Discussion How do People do Well With Buzzwole?

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Seastrome

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I'm currently 4-7 with an exact copy of Azuls list. And I want to try to play this deck more but this is a pure netdeck and i'm 4-7 with it which discourages me even further. My friend took it to a regionals and went 0-5-1 with it. My friend went 4-4-1 with Bulu in EXPANDED at his first regionals so he's not that bad. I just question the deck really.

I always whiff Elixirs and I find it difficult to decide whether to GX with Buzzwole or Lycanroc. Makes it seem like the Lycanroc is a waste of an attacker then if you use Buzzwole for that most of the time. And then there are times where I have an awkward bench and can't Elixir to something useful but have to Sycamore it away.

i would like a list of all the optimal plays with possible opening hands.

for example: i drew a hand just now of Regirock, 3 Elixirs, Brooklett, Rockruff, and 2 choice bands. How do I play with that?
 
There is always some variance involved where you get hands where your deck completely malfunctions and most often or not the power is entirely on the draws and not what you could've done. But most of the time the deck has a natural flow that makes it very consistent. I really like Azuls list in particular (I actually don't know the full lists for both 1st and 2nd place but have an idea for 59 cards probs for Azul because I really liked his modification and observed it abit). Anyways even with quite shaky starts you can try to be critical and try to learn in hindsight if actually there are some plays or alternative path you could have taken that might have mattered.

You still may get few turns where you may have an idle hand (if you watch finals of Latin America and other streams they had idle hands) but the deck is good enough to swing its boards in a matter of turns, and really I think the deck is that strong that you can afford to make suboptimal plays and still. And if you are making all the correct decisions the deck is just that much more better. I found you often with this deck have the game at checkpoint by just setting up two attackers and a;ways have an out to take a prize next turn no matter if your opponent can ko one of the attackers.

Anyways I can't say if it is just luck or that there is an actual difference between you and others who have success, there are many factors.
But the subtle differences from a excellent to average player sometimes is all the difference.

Can you sequence better? Not just sequencing in one turn (e.g brooklet hill, thin out deck then/max elixir etc) but also sequencing which attacker you use first , which GX attack you use and conserving things that have better value later on. ((could you have played around certain weakness/counters better by doing this)
-E.g. Sometimes you want to get rid of Mew FCO and use it whilst you can e.g if you are scared that it is a cheap target later on or scared of garb or just is worse off.
-Another case e.g against Zoropod mathcup, Lycanroc is the perfect attacker once your safe from any Golispod form getting set up next turn and it can go unchecked due to no psychic weakness. But playing it down too early can be a two prize liability. Also its GX attack maybe the only way you can efficiently get a big number later on where absorption gx is bad.


Do you know when to not play your max elixir? If you aren't going to be able to retreat a pokemon for example then there is no need on hitting the elixirs, you might be to hold it for longer (for 1-2 turns) and let the deck thin out in the process for better odds.

Can you adapt and? e.g following the above case can you play conservatively or patiently. Or do you know when to accept the situation and play to your outs (that includes taking risks). This may not be an ideal play but if its worth it take it.

And are you sure you couldn't have changed anything.? Again I don't know what you've come across in your testing but even if it seems inevitable you can still reflect on it and learn for similar scenario and in a real game learn when you've reached a dead end or know when you whiffed critical moments and know when to scoop or play faster to figure things out as quickly as possible.
 
Seastrome said:
I'm currently 4-7 with an exact copy of Azuls list. And I want to try to play this deck more but this is a pure netdeck and i'm 4-7 with it which discourages me even further. My friend took it to a regionals and went 0-5-1 with it. My friend went 4-4-1 with Bulu in EXPANDED at his first regionals so he's not that bad. I just question the deck really.

I always whiff Elixirs and I find it difficult to decide whether to GX with Buzzwole or Lycanroc. Makes it seem like the Lycanroc is a waste of an attacker then if you use Buzzwole for that most of the time. And then there are times where I have an awkward bench and can't Elixir to something useful but have to Sycamore it away.

i would like a list of all the optimal plays with possible opening hands.

for example: i drew a hand just now of Regirock, 3 Elixirs, Brooklett, Rockruff, and 2 choice bands. How do I play with that?
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The main purpose of Lycanroc GX is to use the Bloodthirsty eyes ability. You would focus on setting up at least 2 Buzzwole so that you can then use Knuckle Impact to take multiple knockouts. Buzzwole can't attack after using Knuckle Impact so the optimal play is to use Absorbption GX to take a knockout and then use Knuckle Impact on your next turn. Then, ideally, you would already have another buzzwole ready to go on your bench so you can either retreat and Knuckle Impact for the win or Guzma into a buzzwole that's ready or a Pokemon with Float stone to retreat back into your Buzzwole and use Knuckle Impact for the win.

With your hand, you would simply start Rockruff, play brooklet hill, put a remoraid on your bench then pass. On your next turn, you would brooklet for a buzzwole and then use your elixers. If you get lucky and hit all of your elixers, then you are golden. Even if you only hit 1 or 2, you'll still be fine. Hopefully you either got an ultra ball, fighting energy, draw supporter or Tapu lele so you can try and get a new hand. You'll be behind a bit, bit its not the end of the world.
 
Buzzwole is a really aggressive card that can set up fast, do a bunch of damage, and the partners paired with it usually give a degree of control over what some of your opponent's options are. Remember when Yveltal-EX was BDIF? Most of the reasons why are the exact same with why both were/are successful.
 
Seastrome said:
I'm currently 4-7 with an exact copy of Azuls list.
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How familiar are you with statistics? I'm lousy at it, but I do understand the concept of "significant sample size". Actually, I shouldn't use the quotation marks because that probably is not the correct terminology. What I mean is that you can get misleading results if your sample size is too small, and that may be part of what is happening here.

The rest of it likely boils down to
  1. Personal Skill
  2. Personal Talent
  3. Personal Luck
  4. Match Up Luck
Personal Skill is what you've learned. Personal Talent is innate capacity. Personal luck is an after-the-fact view of random occurrences. Match Up luck is and after-the-fact view of numbers one through three, plus how your deck stacks up against their deck.
 
1. Lycanrock is only there for the ability and sometimes the GX attack. You should generally not be investing energy into it, get one basic fighting on it so you can fighting or strong it for a Dangerous Rogue-GX.
2. Jet Punch placement is key. Be thinking when you drop the extra damage, what on his bench could I Guzma for a KO at some point where that 30 damage makes a difference. It's also good to 'gut check' your opponent. Put 30 on a remoraid and you're telling him evolve to Octillery next turn or you lose it, same with most other 50/60hp basics. Sometimes an early Guzma/Bloodthirsty Eyes can net you two small basic KOs in one turn.
3. Aggression is the name of the game. Buzzwole is all about putting pressure on the board from turn 1.

Based on your comments and saying you're 4-7 like that's a bad thing, you need to keep in mind that chance is a major factor in this game. The game is nothing but probability. Even with the PERFECT list you will get horrible starts and unwinnable games sometimes, that's just how the game works. Most good players will run hundreds of practice matches with their lists (either playing against themselves or with practice partners) before they have a list they're happy with.

As for your starting hand, put Rockruff in the active, Regi on bench, Brooklet for a Buzzwole and drop all of your elixirs on it. Pray for a good topdeck. Sometimes you're going to be left praying for that topdeck even in the most consistent decks.
 
yeah well i never have a list i'm happy with. And playing the game these days is impossible. have fun losing to Buzzwole decks all day now with all the fudging support it has. Welcome to YUGIOH

And fact of the matter is, none of the top decks in the meta draw too well for me no matter how optimal the list.
 
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Seastrome said:
yeah well i never have a list i'm happy with. And playing the game these days is impossible. have fun losing to Buzzwole decks all day now with all the fudging support it has. Welcome to YUGIOH

And fact of the matter is, none of the top decks in the meta draw too well for me no matter how optimal the list.
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I am impressed. You both made a thread question questioning the effectiveness of one or the best decks in format (a deck that has car constant success at multiple major tournaments for 6 months strait) and then in the same thread complain about losing to all the time to that same deck.

Seriously. That fact that you are having trouble winnng with one of the best decks in the format says a lot more about you then it does the Buzzwole deck. Especially since this iisnt the first time you’ve made a thread just like this.
 
CrownAxe said:
I am impressed. You both made a thread question questioning the effectiveness of one or the best decks in format (a deck that has car constant success at multiple major tournaments for 6 months strait) and then in the same thread complain about losing to all the time to that same deck.

Seriously. That fact that you are having trouble winnng with one of the best decks in the format says a lot more about you then it does the Buzzwole deck. Especially since this iisnt the first time you’ve made a thread just like this.
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No? I draw complete crap most of the time. Anyone would lost a lot with hands like that. It must be that because I'm not a bad player. I bested Rukan twice online in the 2 times i've played him for example. I'm just not drawing well with the deck.
 
Seastrome said:
No? I draw complete crap most of the time. Anyone would lost a lot with hands like that. It must be that because I'm not a bad player. I bested Rukan twice online in the 2 times i've played him for example. I'm just not drawing well with the deck.
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I’ll take the 6 months of tournament success over 1 guy complaining about his “bad draws” for the millionth time

It’s not bad luck, it’s bad skill
 
CrownAxe said:
I’ll take the 6 months of tournament success over 1 guy complaining about his “bad draws” for the millionth time

It’s not bad luck, it’s bad skill
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Again, you're not seeing my games that I play or what I'm drawing. My argument is valid because how can I win if i'm not drawing well? A hand of Rockruff, 2 Elixirs, 2 Bands, Brooklett, and Regirock isn't good. I ended up drawing nothing of note to save me from falling too far behind to where I lost. But sure, I guess I need to stack my deck better, right?
 
Brooklet Hill for a Buzzwole and max elixir a bunch on to it. Now you have a set up Buzzwole. And you can Brooklet for a remoraid so yah you can set up octillery.

Wow such a terrible hand /sarcasm.

Seriously. Git gud
 
CrownAxe said:
Brooklet Hill for a Buzzwole and max elixir a bunch on to it. Now you have a set up Buzzwole. And you can Brooklet for a remoraid so yah you can set up octillery.

Wow such a terrible hand /sarcasm.

Seriously. Git gud
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and like i said, i drew nothing off my topdecks.
 
I played with Bulu vs Buzzwole just now. Guy goes, Elixir, hits. 2nd Elixir, hits. 3rd, hits. Sycamores into double puzzle to get Buzzwole and hits another Elixir. So fudging skilled there. I could do that too if i drew like that but I don't.

You say get good but I already know i'm good enough. You know little of me or how I play.
 
So? So you go online and try to declare that the best deck in format must be bad because you had a few dead draws?

Good players don’t blame there deck for there loses. You don’t get better by complaining about how unlucky you are or how broken the meta is. You get better by asking your “what can you do better?”. The only thing you can control is yourself so the only way to win more is to look at your actions and seeing what can you change about them to increase your chanc at winning. Even if the reason lost a game actually was because of bad luck, saying “ I lost because of bad luck” will never increase the chance of you doing better
 
Sometimes people go through slumps. First 2 quarters of the year, i only scored 45 points. In 2 weeks, i scored 57 points, against better competition because later in the year only people who are close to there worlds invite really got to cups. Buzzwole isn't bad, sometimes you get dead hands, sometimes you don't. I mean Azul had bad hands, but played out of them.
 
Honestly 10matches is nowhere near enough to be amazing with the deck, buzzroc has a fairly high skill cap to play well, you need to practice, honestly that's it, practice.

Grabbing the deck list from online is great, it's a good way to start, but bear in mind these pro players have played probably 100s if not 1000s of games with the deck.
 
I feel like people struggle to understand how variance works in terms of games. Back when I played poker variance was a huge component that factored into ones short and long term results and in a tournament where you are only playing like 10 ish sets it can be hard to discern if you are playing bad or running below expectations. Either way, I would personally lean away from being results orientated, at least in regards to the short term sample.
 
Seastrome said:
and like i said, i drew nothing off my topdecks.
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A draw problem? We can fix that.
First of all, why are you playing a netdeck? Not to insult you, but the guy you got it from won with this deck because of his skill. You have a different playstile. Everyone does.
Your Elixir whiffing problem comes from not a high enough concentration of energy.
It sounds like you have a which Attacker problem. It's a good idea for Buzzwole to go at it. Lycanroc is bench moving support. (That being the case, don't play Guzma.)
Your draw problem can be easily fixed. If you play Octopus Prime (AKA Octillery) than you shouldn't have a hand size lower than 5. Also, PoT (puzzle of time) has a deck reordering effect you can use if you choose to play one at a time. Reordering the top 3 cards of your deck might make your draw support come two turns early.
Also, you play 4 PoT, right? In that case, it should be easy to just Sycamore everything away because with PoT, everything in your discard pile can be brought back.

If you aren't winning with this deck, change it up.
 
Seastrome said:
I'm currently 4-7 with an exact copy of Azuls list. And I want to try to play this deck more but this is a pure netdeck and i'm 4-7 with it which discourages me even further. My friend took it to a regionals and went 0-5-1 with it. My friend went 4-4-1 with Bulu in EXPANDED at his first regionals so he's not that bad. I just question the deck really.
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Over/through my competitive game-playing experience (15+ years), I've noticed time and time again that some players copy decks that others successfully ran and "hoped" that they would achieve similar winning results/outcomes.... It just doesn't happen that way for a number of reasons, most of which were cited already above; but in addition, players design and build decks that "should" fit their play-style and tactics; these attributes could be different than yours. Further, don't forget that the tournament dynamics (e.g., player population size, number of "good" players competing, decks played, "hot" decks that week vs. counters, match-ups, etc.) change from one tournament to the next.

IMO, should you copy a deck used by an accomplished player, "tweak it" to fit your play-style and tactics; test, test, test; play well at the next tournament; and not worry about the things you cannot control.
 
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