How would the Format be Different if Rare Candy was Never Errata'd?

I

Inigo Montoya

Hatman/Imakuni?/Not Not-TDL
Member
I know this isn't where I usually post, but hey, gotta stay updated with the TCG sometimes.

So, I played a game using MD-on cards and rules recently for fun and I thought to myself, 'I wonder what the format would be like if Rare Candy was never nerfed?' So, this thread came about.

I personally think that we would have a lot more Stage 2's in the format. All Stage 2 decks would get signifigantly higher plays. Magneboar, Gothitelle, and Tyram even more than they already are played. Those big HP Basics would still get play and hype (Reshiram, Zekrom, etc.), but would be played a little less than what they are now. The Meta, imo, would definatly benefit from this. It would sort of drive the basics out of our meta a little bit and give it a little more diversity. Stage 2 decks would have much faster setup rates. But maybe it'd be bad for the meta, who knows?

I'd like to hear your opinions. Discuss!

edit: oh lookie 4300 posts
 
Honestly, I think it would make googlebox and Gothitelle too OP. Even Magneboar and Yanzone and such would be much harder to beat. They can stand up to the Stage 1/big basic decks as they are now, so I don't think a change is necessary.

I think the main reason for lack of variety is, as said in some other thread by some other guy, the lack of Pokemon-based draw. If we had Uxie or Claydol, those types of decks would be infinitely more consistent, and decks like Gengar would probably have a chance. It's just too hard to swarm Stage 2's without that kind of stuff. I don't think the lack of variety or Stage 2's comes directly from the Rare Candy nerf, although that obviously contributed to it a little.
 
I would still be having a field day in unlimited format with my Garchomp deck.

Donks.
Donks everywhere.
 
That was me.

Anyway. I'd say the rare candy issue is actually a mix between it and pokemon Catcher. All basics have at least one turn to be KO'ed when on the bench, and this is made worse by disruption cards like N or Judge, which can shut down the candy/stage 2 in hand. If Pokemon Catcher wasn't in the format, it wouldn't be as bad, but like Celebi stated about my own statement, like of consistent, universal draw, makes it much harder to get stage 2s out quickly. If you don't believe that, try running 2009 Worlds Speedrill without Claydol, and see how long it takes. Then take out BTS.
 
As much as I want to say Gothitelle would be a beast with it, it's still too slow to set up properly. Even with the DCE, Madkinesis only pulls off 50 (assuming turn two sees the player put down a Goth and get it ready). It'd have to rely too much on Jirachi/Shaymin/energy discard in order to do that, and honestly, that provides a bit too much clutter and luck for my liking in a straightforward deck like Gothitelle.
 
^Gothitelle couldn't care less how much damage it's doing to the opponent. Once it has Reuniclus out, it's going to win eventually. A one-way trainer lock before your opponent even gets the chance to play trainers is devastating any way you look at it.
 
Well there would probably be deck in the format that weren't Zekrom, Resharim, Tornadus, Kyurem, and Cobolion...

It probably needed a nerf, but I think they went too far. Maybe they should have prevented rare candying on the first turn for either player, but then let you same turn rare candy on all other turns.
 
I used to think the best nerf would have been what it had before. You can't play the card if it's the first turn of the game. After google discovered The Truth, and Gothitelle came into the format, I think that would have been too OP that way.

And it's not like the only decks are big basics. They're the easiest to play, but they are not the top decks out there. They're just most popular.
 
Not-TDL said:
I personally think that we would have a lot more Stage 2's in the format. All Stage 2 decks would get signifigantly higher plays. Magneboar, Gothitelle, and Tyram even more than they already are played. Those big HP Basics would still get play and hype (Reshiram, Zekrom, etc.), but would be played a little less than what they are now. The Meta, imo, would definatly benefit from this. It would sort of drive the basics out of our meta a little bit and give it a little more diversity. Stage 2 decks would have much faster setup rates. But maybe it'd be bad for the meta, who knows?
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The problem is that even If Rare Candy was never errata'd, we would still be dealing with Pokemon Catcher hindering the competitiveness of Stage 2's in the current format cause they can still Catcher whatever you're going to use Candy on whether it be Litwick, Tepig, or even Magnemite. Sure Stage 2's would have much faster setup rates but like amisheskimoninja mentioned before we also need a Pokemon in the current format with Take Out to "balance" the equation but on a Stage 2 like Machamp SF possibly, maybe even on a Stage 1.

So what's the problem? Half or at least two thirds of the current format is ran by Basic Pokemon and that would sort of drastically change it and thus make the upcoming Pokemon ex in Black/White: Next Destinies pointless to run. Sure people might complain that their Pokemon ex and their Dragons become Collection fodder over playability but at least players who want to see their Stage 2's see more competitive play as much as Stage 1's rejoice with glee. I'd love to see more than 7-8 main Stage 2's seeing play in HGSS-On but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
 
Card Slinger J said:
The problem is that even If Rare Candy was never errata'd, we would still be dealing with Pokemon Catcher hindering the competitiveness of Stage 2's in the current format cause they can still Catcher whatever you're going to use Candy on whether it be Litwick, Tepig, or even Magnemite. Sure Stage 2's would have much faster setup rates but like amisheskimoninja mentioned before we also need a Pokemon in the current format with Take Out to "balance" the equation but on a Stage 2 like Machamp SF possibly, maybe even on a Stage 1.

So what's the problem? Half or at least two thirds of the current format is ran by Basic Pokemon and that would sort of drastically change it and thus make the upcoming Pokemon ex in Black/White: Next Destinies pointless to run. Sure people might complain that their Pokemon ex and their Dragons become Collection fodder over playability but at least players who want to see their Stage 2's see more competitive play as much as Stage 1's rejoice with glee. I'd love to see more than 7-8 main Stage 2's seeing play in HGSS-On but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Click to expand...

Stage 2s are not playable? Gothitelle, Reuniclus, Typhlosion Prime, Vileplume, Vanilluxe, Magnezone Prime, Chandelure, Feraligatr Prime (to an extent) and Emboar (to an extent) all say hi.

Just shut up already about saying how bad Catcher is and how it made the format unplayable. A format always only has a few playable cards in it. HP-on only had Gardevoir and Gallade as playable Stage 2s so you would whine and cry about that? Be thankful that this format already has more than five playable Stage 2s already. I run Typhlosion Reshiram and anything not named Gothitelle I can easily steamroll even without my reliance on Catcher. besides, the Stage 2s we have right now are very powerful and hard to play against. Removing the Candy nerf would be a bad thing and as Celebi said, make Truth/Goth too OP.

A true good player never whines about cards. A true good player finds a way around those cards and use them to their advantage or use people's reliance on them to be their disadvantage. google is a perfect example. He took people's over-reliance of Trainer-Items and bitchslapped everyone in Worlds.
 
While I think there could be an exception to your statement if a really egregious card was made, your point stands true. I've said before, and will say again, pokemon Catcher is, in a really backwards way, a good balancing agent in this format. Stage 2s become risky, but can be very powerful if put online, Goth, Truth, and Magnezone all show that quite well, and Twins makes Pokemon Catcher a little bit more bearable and gives those Stage 2s a chance, just God help you if you don't have a collector by T2 at the lastest, but honestly, since when has that been different?

Back on topic, the errata has frustrated me from time to time, but the format does benefit from it being there. Honestly, a few months ago I would never of believed I said that. Magneboar Donk would be a hilarious thought, however.
 
Brisk Cakers said:
Stage 2s are not playable? Gothitelle, Reuniclus, Typhlosion Prime, Vileplume, Vanilluxe, Magnezone Prime, Chandelure, Feraligatr Prime (to an extent) and Emboar (to an extent) all say hi.
Click to expand...

Yeah but there could be more playable Stage 2's than the one's you mentioned had Rare Candy had never been errata'd. Vanilluxe is mainly playable with Mew Prime which loses to Kyurem's Glaciate, Eviolite doesn't cut it for Mew IMO. Reuniclus and Vileplume are designed to be bench sitters, Chandelure seems to have better potential than Hydreigon, Feraligatr Prime is good with energy acceling Kyurem, and Emboar is still seeing some play interestingly in Magmortar Mill.

Brisk Cakers said:
Just shut up already about saying how bad Catcher is and how it made the format unplayable.
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It didn't make the format unplayable, it made it more favorable to decks relying alot on Basics than Stage 2/Setup decks. Sure Stage 1's and 2's help make the Basics get a huge amount of play but even still Basics are the majority of the time the center of attention when Stage 2's nowadays are mainly used for the Powers/Bodies and Abilities. Gothitelle, Emboar, and Magnezone are an exception to this since they can be used as attackers every now and then.

Brisk Cakers said:
Removing the Candy nerf would be a bad thing and as Celebi said, make Truth/Goth too OP.
Click to expand...

There's an easy solution to this, fix the 1st Turn Rules where it's back to the way it was in DP-On and MD-On where the player going first can't play Trainers, Supporters, and Stadium cards and they can't attack either. It leads to less of a tempo advantage for you or your opponent where both players are on equal footing. Sableye SF was a bad example of this in MD-On though.

Brisk Cakers said:
A true good player never whines about cards. A true good player finds a way around those cards and use them to their advantage or use people's reliance on them to be their disadvantage. google is a perfect example. He took people's over-reliance of Trainer-Items and bitchslapped everyone in Worlds.
Click to expand...

I know I've whined alot about this but I don't like it when people like you talk bad about me. I'm not perfect sure, but at least I try to adapt to what my metagame is running and try to get around it somehow while finding what other people think on the boards about it which you are opposed of. I can't help it If I'm a curious person, I know you're trying to say that people need to rely less on netdecking and more rogue building and it ain't easy. You're only limited to what you have and you just got to make the best of it. :/
 
I honestly get my ideas from the net and think of ways to get around things. I just got too pissed off last night when I was reading the overwhining. Even with the nerf of the 1st turn, it will make going second a need for google/Truth. Trainer lock and non-nerfed Candy should never come together.
 
I get my ideas off the net and think of ways to get around things aside from seeing from what other people think as well, but that doesn't mean you need to be a smart elec about it. I already explained in the "SP Format 3.0" thread I made that I greatly overexaggerated wrongly about the current format and it wasn't as bad as I thought it was. So are we cool Brisk Cakers or should I say Riskbreakers?
 
I was just having a bad day that time and seeing your post really blew my top. I apologize if I showed more hostile behavior than normal but yeah, I don't mean to intentionally fight anyone lol. I'm cool with it. Just trust everyone posting here, Pokemon knows what they are doing. The only stupid thing is the first turn rule.
 
I'm sorry that I blew your top, I didn't realize you had anger issues. I'm glad I went to City Champs last Saturday to see the format for myself, I did thought it was interesting that the Masters Division in my area played 6 Rounds with a Top Cut but I dropped after I lost in the 5th cause I didn't want to risk going 3-3 which would've hurt my record.
 
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