Standard Ho-Oh/Salazzle

[FlavorfulPineApl]

****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

##Pokémon - 14

* 3 Ho-Oh-GX BUS 21
* 2 Salandit GRI 15
* 2 Salazzle-GX BUS 25
* 1 Turtonator-GX GRI 18
* 1 Volcanion STS 25
* 3 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 60
* 2 Volcanion-EX STS 26

##Trainer Cards - 32

* 4 Choice Band GRI 121
* 2 Float Stone BKT 137
* 4 Guzma BUS 115
* 3 Kiawe BUS 116
* 4 Max Elixir BKP 102
* 4 N FCO 105
* 4 Professor Sycamore BKP 107
* 1 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
* 2 Switch ROS 91
* 4 Ultra Ball FCO 113

##Energy - 14

* 14 Fire Energy Energy 2

Total Cards - 60

****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******

I can't draw well at all with this. 30% of games have I actually started with a Ho-Oh AND an out to Kiawe. Any tips? I'm stumped. It just doesn't draw well...

 

[Giufla91]

Hi, I can't see any changes I'd do to your list, I find it pretty standard evene if (personal taste) I'd drop one kiawe (but for what I really don't know).
So seeing no problems in your list, I just wanna share a thought I had last week playing alolan ninetales list.

I am into competitive from a year now, since 2009/10, and I'v gained back many skill a player has to go, so here my suggestion: maybe the draw issues you're having are based on your playstyle, most of the players (including me) are always trying to think at next turn, next support, next move and in with this rush we run the risk to burn all of our resources early game.

So I'll suggest more testing and more important don't rush, you don't always need to drag in your deck. I don't know you, maybe you're a far better player than me I've just wanted to share this opinion with you, I started playing alolan ninetales due to the fact is a deck very sensible to playstyle and microdecisions (so is a way to become more and more efficient e skilled as a player) and, without octillery, even if 4 sycamore/4N etc., it started working well (we started) the moment I stipped playing a tapu lele down, or a sycamore when I had not a real need other than dragging into my deck in rush to put down as many attackers here o there.

Hope you good luck with this deck, I find it very interesting I think it will see some very importatn play in the next months (except for his ninentales match up) the only reason I don't play it is because I have zero hooh and salazzle right now eheh!

 

[TuxedoBlack]

I tend to agree with @Guizzon in that your list appears to be quite straightforward without any major "holes," IMO. (Although, my personal preference would be to run Field Blowers and Stadiums, but those may not be critical to you.) So, I believe your play style may be affecting your not achieving getting the Ho-Oh GX and Kiawe into play T1. One idea I do have is to perhaps replace 1 energy with an Oranguru for supplemental card-draw support.

By the way, a T2 Kiawe can be quite effective too. If the 4 Professor Sycamore and 4 N do not work well for you, then mix up your card-draw Supporters. For example, if you tend to deplete your hand quite a bit T1, maybe incorporating a Lillie could help. I've also tested Sophocles in my Turtonator-Volcanion list too. Have you tried adding a 9th card-draw Supporter?

I hope you find these comments helpful.

 

[KingJellybean]

I suggest the following changes to pull of the kiawe ho-oh combo more often:

remove
- 1 Kiawe (you almost never use more than one in a game)
- 1 rescue stretcher (it does not seem like a card you would use often in this deck
- 1 switch (you don't need that many switching options)
- 1 guzma (3 should be enough)

add
+ 1 Tapu lele (Increase the chance you can search for Kiawe turn 1 and improve overall consistency.
+ 2 nest ball (helps searching for turn 1 ho-oh and improve consistency.
+ 1 scorched earth (A helpful stadium in a deck like this)

I hope this helps!

 

[FlavorfulPineApl]

I will take all 3 of your guys's suggestions into account. I did toy around with the draw supporter, such as a Lillie and a Skyla; or 1 Wicke over the 4th N. I did also want to add an Oranguru, but most the time it was just a bench sitter. The main reason I don't run Stadiums is because they are not necessarily needed. I will consider 1-2 Scorched Earth as @KingJellybean has suggested. As for Field Blower, I couldn't find a fit for it, and most of the time during testing I didn't find myself needing it. I do like the idea of Nest Ball, as sometimes you don't start Ho-Oh, and it could improve consistency. As for the 4th Tapu Lele, I will definitely test, but I don't like having my bench "clogged" with such a Poke. Removing 1 Kiawe is an OK thing I guess, but sometimes I use it late-game. Thank you all for your suggestions!

 

[CaptZero]

As for Field Blower, I couldn't find a fit for it, and most of the time during testing I didn't find myself needing it.

If you don't find room for it you're basically allowing your opponents to have their way with tools and stadiums. Plus unless I missed something on your initial list you don't have stadiums of your own so you could very well end up stuck under the effects of Parallel City all game long in your Gardy matchups.

 

[FlavorfulPineApl]

If you don't find room for it you're basically allowing your opponents to have their way with tools and stadiums. Plus unless I missed something on your initial list you don't have stadiums of your own so you could very well end up stuck under the effects of Parallel City all game long in your Gardy matchups.

Parallel City doesn't hurt this deck as much as you may think. Bench size is never an issue, most the time I only have 3 things benched. As for damage reduction, Choice Band and Steam Up negate its affect too well. I am testing currently with 1 Field Blower though, as I do think its still wise to include one.

 

[gumball51321]

I don't find anything wrong with your list whatsoever. I would say maybe play 4 Ho-oh and 4 Lele, but that's player preference. Most Ho-oh Salazzle layers that do well only play 2-3 N, so playing 4 should definitely do you well. It may just be how you play your hands out, so I probably wouldn't change anything. If you continue to play Rescue Stretcher, I say drop it for a Super Rod, since Energy recovery is huge in this deck, and there are no situation where you want to put 1 Pokemon into your hand unless you have a Salandit with 2 Energy on it. Either that or drop down to 3 Elixir. 3 Kiawe is necessary because you NEED to hit it T1(T2 is acceptable, but not nearly as powerful), and the only reason you don't play 4 is because you have 3-4 Lele. If you do up your Lele count to 4, which I suggest if you have consistency problems, up your Ho-oh count with it so you have a higher chance at starting and drawing into it. Stadiums are something the deck simply doesn't need, so don't bother with it, and last but not least, Field Blower. I personally like Field Blower in here, but it will almost never make a difference. Ho-oh OHKO's everything in any Garb deck, so you don't need Steam Up(Therefore, not caring about Garbotoxin), and getting rid of Choice Bands usually won't make a huge difference, since 180 is the magic number that a lot of things only go to exactly 180 and not 190, meaning you'll get 2HKO'd either way. I think your list is really good and I wouldn't make any huge changes since your whole engine is near flawless on paper. If it needs to be done, even drop a Choice Band. 3 is... sufficient, and you always have Volcanion to do more damage with, on top of Ho-oh already doing 180. Good luck working out the kinks.

 

[FlavorfulPineApl]

I don't find anything wrong with your list whatsoever. I would say maybe play 4 Ho-oh and 4 Lele, but that's player preference. Most Ho-oh Salazzle layers that do well only play 2-3 N, so playing 4 should definitely do you well. It may just be how you play your hands out, so I probably wouldn't change anything. If you continue to play Rescue Stretcher, I say drop it for a Super Rod, since Energy recovery is huge in this deck, and there are no situation where you want to put 1 Pokemon into your hand unless you have a Salandit with 2 Energy on it. Either that or drop down to 3 Elixir. 3 Kiawe is necessary because you NEED to hit it T1(T2 is acceptable, but not nearly as powerful), and the only reason you don't play 4 is because you have 3-4 Lele. If you do up your Lele count to 4, which I suggest if you have consistency problems, up your Ho-oh count with it so you have a higher chance at starting and drawing into it. Stadiums are something the deck simply doesn't need, so don't bother with it, and last but not least, Field Blower. I personally like Field Blower in here, but it will almost never make a difference. Ho-oh OHKO's everything in any Garb deck, so you don't need Steam Up(Therefore, not caring about Garbotoxin), and getting rid of Choice Bands usually won't make a huge difference, since 180 is the magic number that a lot of things only go to exactly 180 and not 190, meaning you'll get 2HKO'd either way. I think your list is really good and I wouldn't make any huge changes since your whole engine is near flawless on paper. If it needs to be done, even drop a Choice Band. 3 is... sufficient, and you always have Volcanion to do more damage with, on top of Ho-oh already doing 180. Good luck working out the kinks.

Thank you! I will change the Stretcher for the Super Rod as sometimes I do find myself needing some extra Energy. As for Field Blower, I'll probably cut an Elixir for one. And 4 Lele is just something I'm not comfortable with. If it were up to me, I'd only play 2 normally, but I NEED to hit it T1 or T2.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

@gumball51321 made some really good points and I'd suggest you implement those recommendations in phases till you find the "right" fit for you. Consider starting with each suggested change, then play test (for 5-8 games) to see if the suggested change improves your overall deck operations and performance. Consider adding the 4th Ho-oh GX (-1 F energy) first.

 

[HouchinsDJ]

I've played Ho-Oh GX quite a bit over the past month and there's only one thing that I see missing which is Field Blower. I used to not ran any as well but I'm telling you right now that you should play two. This is based off my own experiences with the deck. You'd be surprised at what removing a Choice Band, FFB, Float Stone, or whatever Stadium can do for you. I'd recommend the following:

-1 Kiawe
-1 Choice Band

Playing 2 Kiawe is fine because as someone else already pointed out, you're usually only going to be using one per game, if at all if you can't find the right time for it. I like 4 Choice Band but you have Volcanion EX's Steam Up to supplement it, and when running two Field Blowers you won't have to worry about Garbotoxin shutting them down as much.

 

[FlavorfulPineApl]

I've played Ho-Oh GX quite a bit over the past month and there's only one thing that I see missing which is Field Blower. I used to not ran any as well but I'm telling you right now that you should play two. This is based off my own experiences with the deck. You'd be surprised at what removing a Choice Band, FFB, Float Stone, or whatever Stadium can do for you. I'd recommend the following:

-1 Kiawe
-1 Choice Band

Playing 2 Kiawe is fine because as someone else already pointed out, you're usually only going to be using one per game, if at all if you can't find the right time for it. I like 4 Choice Band but you have Volcanion EX's Steam Up to supplement it, and when running two Field Blowers you won't have to worry about Garbotoxin shutting them down as much.

OK, I was finding 4 CBs to be a bit too much, as sometimes the extra damage isn't even needed. Also, I've had 2 Kiawe prized in a lot of games so it scares me to remove one.

 

[HouchinsDJ]

OK, I was finding 4 CBs to be a bit too much, as sometimes the extra damage isn't even needed. Also, I've had 2 Kiawe prized in a lot of games so it scares me to remove one.

Having two Kiawe prized just sounds unlucky and shouldn't happen THAT often. I understand running three, I just think that two gets the job done. If you want to keep the third Kiawe I would remove the fourth Guzma since you have two Float Stone and two Switch.

 

[FlavorfulPineApl]

Having two Kiawe prized just sounds unlucky and shouldn't happen THAT often. I understand running three, I just think that two gets the job done. If you want to keep the third Kiawe I would remove the fourth Guzma since you have two Float Stone and two Switch.

My luck is horrible all the time, on anything, so that may be it. As for 4 Guzma, I like having 4 to reset Phoenix Burn, while bringing up a Poke of my desire; consistently. I'll probably just remove 1 Kiawe, as it won't happen that often