Gyarados' threats for the new format

PokeChamp

PokeChamp

Aspiring Trainer
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In Platinum: Arceus, we get a few new cards. In general, and in the new set, what are Gyarados' prime bad matchups? I have recently put together a list with the help of a friend, and I don't have that much experience with it. What should I look out for when playing it?

Also, would Expert Belt be a good play for Gyarados?
 
I think Expert Belt would be good with Gyarados. That makes a 150 HP stage 1 with 110 damage output for 0 energy. That's pretty epic. Also, since all good Gyarados decks run like 4 SSU, if Gyarados is near getting knocked out, you can just scoop it up.

Tangrowth might be a bad matchup for Gyarados. Especially the SF one, removing 1 in between turns, the Level X possibly removing 4 more, and -20 resistance.
 
Everyone keeps saying tangrowth will rule gyarados but, the truth is, gyarados is too fast for tangrowth. By the time the X comes out it will be KOed.
 
^yeah i don't think you will have to worry about Tangrowth that much either. He requires too much to play, and he is quite slow, and he (i think) will actually not be played that much, becouse of things like Gengar X and BlazeRay (<if it sees any play).
 
Spiritomb AoA might be a threat to Gyarados as it can block vital trainers like Pokemon rescue and Night Maintenance. However i doubt that will happen much as Spiritomb isn't the kind of card people would play late game when recovery generally happens, it's still a threat though.

There isn't much else from the next set which pose as a great threat to Gyarados apart from the over hyped Tangrowth but it looks too slow and clunky to be any real threat and not to forget Luxray GL variants, but Gyarados has great recovery so it won't be a hard match-up. So i would say Gyarados is a safe play for the next format.
 
#1weavile said:
Everyone keeps saying tangrowth will rule gyarados but, the truth is, gyarados is too fast for tangrowth. By the time the X comes out it will be KOed.
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Not if it is the Stormfront growth. It only takes about 50 from Gyarados.

Sure it is then another attack and a pluspower away, but it can work around it.
 
PokeChamp said:
In Platinum: Arceus, we get a few new cards. In general, and in the new set, what are Gyarados' prime bad matchups? I have recently put together a list with the help of a friend, and I don't have that much experience with it. What should I look out for when playing it?

Also, would Expert Belt be a good play for Gyarados?
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In particular, Gengar hurts Gyarados very badly. How so?

Poltergeist will KO your Gyarados every turn, and you can't exactly empty your hand of trainers, as you need your Pokemon rescues and such. With the Level X he'll just get an HP boost.

Another bad matchup is Luxray GL lv X, especially if they're playing Lucario GL, although if you are playing expert belt, they will need 2 attacks to KO you(with a crobat drop) but when they get the KO, they get 2 prizes.
 
Darkartisan said:
In particular, Gengar hurts Gyarados very badly. How so?

Poltergeist will KO your Gyarados every turn, and you can't exactly empty your hand of trainers, as you need your Pokemon rescues and such. With the Level X he'll just get an HP boost.

Another bad matchup is Luxray GL lv X, especially if they're playing Lucario GL, although if you are playing expert belt, they will need 2 attacks to KO you(with a crobat drop) but when they get the KO, they get 2 prizes.
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You need like 4-5 T/S/S in your hand for the Poltergeist to ko every turn.

And you need that many in your hand every turn. I'd be more worried about Fainting Spells.
 
Gengar can Shadow Room your techs/drawpower. One Unown G might not be enough. Plus Power/Crobat G+Poke Turn > Expert Belt IMO. Luxray will still be a problem.

dmaster out.
 
Darkartisan said:
In particular, Gengar hurts Gyarados very badly. How so?

Poltergeist will KO your Gyarados every turn, and you can't exactly empty your hand of trainers, as you need your Pokemon rescues and such. With the Level X he'll just get an HP boost.

Another bad matchup is Luxray GL lv X, especially if they're playing Lucario GL, although if you are playing expert belt, they will need 2 attacks to KO you(with a crobat drop) but when they get the KO, they get 2 prizes.
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Gengar doesn't really hurt Gyarados. 4-5 Trainers is a lot. Abusing Bebe's Search and just playing your hand out when you normally wouldn't makes it Poltergiest a small threat, especially because it needs 2 energy. Shadow Room can be annoying, but you're KOing Gengar every turn and Fainting Spell is the only threat. Variants without Nidoqueen can be avoided by hitting for 90 and dropping 2 crobats after. Variants with Nidoqueen will just end up being KO'd every turn and eventually run out of Gengars. A good Gyarados should be able to Crobat them enough for about three Gengars. It can be annoying but it's not really a bad matchup. My testing shows a very positive matchup with Gengar.

Luxray is also only a semi-threat. If they get it out T2 they'll probably win, but if not you'll setup and KO them every turn as they KO you every turn. However, Gyarados can recover a lot better than Luxray. So it really depends on how well both decks setup.

My testing and BRs show the main counters to be: TM TS-2, Mr. Mime, sometimes Flygon, sometimes Luxray. In the new set, I haven't tested yet so I can't really tell you, but I'd have to say boomerang Uxieruption/Gliscor to Spiritomb or Mr. Mime. I don't think Tangrowth will be played much and I wouldn't consider it a direct counter because they need to flip heads and are slower.
 
Luxray gives you no problems. You're sooooo much faster than them. Gnegar doesn't hurt you because Fainting Spell is not going to hurt. Your recovery is so great it's no problem. What the biggest problem is is Tangrowth and Salamance. Salamance's immense HP allows him to take 1 hit from Gyarados (possibly 2 depending if you run Queen/Healer) and 2 prizes if you knock them out. Tangrowth has resistance and, like, never dies lol.

Expert Belt will help Gyarados, but not to the point where it will remain tier 1. I'd say tier 2-3 depending on how well it does and how big the much-hyped Tangrowth.
 
Idk why Tangrowth is so hyped, you needs heads to heal 40. And if you get a couple tails it will die. And if you're using the SF Tangrowth, you're doing 60 for 4 and some snipe. It's pretty scary, huh? Lol.

But Salamance could be somewhat annoying. However, it's so slow, especially with a healer and they need to attach so many energy.
 
^Tangrowth is almost always assumed to be run with Sceptile. everything costing 4 is actually costing 2. The only threats are Dialga G and Blazekins, which are played, but not as much as Gengar/Flygon/Gyarados/Luxray with other techs.

Tangrowth is a solid Pokemon. But only time and players will tell if it has any place at tournaments. it's nearly impossible to tech for bad match-ups, unlike Flygon. So I doubt it will work that well.
 
I agree that Tangrowth has you. especially if they play Expert Belt+Tangrowth LA. 60 and remove 30 for 2. Plus, witht he X, you can possibly remove more. If you play nidoqueen or blissey, they're utterly screwed
 
gengar plays might get to where they can ohko a gyarados every turn but first they have to survive the very real threat of sableye donking their gastlies. i think gyarados presents the biggest threat to gengar because of this early game threat.
if water resistant pokemon do become a prevalent problem for gyarados the adjustment will be to add a 1-1 weavile sw tech. i mean the deck is generally running special darks already.
 
Celebi23 said:
Gengar doesn't really hurt Gyarados. 4-5 Trainers is a lot. Abusing Bebe's Search and just playing your hand out when you normally wouldn't makes it Poltergiest a small threat, especially because it needs 2 energy. Shadow Room can be annoying, but you're KOing Gengar every turn and Fainting Spell is the only threat. Variants without Nidoqueen can be avoided by hitting for 90 and dropping 2 crobats after. Variants with Nidoqueen will just end up being KO'd every turn and eventually run out of Gengars. A good Gyarados should be able to Crobat them enough for about three Gengars. It can be annoying but it's not really a bad matchup. My testing shows a very positive matchup with Gengar.
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It's a TERRIBAD match-up. Varaints without Nidoqueen will most likely play Metagross, so there goes the chance of avoiding Fainting Spell (unless you hit for 60 and drop 3 Crobats... but Crobats are Shadow Room targets and Poke Turns in hand = Poltergeist damage)!

Poltergeist is a massive weapon against Gyarados- At the start of the game Gyarados has heaps of trainers in hand and Poltergeist is a real early weapon and Gengar will get ahead early. Add in a prize a turn with Shadow Room and Fainting Spell and you have a bad match-up.

Anyone who says Luxray is auto-loss clearly hasn't played the match-up very much. It's 45-55-ish if they play lucario gl but Luxray w/o Lucario is near auto-win because Gyarados can OHKO but Luxray can't.

Flygon is tough if you don't run several Warp Points/cyclone energies (or Luxray GL Lv X), which you definitely should do.
 
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