Ruling Holon Mentor

S

ShinyMarshtomp

- Professional Faker -
Member
I've recently read PMJ's article about playing Mr. Stone's Project with no Energy on the discard, just to remove it from your hand.
Now my question is about Holon Mentor. In the cards it says "Search your deck for up to 3 Basic Pokémon...", so can I use it, look at the cards in my deck and don't grab any Basic Pokémon, even if there are Basics there?
I'm asking this because your opponent will never actually know if there are Basics or not in your deck.
Thanks in advance.
 
Yes, you could search and not get anything, as it's possible for there not to be any basics left in your deck, even if there are, but you can't prove that to your opponent as it's not common knowledge. Something like Windstorm would be different, and you would have to discard at least one card, since the use of "up to" is generally used starting at 1. That's why the wording on Potion was changed from "remove up to" to "remove 1 if there is only 1" damage counters. Damage counters are also common knowledge. But the point is that the change was made to clarify the card since potions are put in so many starter decks for newer players and such.

But to compare, for Holon Mentor, you could use Celio's Network and say there's no Pokemon left in your deck, even if you know there is, because you can't prove it to your opponent. And just a reminder, if you did that and decided not to look through your deck just to get the card out of your hand, you would legally still have to shuffle.
 
Black Winged Gengar said:
Yes, you could search and not get anything, as it's possible for there not to be any basics left in your deck, even if there are, but you can't prove that to your opponent as it's not common knowledge. Something like Windstorm would be different, and you would have to discard at least one card, since the use of "up to" is generally used starting at 1. That's why the wording on Potion was changed from "remove up to" to "remove 1 if there is only 1" damage counters. Damage counters are also common knowledge. But the point is that the change was made to clarify the card since potions are put in so many starter decks for newer players and such.

But to compare, for Holon Mentor, you could use Celio's Network and say there's no Pokemon left in your deck, even if you know there is, because you can't prove it to your opponent. And just a reminder, if you did that and decided not to look through your deck just to get the card out of your hand, you would legally still have to shuffle.
Click to expand...

i might be wrong, but if there's no Pokémon in your deck, and a Judge see's that, the Judge is allowed to look into your deck. What Mentor means with Up to, is that you can Pick 1 to 3 Basic Pokémon. if there are none, you are allowed to take none. If there's atleast 1 Basic, you need to ake Atleast 1 Basic
 
Ex Dragon18 said:
Black Winged Gengar said:
Yes, you could search and not get anything, as it's possible for there not to be any basics left in your deck, even if there are, but you can't prove that to your opponent as it's not common knowledge. Something like Windstorm would be different, and you would have to discard at least one card, since the use of "up to" is generally used starting at 1. That's why the wording on Potion was changed from "remove up to" to "remove 1 if there is only 1" damage counters. Damage counters are also common knowledge. But the point is that the change was made to clarify the card since potions are put in so many starter decks for newer players and such.

But to compare, for Holon Mentor, you could use Celio's Network and say there's no Pokemon left in your deck, even if you know there is, because you can't prove it to your opponent. And just a reminder, if you did that and decided not to look through your deck just to get the card out of your hand, you would legally still have to shuffle.
Click to expand...

i might be wrong, but if there's no Pokémon in your deck, and a Judge see's that, the Judge is allowed to look into your deck. What Mentor means with Up to, is that you can Pick 1 to 3 Basic Pokémon. if there are none, you are allowed to take none. If there's atleast 1 Basic, you need to ake Atleast 1 Basic
Click to expand...

No you don't. You can fail the search on purpose.
 
Searching on Pokegym i found this
If you play the card you have to take as many Pokemon into your deck as you can, up to what the card says.
You can't just choose to not search or take any.
 
Mewstor said:
Ex Dragon18 said:
Black Winged Gengar said:
Yes, you could search and not get anything, as it's possible for there not to be any basics left in your deck, even if there are, but you can't prove that to your opponent as it's not common knowledge. Something like Windstorm would be different, and you would have to discard at least one card, since the use of "up to" is generally used starting at 1. That's why the wording on Potion was changed from "remove up to" to "remove 1 if there is only 1" damage counters. Damage counters are also common knowledge. But the point is that the change was made to clarify the card since potions are put in so many starter decks for newer players and such.

But to compare, for Holon Mentor, you could use Celio's Network and say there's no Pokemon left in your deck, even if you know there is, because you can't prove it to your opponent. And just a reminder, if you did that and decided not to look through your deck just to get the card out of your hand, you would legally still have to shuffle.
Click to expand...

i might be wrong, but if there's no Pokémon in your deck, and a Judge see's that, the Judge is allowed to look into your deck. What Mentor means with Up to, is that you can Pick 1 to 3 Basic Pokémon. if there are none, you are allowed to take none. If there's atleast 1 Basic, you need to ake Atleast 1 Basic
Click to expand...

No you don't. You can fail the search on purpose.
Click to expand...

that's Cheating, and Cheating is not allowed
 
Most resent ruling by Pokepop in Pokegym.

If you know that you have no Basics in your deck, you can still play Holon's Mentor. Or even if you find a Basic, but not any that you want to get, you can fail the seach on purpose. The contents of your deck are not shared game knowledge and so you do not have to share that info with anyone else.
The Mentor did have a game effect (the seach of the deck), so it was not completely "wasted".
Click to expand...
 
The card says "up to 3". That means three or less. There is no minimum requirement placed on the card (or at least it's not placed in the text). By "up to 3" it means 3, 2, 1, or none at all. Zero below three.

If they didnt want this conflict, the text should have been different... Official rulings can only interpret the meanings of the cards, not place new restrictions on them such as having to search for at least one basic pokemon.

-Mystic-
 
That's still a little incorrect. That's not how the card is to be read, and if the deck WAS considered common knowledge, you would have to get at least 1 Basic. But it's not, and as a the most recent ruling is read, if you search your deck and don't find what you're looking for, even if you know there a Pokemon in your deck, you may choose not to get anything as there could logically be no Pokemon in your deck, in theory, as your opponent doesn't know this (Hence it is not common knowledge.) However, things like Windstorm are to be read as 1 or 2, not 0 - 2, and you would have to discard at least 1 card. As I said previously, this is why the wording a Potion was changed. Even though the function of the card did not change, the older print was supposed to be read like Windstorm, and since Potions are commonly used by newer players (As they are packed in Starter decks), the print was changed. I can confirm this from a firsthand experience, recalling at our State Championship my opponent tried to get rid of a Windstorm by discarding nothing, and the Judge considered it an illegal move.
 
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