple get what you need and then Abyssal Hand to get the two cards. What do you think Greninja should use or not use?

 

[Trainer Josh]

I belive you have a lot of the right cards to make a competitive Greninja deck, but some of your quantities are off. Simply my opinion on how you need to change your deck in order to make it more competitive:

-1 Promo Jirachi: From what I have been told Jirachi is useful early game to help buy time using its move stardust. Unfortunately in order to protect itself from attacks next turn, the other Pokémon has to have a special energy attached which doesn't strike me as a reliable bet. Regardless, even if it does work this seems like an easy Pokémon to pick off for a prize card at 60 HP, which Greninja decks have enough of already.
+1 Greninja BREAK: With the addition of Guzma coming soon, Greninja decks will finally be capable of efficiently using three Giant Water Shuriken in one round! Plus this will also make it easier to combo two Giant Water Shuriken at any given time.
-1 Froakie: Because of Frogadiers attack allowing you to put 3 Frogadier on the bench in one round without Froakie, you will find you won't need as many Froakie's. Especially with cards like Rescue Stretcher to bring him back if necessary, and almost all competitive decks with succes I have seen only run 3.
-1 Staryu: I simply wouldn't run more Staryu than Starmie, and if you are worried about him getting knocked out early, just use Rescue Stretcher. Now on the point of him getting prized, I feel like that's a risk you take running any card.
-1 Remoraid: I wouldn't run the octillery line period.
-1 Octillery- The reason you shouldn't run Octillery and Starmie is because that starts taking up too much space on your bench, which is crucial for Greninja's play style. Also Garbodor deck's ability locks will screw you over if you rely on both Pokémon's abilities. Personally I think Starmie is better because energy acceleration from the discard pile is vital to success with Greninja, as opposed to draw support with Octillery.
-2 Random Reciver: My view on this card is has little purpose in a Greninja deck in particular, aside from the fact that it's a good card. Because it's just a helpful, good card, I can understand you running one or two.
-2 Mallow: Without the Octillery line or another efficient way, I just don't see the justification for this card in a Greninja deck. That being said I guess if it works for you in practice, I can maybe see you running one.
+1 Choice Band: This is easily one of the greatest additions for Greninja from Guardians Rising. Not only does it counter the new meta of GX's and the occasional EX, but the card doesn't hurt Greninja decks at all because they don't run either GX or EX! It's simply too good a card to pass up on for the next rotation!
+1 Ultra Ball: Because all water decks are going to take a huge hit in the form of Dive Ball being rotated out, you are gonna need all the search cards you can get. Ultra Ball is gonna become a new staple for water decks next rotation.
-1 Field Blower: Even though this card was a blessing from Pokémon allowing players to counter many top decks, I just don't think you need three. All in all I can understand you running three, but personally I don't see you using it three times effectively in any match.
-1 Wally: While yes this is a better version of Evosoda, it is no way worth using a supporter. If anything maybe throw in one Evosoda if you feel like you need more search power, but Wally isn't the answer.
+2 Max Potion: Because of how few energies Greninja need to attack, having to discard them all comes at practically no cost. Greninja decks already need energies in the discard pile for Starmie to use its ability, so why not fully heal your Pokémon as well.
+2 Rare Candy: Greninja is a stage 2 Pokémon so no matter what the deck is, at least run one Rare Candy. I have found two works best, but that's up to you to decide.
1 Super Rod: Incredibly useful card for putting important cards back into your deck, plus it's an item. That being said it's not vital to the deck so it would make sense if you didn't feel the need to run it.
+1 Aqua Patch: I'm still kinda playing around with this card and how it helps Greninja decks, so your call really. Even though I'm not gonna lie it's far more useful in some other water decks, not a bad idea to run one just in case.
+2 Brooklet Hill/Mount Lanakila: I'm kinda on the fence about these two stadium cards because, they both have their purposes but they also both have weaknesses in Greninja decks. That being said I would only pick one and just run two of it, because double stadium decks can get messy.
+1 Fisherman: I know I got picky about supporters, but I included this one because it fits this deck and its purpose too well to pass up. It also allows for a second option just in case Staryu gets prized and you can't accelerate energy.

I'm sorry for the wall of text and changing your deck up so much, but just wanted to lay out all my thoughts on the topic. Best of luck to you with your Greninja deck, and I hope this helps you out!

 

[PlatinumDude]

I belive you have a lot of the right cards to make a competitive Greninja deck, but some of your quantities are off. Simply my opinion on how you need to change your deck in order to make it more competitive:

-1 Promo Jirachi: I honestly have no idea what the purpose of this card is with Greninja, maybe I have been looking at the wrong card.
+1 Greninja BREAK: With the addition of Guzma coming soon, Greninja decks will finally be capable of efficiently using three Giant Water Shuriken in one round! Plus this will also make it easier to combo two Giant Water Shuriken at any given time.
-1 Froakie: Because of Frogadiers attack allowing you to put 3 Frogadier on the bench in one round without Froakie, you will find you won't need as many Froakie's. Especially with cards like Rescue Stretcher to bring him back if necessary, and almost all competitive decks with succes I have seen only run 3.
-1 Staryu: I simply wouldn't run more Staryu than Starmie, and if you are worried about him getting knocked out early, just use Rescue Stretcher. Now on the point of him getting prized, I feel like that's a risk you take running any card.
-1 Remoraid: I wouldn't run the octillery line period.
-1 Octillery- The reason you shouldn't run Octillery and Starmie is because that starts taking up too much space on your bench, which is crucial for Greninja's play style. Also Garbodor deck's ability locks will screw you over if you rely on both Pokémon's abilities. Personally I think Starmie is better because energy acceleration from the discard pile is vital to success with Greninja, as opposed to draw support with Octillery.
-2 Random Reciver: My view on this card is has little purpose in a Greninja deck in particular, aside from the fact that it's a good card. Because it's just a helpful, good card, I can understand you running one or two.
-2 Mallow: Without the Octillery line or another efficient way, I just don't see the justification for this card in a Greninja deck. That being said I guess if it works for you in practice, I can maybe see you running one.
+1 Choice Band: This is easily one of the greatest additions for Greninja from Guardians Rising. Not only does it counter the new meta of GX's and the occasional EX, but the card doesn't hurt Greninja decks at all because they don't run either GX or EX! It's simply too good a card to pass up on for the next rotation!
+1 Ultra Ball: Because all water decks are going to take a huge hit in the form of Dive Ball being rotated out, you are gonna need all the search cards you can get. Ultra Ball is gonna become a new staple for water decks next rotation.
-1 Field Blower: Even though this card was a blessing from Pokémon allowing players to counter many top decks, I just don't think you need three. All in all I can understand you running three, but personally I don't see you using it three times effectively in any match.
-1 Wally: While yes this is a better version of Evosoda, it is no way worth using a supporter. If anything maybe throw in one Evosoda if you feel like you need more search power, but Wally isn't the answer.
+2 Max Potion: Because of how few energies Greninja need to attack, having to discard them all comes at practically no cost. Greninja decks already need energies in the discard pile for Starmie to use its ability, so why not fully heal your Pokémon as well.
+2 Rare Candy: Greninja is a stage 2 Pokémon so no matter what the deck is, at least run one Rare Candy. I have found two works best, but that's up to you to decide.
1 Super Rod: Incredibly useful card for putting important cards back into your deck, plus it's an item. That being said it's not vital to the deck so it would make sense if you didn't feel the need to run it.
+1 Aqua Patch: I'm still kinda playing around with this card and how it helps Greninja decks, so your call really. Even though I'm not gonna lie it's far more useful in some other water decks, not a bad idea to run one just in case.
+2 Brooklet Hill/Mount Lanakila: I'm kinda on the fence about these two stadium cards because, they both have their purposes but they also both have weaknesses in Greninja decks. That being said I would only pick one and just run two of it, because double stadium decks can get messy.
+1 Fisherman: I know I got picky about supporters, but I included this one because it fits this deck and its purpose too well to pass up. It also allows for a second option just in case Staryu gets prized and you can't accelerate energy.

I'm sorry for the wall of text and changing your deck up so much, but just wanted to lay out all my thoughts on the topic. Best of luck to you with your Greninja deck, and I hope this helps you out!

Stardust Jirachi is helpful because it removes the Defending Pokemon's special energy and protects itself from incoming attacks on the next turn. This is useful to help buy you a bit more time to set up.

 

[theblackqueen]

I think for Pokémon Alolan Vulpix/Ninetales GX is a great partner for Greninja Break. A Vulpix is used somewhat similar to Talonflame and once you get A Ninetales you make your opponent hesitant to attack because of damage swap, which can help you while you work on getting Greninja set up on bench. then once youre ready you could Guzma out of A Ninetales hit the ability on Greninja, retreat to use other ability and attack. and once SHL comes out you could even add Shining Celebi to continue to use A Vulpix attack to search out evolutions while its A Nintales GX.

Alos highly recommend Aqua Patch it works great for recycling energy back into your hand.

Ability - Patch - Retreat - Ability - Attack

 

[Rindon]

In addition to @theblackqueen comment; ninetales can be useful for sniping off Garbotoxin if you can't manage to get field blower, and yes it's damage swap really makes other players cautious.

 

[Calcab]

Energy Retrieval is better than Aqua Patch for Greninja decks whenever.
Since Greninja decks only need 1 energy attachment, you can use Energy Retrieval, attach the energy you would naturally attach with Aqua Patch and get the plus of one more energy you can use for a Shuriken or save for the next round.
Anyway, pretty solid decklist, I agree with most of Trainer Josh suggestions, but I would run some Evosodas, only 4 Ultra Balls doesn't add the consistency Greninja needs and Vulpix makes you lose one turn that sometimes you can't lose (and risk you getting N'ed since N count for most decks will probably increase after rotation).