Help with Plasma PorygonZ deck (Expanded/Casual play)

[banberry]

Hey guys I just got back into Pokemon after a hiatus and decided I really liked the PorygonZ/Plasma engine and tried constructing a deck out of it. After browsing old threads on http://google.com/ and such I came up with this decklist and posted to diff places for advice:


Pokemon (16):
3 Porygon PLB
1 Porygon2 PLB
3 Porygon-Z PLB The engine of the deck
3 Tornadus EX PLF - main attacker and receiver of plasma energies so hes the only attack in here at 3
2 Thundurus - Utility card but one you'd like to see more of, used to grab plasma energies back and cover a thunder type to exploit enemy pokemon weaknesses
2 Dialga - Another main attacker, I'd like to bump him to 3. Mill is a slight bonus, I wouldn't count on it to save the day. Dragon type means he's helpful against alot of pokemon.
1 Genesect - Another utility pokemon, mainly used for his ability to catcher things out. His grasstype means we can switch him in to cover more types.
1 Deoxys - Only here for the little extra damage and possible type coverage. Will mostly stay on the bench along with genesect.

Trainers (32):
4 Professor Juniper
3 n
3 colress - Jun, N and Colress are all here for the draw and consistency
3 Skyla - Helpful for rounding out the trainers and supporters by being a searcher for the searchers.
2 Shadow Triad - I used to run 3 but I think 2 is enough, can clog early game after all. Often times you'll only use it to get plasma energies too. Unless you want to grab a plasmaball/colress machine back early game to accelerate faster.
3 Rare Candy - You want your 'Gons out asap.
4 Colress Machine - I started with 2, went to 4, back to 3 and now back to 4. You'll most likely draw 1-2 plasma energies making at least 2 of tehse cards dead throughout the game but the importance of having all 4 energies out as early as turn 1 or 2 is too important.
3 Max Potion - Used in conjunction with Porygon to make keep your pokemon alive for turns on end.
3 Team Plasma Ball
2 Level Ball
2 ultra ball - 2 Level ball is just the right number to see your porygons early in the game. I struggled with the right number of Plasma balls and ultra balls. Intially I had 4 plasma and 3 ultra which was by far too many. I opted for more plasma than ultra since plasma does everything ultra does but without the discard in this deck.

Energy (12):
4 Plasma Energy
4 Double Colorless Energy
4 Prism

Cards Im considering:

Lugia EX, Heatran EX and additional copies of Deoxys/Genesect/Dialga. However I need some input on how good these cards actually are.

After some advice, a player suggested I add in some new cards

NEW LIST
Pokemon (15): 3 Porygon PLB
1 Porygon2 PLB
3 Porygon-Z PLB
3 Tornadus EX PLF
2 Thundurus
1 Lugia
1 Dialga
1 Genesect

Trainers (32):
4 Professor Juniper
3 N
3 colress
1 Wally
1 Lysandre
1 AZ
1 Hex maniac
2 Shadow Triad
2 Rare Candy
4 Colress Machine
3MaxPotion
3 Team Plasma Ball
2 Level Ball
2 ultra ball

Energy (12):
4 Plasma Energy
4 Double Colorless Energy
4 Prism

Its at 59 cards atm. I took out Deoxys since even with 2 he/she would only provide 20 damage and take up 2 spots on the bench. Regarding the damage, I'm having a bit of trouble with the benchmarks (220, 240). My Tornadus is my main attacker (so hes at 3) and can reach 180 with 4 plasma energy and more with a muscle band and so on. Hes first attack is a subpar Shaymin EX which is why I decided not to add in shaymin ex which was suggested since I run ultra ball.

For the damage benchmarks problems, I opted to 2HKO consistently by keeping my pokemon alive longer instead of making OHKO more consistently by adding in more Deoxys. For this reason I added 1 Lugia as an 'ender'. The loss of Plasma energy seems to slow the deck down fast to the point it puts you on the backfoot but I think the tradeoff with a powerhouse like Lugia is worth it. I kept Genesect for his catcher effect and his power. As for Dialga....I kept one to test, Im just scared of the other many dragons.

For the trainers...I need some help with ratios and whats important. Wally is faster and helps where I can't evolve pokemon. Im pretty scared of item lock so Lysandre and Hex maniac are there, plus their effects arent too bad so having 1 can be useful anyway.

I really want to find space for possibly pokemon fan club Muscle bands, stadiums and most of all VS Seekers. Shadow triad seems so useful in getting back plasma energies but maybe with Thundurus and VS Seeker to grab it back I can take it down to 1? For rare candy I feel bad taking it down to even 2, will it be ok not being at 3? Finally for level, plasma and ultra ball. Should I cut level ball or ultra ball? Plasma ball technically does what ultra ball since all my things are plasma. I think cutting level ball is smarter since ultra ball can search for anything but I am unsure.

For muscle band, should I bother with it? Adding 20 only takes my lugia to 140, my gene to 120 and my tornadus to 200 (thats with all 4 plasmas attached to it too). If so how many? Also for stadiums I was thinking either Plasma Frigate or Aspertia but I dunno if either is worth it. Running 1 would mean Id never see it but 2 might seem too much.

Sorry for the long read. I understand this deck isn't very competitive tier wise but I'd still like to optimize it and make it as good as it can be for competitive play.

Thanks!

 

[SilverSilent]

Just for future reference, I'm pretty sure this goes in the Deck Garage forum anyways off to the help section.

First off. The biggest thing here is to me your deck seems all over the place on what your trying to do.

Before I even touch on the Pokémon, let's start on the Trainer Cards.

Level ball is not helping you here at all. You may as well be running a 4 Ultra Balls and 3 Plasma Balls. Why this is, is because with the exception of Porygon and
Porygon2, everything else is Team Plasma Pokémon and EXs to boot. There just adding to the clunky structure.

You should be running 3-4 Rare Candies as well, that is a must.

Wally in my opinion if you're not careful hurt you more than help you and here is why. Since you're running only 1 Porygon2, you're going to have a rough time using Wally properly so most likely replace it with another Rare Candy.

Hex Maniac is a drop as well because if you're focusing on quickly getting Porygon-Z out it's only going to hurt you since it disables Pokémon Abilities.

Drop 1 Juniper, Colress, and N, and add an AZ and 3 VS Seekers. Since you're only able to move Plasma Energy it's crucial to be able to pick your special energy up while moving the energy around, plus VS Seeker enables you to reuse discarded Supporters.

Lysandre is good but you're running Genesect so capitalize on it.

So, Trainer cards wise this is what you should look like in my opinion:

Trainers - 32
3 Professor Juniper
2 N
2 Colress
2 AZ
2 Shadow Triad
0-1 Wally
3 VS Seeker
4 Colress Machine
4 Ultra Ball
3 Plasma Ball
3-4 Rare Candy
3 Max Potion

Next up is your Pokémon.

First off Dragon Dialga is bad and here is why. The more Plasma Energy attached means more mill power right and can 2OHKO regular EXs. Sounds good right? Well here's the issue with it. First let's say your opponent Lysandre's your Porygon-Z up and you have two Plasma Energy attached, without an AZ you're pretty much stuck with half of your Plasma Energy trapped and no way to recover. Palkia is better just because you can basically attack and swap it out for another Pokémon and takes one less energy to charge up. Of course the downside would be that if you only have two Pokémon it will force you to switch that one to the active and it is less damage.

Personally, I'd only run 1-2 Tornadus if any. Main reason is because you have to attach again Plasma to do more damage which isn't really that great. You're once again relying on a lot of factors to come in to play in order to power him up. Even this, you're heavily susceptible to Enhanced Hammer running your day. Instead run an extra Lugia to possibly get that extra prize advantage.

Genesect is probably going to be that advantage point because of Red Signal and Megalo Cannon has snipe damage.

So here is a list of Pokemon you can do:

Pokémon - 16
3 Porygon
1 Porygon2
3 Porygon-Z
2-3 Thundurous EX
0-2 Tornadus EX
1-2 Lugia EX
1-2 Palkia EX
2 Genesect EX

Energy count seems fine and shouldn't be changed.

In retrospect, Porygon-Z is rather difficult and clunky to maintain but hopefully this helped out a bit and kept the idea of what you wanted to do. As far as expanded goes you're probably going to struggle with Mega Evolution Pokémon and are going to be one hit knocked out a lot. Still this should be a fun deck to play and I hope you have fun playing it!

 

[banberry]

Just for future reference, I'm pretty sure this goes in the Deck Garage forum anyways off to the help section.

First off. The biggest thing here is to me your deck seems all over the place on what your trying to do.

Before I even touch on the Pokémon, let's start on the Trainer Cards.

Level ball is not helping you here at all. You may as well be running a 4 Ultra Balls and 3 Plasma Balls. Why this is, is because with the exception of Porygon and
Porygon2, everything else is Team Plasma Pokémon and EXs to boot. There just adding to the clunky structure.

You should be running 3-4 Rare Candies as well, that is a must.

Wally in my opinion if you're not careful hurt you more than help you and here is why. Since you're running only 1 Porygon2, you're going to have a rough time using Wally properly so most likely replace it with another Rare Candy.

Hex Maniac is a drop as well because if you're focusing on quickly getting Porygon-Z out it's only going to hurt you since it disables Pokémon Abilities.

Drop 1 Juniper, Colress, and N, and add an AZ and 3 VS Seekers. Since you're only able to move Plasma Energy it's crucial to be able to pick your special energy up while moving the energy around, plus VS Seeker enables you to reuse discarded Supporters.

Lysandre is good but you're running Genesect so capitalize on it.

So, Trainer cards wise this is what you should look like in my opinion:

Trainers - 32
3 Professor Juniper
2 N
2 Colress
2 AZ
2 Shadow Triad
0-1 Wally
3 VS Seeker
4 Colress Machine
4 Ultra Ball
3 Plasma Ball
3-4 Rare Candy
3 Max Potion

Next up is your Pokémon.

First off Dragon Dialga is bad and here is why. The more Plasma Energy attached means more mill power right and can 2OHKO regular EXs. Sounds good right? Well here's the issue with it. First let's say your opponent Lysandre's your Porygon-Z up and you have two Plasma Energy attached, without an AZ you're pretty much stuck with half of your Plasma Energy trapped and no way to recover. Palkia is better just because you can basically attack and swap it out for another Pokémon and takes one less energy to charge up. Of course the downside would be that if you only have two Pokémon it will force you to switch that one to the active and it is less damage.

Personally, I'd only run 1-2 Tornadus if any. Main reason is because you have to attach again Plasma to do more damage which isn't really that great. You're once again relying on a lot of factors to come in to play in order to power him up. Even this, you're heavily susceptible to Enhanced Hammer running your day. Instead run an extra Lugia to possibly get that extra prize advantage.

Genesect is probably going to be that advantage point because of Red Signal and Megalo Cannon has snipe damage.

So here is a list of Pokemon you can do:

Pokémon - 16
3 Porygon
1 Porygon2
3 Porygon-Z
2-3 Thundurous EX
0-2 Tornadus EX
1-2 Lugia EX
1-2 Palkia EX
2 Genesect EX

Energy count seems fine and shouldn't be changed.

In retrospect, Porygon-Z is rather difficult and clunky to maintain but hopefully this helped out a bit and kept the idea of what you wanted to do. As far as expanded goes you're probably going to struggle with Mega Evolution Pokémon and are going to be one hit knocked out a lot. Still this should be a fun deck to play and I hope you have fun playing it!

Thanks so much for the long informative post! Ill look for deck garage next time. Your reasoning was very insightful and helped me understand the pace of the game (i.e. whats good and why). I have a question regarding dealing with Mega evolutions. The deck is tier 4 at best and its a constant uphill battle against Megas, what can I add to help? My first thought was Muscle band for more damage but theres no way I can OHKO them is there? Another thought was stadiums as someone mentioned I need a few just to disrupt the opponents. Also is pokemon fan club better than ultra ball here? Should I run just 1 or is its supporter nature make it too weak compared to other supporters.
Finally Im looking for a card that allows me to grab energy from the discard back to my hand/pokemon faster. Is there any such card? I feel since all my energies are special, enhanced hammer is such a great counter and I need a way to come back.

Now onto a pokemon, I have questions about genesect decks in general. From my understanding genesect/virizion is very strong and genesect makes other decks quite competitive too. If that is the case should I rely more heavily on genesect and add in cards that other decks run that make genesect so strong?
As for the others I have a question about Lugia. Do I really want to see more than 1 in a game? Or is 1 enough. Two attacks from him already loses me 2 plasma energy and Im worried that, that will put me too behind. Similarly with Genesect, is more than 1 necessary? I mainly plop him on the bench and use his catcher ability and most likely only use his attack once. Main reason Im asking is because Im still unfamiliar with the strategy of the game and Im worried Im thinking about this with the wrong mindset.
I don't think Lugia should be a main attacker due to its cost and as such more of powerplay. Genesect is strong but Tornadus can reach his numbers just as easily if not higher.
I agree Dialga is not very effective, with Palkia should I be aiming to only attack with Strafe? Or is investing in his heal attack for the longterm the right way to play it in most situations. In this case should Palkia be the main attacker and be run at more since I want to see him more?

Edit: Would float stone or eviolite be any good? And is evosoda better than rarecandy?

Thanks again for you help, it's been very useful.