What is the matchup anyway? Gyarados will lose it's Karps after Impersonate if the player has a good lostgar build, but they can still hit consistent damage. Who has the matchup?
Gyarados vs. Lostgar
- Thread starter Matryoshka
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This one is really based on the build. Gyarados builds are pretty standard now... but there are a few LostGar builds. MewGar is a 50-50 split give or take. If the Gengar build is more of a T2 deck than a T1, it will be 55-45 gengar. If it is built to be T1, it cannot outlast Gyarados... making it a 45-55 Gyarados. This is once again really up in the air... my post is based 100% on my testing. Theorymon lies to you in this situation... don't believe the general theorymon that Gengar auto-wins Gyarados matchups. Just not true.
Technically, the fastest wins. I tried Lostgar VS Gyarados only once, and Lostgar won, but listen to Zero, as he playtested more times than me. (I think Gyarados got a T-2 start...) But even though Lostgar Lostzone one magicarp, the damage of revenge tail will still be 60 (Plus Expert, 80) that will probably KO Mew in one turn, and Gengar, 2 turns, which has no difference with 90 or 110. Therefore, I am more with Gyarados than Lostgar (This is if the Lost gar player plays more with Mew than Gengar).
The thing gengar can do to make the match more in favor is to add in honchkrow SV.
I think T king knows what i'm talking about. (ask him i have to hurry right now)
I think T king knows what i'm talking about. (ask him i have to hurry right now)
I suppose you could, but what if they have a full bench? I'm slightly leaning toward Lostgar. Cursed Droplets always helps if you can win the stadium war. They'll be too scared to bench another Karp.
It's based on the build.
I'd say 40% 60%.
They're going to win the game no matter how many Magikarps are discarded, *cough**cough*lost remover**cough*
What I like about Lost Gar is how it can win no matter how much damage is inflicted against them.
But really, It all depends on the build.
I'd say 40% 60%.
They're going to win the game no matter how many Magikarps are discarded, *cough**cough*lost remover**cough*
What I like about Lost Gar is how it can win no matter how much damage is inflicted against them.
But really, It all depends on the build.
Depends on the build, but LostGar wins this one. Not automatically, but in general. LZing 2 Karps almost always wins for LostGar, and it really isn't that tough. Use the second attack on G-Dos, then Devolute, or I suppose you could tech in Honchkrow, or just use the first attack and get lucky and have your opponent have it in-hand (rarely happens, but it happens).
You want to get your Magikarps in your Discard Pile ASAP before your Opponent has the chance to Hurl into Darkness your hand for them with Gengar Prime cause If they send at least 1 Magikarp to the Lost Zone you're screwed. 50 damage with Tail Revenge and Expert Belt on a Gyarados isn't going to do a whole lot.
Relying on Gyarados' Tail Revenge is it's greatest strength but also it's weakness as well. In the end it's a speed race to see who gets their board advantage out first. Seeker is also nasty in LostGar as well cause that gives Gengar Prime another Pokemon to send to the Lost Zone to Win Con with Lost World.
Omastar MD is a nasty tech in LostGar granted Spiritomb is KO'ed sooner and If you get Omanyte out before Vileplume locks you from playing Helix Fossil you have the game won especially with Lost World.
Relying on Gyarados' Tail Revenge is it's greatest strength but also it's weakness as well. In the end it's a speed race to see who gets their board advantage out first. Seeker is also nasty in LostGar as well cause that gives Gengar Prime another Pokemon to send to the Lost Zone to Win Con with Lost World.
Omastar MD is a nasty tech in LostGar granted Spiritomb is KO'ed sooner and If you get Omanyte out before Vileplume locks you from playing Helix Fossil you have the game won especially with Lost World.
Yeah, just use Circulator (or later Catcher), Omastar, then take your pick of the Gyara or 'Karp to LZ unless the Karp is belted.
I think it's toss up. If Gyarados is smart enough to PLAY Pokémon Collector instead of using Impersonate, you can search out a Regice + 2 Magikarps, and discard the magikarps the same turn you search them out, before Gengar has a chance to do anything.
On the other hand, if the Gengar deck uses "cursed droplets" to KO the Gyarados, you then have a gyarados and a Magikarp in the Lost Zone, so the most Gyarados can hit for now is 80. Tking has a good point, Unown Q lets Honchkrow put a Magikarp back onto their bench, and Gengar Prime can kill. If their bench is full, all the LostGar deck has to do is play a seeker.
I say it's 50-50, and the winner of the match is whoever plays their deck better (barring horrible starts and such.)
On the other hand, if the Gengar deck uses "cursed droplets" to KO the Gyarados, you then have a gyarados and a Magikarp in the Lost Zone, so the most Gyarados can hit for now is 80. Tking has a good point, Unown Q lets Honchkrow put a Magikarp back onto their bench, and Gengar Prime can kill. If their bench is full, all the LostGar deck has to do is play a seeker.
I say it's 50-50, and the winner of the match is whoever plays their deck better (barring horrible starts and such.)
Who cares if they lost zone a magikarp? You still do 80, which 2 shots it just as well as 110. Plus, Gyarados can tech in cyrus so they can USE collector instead of impersonate it, or maybe even Absol G X with a few SP. Darks to OHKO any Gengar Prime. And even if they tech in a Gengar SF (which is not a good idea) you have resistance.
Yeah. Besides, any good Gyra player, as soon as they see that their opponent is running Gengar, will NEVER use Impersonate for a collector. Even if they do, the most karps that Gengar can lost zone before they get discarded is one. And Gyra still 2 shots Gengar w/ only two karps. I don't see why Gyra auto loses to Gengar.
If you actually play against the deck itself you'd know firsthand. It's not easy and the Counter Stadium strategy is something you don't want to go for since they can time a Lost World play after 5 or more Pokemon are in the Lost Zone to achieve the auto-win. They'll know you'll Counter-Stadium and they'll wait for the right moment to get around that.
One of the problems I see with Gyarados is that say you don't have a Collector in hand but you have Sableye active to Impersonate it while they have Gengar Prime active, would you take that risk with Impersonate? I took that chance and lost hard. Yeah the Omastar tech for Primal Swirl hurts Gyarados' chances of winning alot as well.
One of the problems I see with Gyarados is that say you don't have a Collector in hand but you have Sableye active to Impersonate it while they have Gengar Prime active, would you take that risk with Impersonate? I took that chance and lost hard. Yeah the Omastar tech for Primal Swirl hurts Gyarados' chances of winning alot as well.
And the problem is not when 'Gar LZs 1 Karp. It's when it LZs 2. And then possibly 3.
^But how can it do that?
T1: Gyra Impersonates for 2 Karp, and a Regice.
T2: Gengar rarecandies to Prime, puts an energy on, and LostZones 1 Karp.
T3: Gyra Plays down Karp, BTS to Dos, Collectors for Unown Q, and two Karps. Regimoves the two karps, quicks the Sableye, and sends up Gyra.
Now, there are two karps in the discard, and one underneath the Gyrados. Unless Gyra misplays like crazy, the most karps that can be lost zoned, is one.
T1: Gyra Impersonates for 2 Karp, and a Regice.
T2: Gengar rarecandies to Prime, puts an energy on, and LostZones 1 Karp.
T3: Gyra Plays down Karp, BTS to Dos, Collectors for Unown Q, and two Karps. Regimoves the two karps, quicks the Sableye, and sends up Gyra.
Now, there are two karps in the discard, and one underneath the Gyrados. Unless Gyra misplays like crazy, the most karps that can be lost zoned, is one.
^ playing collector to get karps in hand is a misplay already (unless the gyarados player didn't know he played vs lostgar)
How does the Gyara player get in the Karps if they can't use Impersonate? I think the matchup is actually even.
^ Of course they should impersonate, but not for collector. They should use monk's training if going vs lostgar.
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