So recently it has been revealed that the printed English card of Onix from the new set Unleashed, has a bit of a different wording than was translated on Pokebeach. With the recent controversy over Sunflora, I wanted to see if the same thing had happened with this card as well. So I look on pokebeach and find a recent update concerning said dilemma:
"Thanks to Bangiras' translations, several of our visitors have pointed out that Onix's Poke-Body is mistranslated. The English card allows you to heal any of your Pokémon by 10 damage when attaching an Energy card to them, but the original card restricted the healing only to Onix, meaning the card will be noticeably more powerful at prereleases. I guess since the set has such stinky cards TPCi decided to amp Onix up a bit, lol. But seriously, I find it a bit funny that one person is able to translate whole Japanese sets at 3 AM in the morning and within only a few hours and is still able to get the cards more correct than the official company. We wuv u Bangiras.
" - Water Pokémon Master, Owner of the site (AKA WPM)
As you can see, this post is very confident in the assumption that their translation is correct and that PCI is the one that mistranslated the card, but doesn't really display any sort of information backing it up. No clarification that they've re-translated the card, no cross referencing with other translators, just that they're right and PCI is wrong. Thinking there is the information is somewhere else on the site, I search and find nothing.
At this point, I post on the thread concerning this update, asking "What is supporting this other than the fact that this person has translated other cards in the past? I don't mean what credentials this person has as a translator, as they're obviously a fine one, I mean what else is supporting that they've made this particular translation correctly."
I get a reply that just gives me the opposite of what I asked, they throw the translator's reputation back at me. I reply saying that there is conflicting information shown, and that more confirmation needs to given other than WPM's belief in Bangiras. I also say that I received outside confirmation from Pokegym, that the translation was correct, and that this was the sort of thing I was asking for.
At this point, WPM chimes in, and calls me annoying. Nothing constructive, nothing to do with the conversation, just simply that, no more, no less. I reply saying he's biased. He replies with "UR UGLY POOPOO HEAD." Now obviously, this was made to make fun of the fact that we're replying to each other like two children, but there's something I still don't quite understand about it. He's the one that started that sort of bickering, so in effect, he was actually ridiculing himself more than me, but I digress.
Laughing at the irony he's just posted, I say "I don't understand what the problem is here. I've been nothing but reasonable approaching this situation. I saw no reason to zealously believe bangiras is right without a doubt, is that so wrong of me? Can't a person be a little skeptic? Or is that such an atrocity to you?"
The same person from before, who told me twice that Bangiras should be trusted based on reputation, said that I was beginning "to sound like one of those people that questions wither or not the moon landing happened." and that I've already stated my opinion. Which told me this person did not have a very good grasp on what I was saying. So I replied about how this is not about opinions, that WPM was being so confident about Bangira's translations being right, and yet displayed no information supporting that her's were correct.
I also posted this in reply to me beginning to seem like a conspirator:
"And I'm sorry if I seem like some sort of conspirator, but this is very simple and logical reasoning. Source A says X, Source B says Y. What is true? Source A has been wrong before, as well as Source B. What is likely now? That Source A is wrong, or that Source B is wrong? Is there any information shown that says one way or the other? No, none at all. Now add a third source, Source C. They say X. What is most likely now? That two separate sources got it wrong, or that Source B got it wrong? It is more likely that Source B got it wrong, since two different sources, who more than likely have no bias for or against each other, both said the same thing."
And at the end of this post I apologized if I had offended anybody by doing this, but that I wasn't going to take Bangira's word at an undisputable level.
WPM comes back, simply says "I feel like we're talking to a wall...", I reply with "The feeling is mutual." I check a few minutes later, and I'm banned for a month, no warning, no explanation other three words listed in the Ban Reason "Take a Break". I also see that a moderator, PMJ, has posted this, and I quote "Sabett is 100% correct, what's the issue here?". A few minutes later, the post is deleted.
The following day someone posts this:
"I do agree with Sabett, really. I do trust Bangiras, of course, but she's not always right - nor is TPCi, obviously.
Now that we know there's a mistranslation, I'd be grateful if Bangiras double-checked her translation. (Anybody could make mistakes at 3 AM in the morning, right?)
...If she hasn't already done so, that is. x3"
To which WPM, who miraculously posts with ten fold the words he had written in reply to me in the entirety of the thread, this:
"Name one time she has not been right with a card translation. Sure there's an error here or there sometimes when we're up at 3 AM in the morning downloading the scans and rushing through them, but they're always corrected within at least a day. As for Sunflora, that was a typo, not a mistranslation. She knew what the card did and her translation skills were not in question - it was just presented wrong and missed when proofreading the cards. I've never, ever seen Bangiras get a card translation wrong and I would know better than anyone since I get all the complaints about everything. Not once. Ever. I have 100% faith in her card translations.
And do you really think I would be stupid enough to say the Onix card is wrong without first checking with Bangiras? Well I didn't even have to, because she knew the second I posted it and double-checked her translation. It's not even a complicated translation... I could do it with Babelfish. Have more faith in the people who have been running this website for almost seven years now to know we have more than enough common sense to handle things like this. I mean it's fine to question things sometimes, but causing drama over a single basic card? Do you really think we lack common sense to not double-check the translation before posting about it? I'm a little offended.
Bangiras is da best in da business, that's all there is to it. There has never been a TCG translator in the Pokémon community like her and I've been here since the Base Set / Jungle days. It's too bad TPCi doesn't hire her... she can translate whole sets in a few hours, under pressure, and while half-asleep... she's like ten people in one!"
At this point, a few things are key to point out here. I had obviously stated, as a fact, that Bangira's has translated something wrong before. I'm not saying I'm right and he's wrong, I'm saying I stated it as if it were the truth, that Bangira's mistranslated Sunflora, but only when a poster, other than myself assumes such a thing, does WPM find it in himself to correct this person's assumption. I hadn't known that it was a typo, and that was obvious from the way I posted. Also, he is verifying in this post that the translation has been checked once again to confirm it, which he hadn't posted before, or made in an update that this had been done. He calls it common sense to assume that the translation has been double checked, however at the same turn you could say it would be common sense to post all information that could confirm what you say when it's brought into question.
Now to get to the heart of this post, the banning. I've posted the forum rules of pokebeach, who were made by WPM, at the bottom of this post, and I would like to point out the two rules that are the only things I can twist and stretch to say I've broken.
6. Do not offend others
Do not bash, insult, or cuss in your posts or to other members. If a post is highly offensive, as deemed by any moderator, the offender will be permanently account and IP banned so that there will be no access to this forum. Violators will receive a warning.
Technically, yes, I did insult a person on the forum, once, when I called WPM "biased" after he called me "annoying". One, this is hardly an insult, two, WPM also insulted me, and with something on a more offensive level, three, I received NO WARNING from WPM or any moderator, which is only fine if I've highly offended someone, which I don't really think I did, I'm also not IP banned.
7. Do not spam
Spamming is one of the most common offenses. Internet forum spam is defined by Wikipedia as "the posting of advertisements, abusive, or unneeded messages on Internet forums." On our forum, abusive messages are called "flaming," and advertising is simply advertising. Our forum regards spam as unneeded messages. An example of spam would be something irrelevant to the topic, or a simple "hi there ur cool i like your deck". Spamming includes posting "Favorite" threads ("What's your favorite _____?") and meaningless topics. No intelligent discussion can come from a SPAM topic. Violators will receive a warning.
I'm sure WPM could see my question Bangira's translation as an "unneeded message", the problem this however is that "You're so annoying." and "UR UGLY POOPOO HEAD." aren't exactly good examples for others to follow in order not to spam, also there is no clause here that says there is any action taken before a warning, which I did not receive.
At this point in time, I have emailed WPM several times, and even another moderator, asking as to why I've been banned, and how I was supposed to avoid it. That was a week ago, and received no reply from either person.
Here I am, a week later, no reply and no explanation. So now, please, I beg you, how were these actions justified?
"Thanks to Bangiras' translations, several of our visitors have pointed out that Onix's Poke-Body is mistranslated. The English card allows you to heal any of your Pokémon by 10 damage when attaching an Energy card to them, but the original card restricted the healing only to Onix, meaning the card will be noticeably more powerful at prereleases. I guess since the set has such stinky cards TPCi decided to amp Onix up a bit, lol. But seriously, I find it a bit funny that one person is able to translate whole Japanese sets at 3 AM in the morning and within only a few hours and is still able to get the cards more correct than the official company. We wuv u Bangiras.
" - Water Pokémon Master, Owner of the site (AKA WPM)As you can see, this post is very confident in the assumption that their translation is correct and that PCI is the one that mistranslated the card, but doesn't really display any sort of information backing it up. No clarification that they've re-translated the card, no cross referencing with other translators, just that they're right and PCI is wrong. Thinking there is the information is somewhere else on the site, I search and find nothing.
At this point, I post on the thread concerning this update, asking "What is supporting this other than the fact that this person has translated other cards in the past? I don't mean what credentials this person has as a translator, as they're obviously a fine one, I mean what else is supporting that they've made this particular translation correctly."
I get a reply that just gives me the opposite of what I asked, they throw the translator's reputation back at me. I reply saying that there is conflicting information shown, and that more confirmation needs to given other than WPM's belief in Bangiras. I also say that I received outside confirmation from Pokegym, that the translation was correct, and that this was the sort of thing I was asking for.
At this point, WPM chimes in, and calls me annoying. Nothing constructive, nothing to do with the conversation, just simply that, no more, no less. I reply saying he's biased. He replies with "UR UGLY POOPOO HEAD." Now obviously, this was made to make fun of the fact that we're replying to each other like two children, but there's something I still don't quite understand about it. He's the one that started that sort of bickering, so in effect, he was actually ridiculing himself more than me, but I digress.
Laughing at the irony he's just posted, I say "I don't understand what the problem is here. I've been nothing but reasonable approaching this situation. I saw no reason to zealously believe bangiras is right without a doubt, is that so wrong of me? Can't a person be a little skeptic? Or is that such an atrocity to you?"
The same person from before, who told me twice that Bangiras should be trusted based on reputation, said that I was beginning "to sound like one of those people that questions wither or not the moon landing happened." and that I've already stated my opinion. Which told me this person did not have a very good grasp on what I was saying. So I replied about how this is not about opinions, that WPM was being so confident about Bangira's translations being right, and yet displayed no information supporting that her's were correct.
I also posted this in reply to me beginning to seem like a conspirator:
"And I'm sorry if I seem like some sort of conspirator, but this is very simple and logical reasoning. Source A says X, Source B says Y. What is true? Source A has been wrong before, as well as Source B. What is likely now? That Source A is wrong, or that Source B is wrong? Is there any information shown that says one way or the other? No, none at all. Now add a third source, Source C. They say X. What is most likely now? That two separate sources got it wrong, or that Source B got it wrong? It is more likely that Source B got it wrong, since two different sources, who more than likely have no bias for or against each other, both said the same thing."
And at the end of this post I apologized if I had offended anybody by doing this, but that I wasn't going to take Bangira's word at an undisputable level.
WPM comes back, simply says "I feel like we're talking to a wall...", I reply with "The feeling is mutual." I check a few minutes later, and I'm banned for a month, no warning, no explanation other three words listed in the Ban Reason "Take a Break". I also see that a moderator, PMJ, has posted this, and I quote "Sabett is 100% correct, what's the issue here?". A few minutes later, the post is deleted.
The following day someone posts this:
"I do agree with Sabett, really. I do trust Bangiras, of course, but she's not always right - nor is TPCi, obviously.
Now that we know there's a mistranslation, I'd be grateful if Bangiras double-checked her translation. (Anybody could make mistakes at 3 AM in the morning, right?)
...If she hasn't already done so, that is. x3"
To which WPM, who miraculously posts with ten fold the words he had written in reply to me in the entirety of the thread, this:
"Name one time she has not been right with a card translation. Sure there's an error here or there sometimes when we're up at 3 AM in the morning downloading the scans and rushing through them, but they're always corrected within at least a day. As for Sunflora, that was a typo, not a mistranslation. She knew what the card did and her translation skills were not in question - it was just presented wrong and missed when proofreading the cards. I've never, ever seen Bangiras get a card translation wrong and I would know better than anyone since I get all the complaints about everything. Not once. Ever. I have 100% faith in her card translations.
And do you really think I would be stupid enough to say the Onix card is wrong without first checking with Bangiras? Well I didn't even have to, because she knew the second I posted it and double-checked her translation. It's not even a complicated translation... I could do it with Babelfish. Have more faith in the people who have been running this website for almost seven years now to know we have more than enough common sense to handle things like this. I mean it's fine to question things sometimes, but causing drama over a single basic card? Do you really think we lack common sense to not double-check the translation before posting about it? I'm a little offended.
Bangiras is da best in da business, that's all there is to it. There has never been a TCG translator in the Pokémon community like her and I've been here since the Base Set / Jungle days. It's too bad TPCi doesn't hire her... she can translate whole sets in a few hours, under pressure, and while half-asleep... she's like ten people in one!"
At this point, a few things are key to point out here. I had obviously stated, as a fact, that Bangira's has translated something wrong before. I'm not saying I'm right and he's wrong, I'm saying I stated it as if it were the truth, that Bangira's mistranslated Sunflora, but only when a poster, other than myself assumes such a thing, does WPM find it in himself to correct this person's assumption. I hadn't known that it was a typo, and that was obvious from the way I posted. Also, he is verifying in this post that the translation has been checked once again to confirm it, which he hadn't posted before, or made in an update that this had been done. He calls it common sense to assume that the translation has been double checked, however at the same turn you could say it would be common sense to post all information that could confirm what you say when it's brought into question.
Now to get to the heart of this post, the banning. I've posted the forum rules of pokebeach, who were made by WPM, at the bottom of this post, and I would like to point out the two rules that are the only things I can twist and stretch to say I've broken.
6. Do not offend others
Do not bash, insult, or cuss in your posts or to other members. If a post is highly offensive, as deemed by any moderator, the offender will be permanently account and IP banned so that there will be no access to this forum. Violators will receive a warning.
Technically, yes, I did insult a person on the forum, once, when I called WPM "biased" after he called me "annoying". One, this is hardly an insult, two, WPM also insulted me, and with something on a more offensive level, three, I received NO WARNING from WPM or any moderator, which is only fine if I've highly offended someone, which I don't really think I did, I'm also not IP banned.
7. Do not spam
Spamming is one of the most common offenses. Internet forum spam is defined by Wikipedia as "the posting of advertisements, abusive, or unneeded messages on Internet forums." On our forum, abusive messages are called "flaming," and advertising is simply advertising. Our forum regards spam as unneeded messages. An example of spam would be something irrelevant to the topic, or a simple "hi there ur cool i like your deck". Spamming includes posting "Favorite" threads ("What's your favorite _____?") and meaningless topics. No intelligent discussion can come from a SPAM topic. Violators will receive a warning.
I'm sure WPM could see my question Bangira's translation as an "unneeded message", the problem this however is that "You're so annoying." and "UR UGLY POOPOO HEAD." aren't exactly good examples for others to follow in order not to spam, also there is no clause here that says there is any action taken before a warning, which I did not receive.
At this point in time, I have emailed WPM several times, and even another moderator, asking as to why I've been banned, and how I was supposed to avoid it. That was a week ago, and received no reply from either person.
Here I am, a week later, no reply and no explanation. So now, please, I beg you, how were these actions justified?
