Help I Just Can't Win Consistently With Volcanion and it's Depressing.

[StevenM]

Idk what to do because that's the deck I started out with a month ago. Before Guardians Rising, I was winning 60% of games (most of which were without Elixirs, Shaymins), which is tournament worthy. I just can't seem to strike the right combo of cards for a consistent Volcanion deck right now. It draws dead a lot for me. And Turtonator doesn't help most often. It's easy for the opponent to play around regarding Shell Trap. Never have been able to pull off it's GX attack.

I also run into the dilemma of not having bench space for the Hoopa or Shaymins, and to fill my bench with Volcanions. On one hand, Sky Field is great for that, but Scorched earth can help give me draw power. And I also run into the problem of having too many items which makes Garb an auto loss.

I tell myself there is Darkrai, but who am I kidding? It plays sorta the same way so i'd likely be the same way. I have never been to a locals or anything but i want to have a deck i can feel good with and win with. It's very frustrating.

 

[Hansel]

I would just start playing at your local tournaments. You learn a lot, even from losing, especially if you tell people you are new most people are happy to chat about pokemon between rounds.

I got my first shaymin as part of a trade for a SUM Secret Rare Ultra Ball and have been playing since Steam Siege came out. For fun I was playing volcanion EX just with hoopa EX, but it was always too slow, but I had fun, learned a lot, and if I wasn't playing Greninja the whole time I would have probably bought some shaymins earlier. At this point I would just hold out and stick with Tapu Lele for anyone new to pokemon, Though you probably wouldn't lose more than $10-20 each if you bought them now and traded them after rotation (or play expanded)

TLDR, with no shaymins play Greninja

 

[21times]

So Volc is having a tough time right now because Water box decks are very popular and it's extremely vulnerable to Garb. This is something inherent in Pokemon. It's always changing. Especially with these amazingly influential expansions this year, the game has changed quite a bit. We had a very stale meta from September through February and now the pendulum has swung the other way.

 

[StevenM]

So Volc is having a tough time right now because Water box decks are very popular and it's extremely vulnerable to Garb. This is something inherent in Pokemon. It's always changing. Especially with these amazingly influential expansions this year, the game has changed quite a bit. We had a very stale meta from September through February and now the pendulum has swung the other way.

This is all true from what I have found but can Volcanion still manage to overcome these things? I'd love to use the deck as I literally just got the deck completed not long ago.

 

[Vivek]

So are you saying that your Volcanion build is not consistent enough for you to win or you are facing water types way too much ?

If it's former, then there is something wrong with your build cause Volcanion is the most consistent deck right now.
For later, it's nothing you can do. Every deck have bad match ups. But even though you are weak to water, I think the speed of Volcanion can overcome that issue.

 

[totodile_it_down]

Brooklet Hill is your friend.

 

[Draskk]

What I always do for any deck that I'm interested in is go look at the most recent list that's done well at tournaments (IK there aren't any competitive Volc lists post-GRI yet, wait until next tournament after the Garb hype has died down), and then edit the list a little bit with some techs or more draw support or whatnot, and then go into Versus mode on TCGO and do some crash testing. I never would want to copy a list directly as it takes a big chunk of the fun out of it for me (And sometimes I just flat-out disagree with some of the cards/counts), but hey, you could if you want. Also, with Volc as theyre aren't any post-GRI competitive lists yet, look at the lists from the past format and incorporate some obvious things like Turtonator and Field Blower, and then go crash test. Also, it sounds alot like your list may not be the most consistent based one what your saying, maybe post your list on here and we can help in more detail. If you're worried about Garb, try dropping Trainer's Mail for higher draw supporter counts, I've found thats a great start. Also, Max Elixir isn't a hugely nessescary thing for Volc anyways, try dropping you're count of it to two if it wasn't already there. I've been running 2 Lele 4 N 4 Sycamore 1 Lillie/Brigette over trainer's mail as Garb-proofing and I think it's more consistent than when I used T-Mail in the first place. Anyways, I hope this is helpful

 

[DashKing]

Volcanion is a deck that requires some practice (i.e. when to use steam ups, when to go in etc), so don't be discouraged! Keep trying to get the deck to work! So advice I would give is don't tech unless your list is consistent enough to [play specific cards for matchups. (NOTE: If you have Tapu Lele this is a deck I would play it in)

 

[F4H_Jay]

Just takes a lot of effort and play testing to find out what works against different decks.

 

[StevenM]

What I always do for any deck that I'm interested in is go look at the most recent list that's done well at tournaments (IK there aren't any competitive Volc lists post-GRI yet, wait until next tournament after the Garb hype has died down), and then edit the list a little bit with some techs or more draw support or whatnot, and then go into Versus mode on TCGO and do some crash testing. I never would want to copy a list directly as it takes a big chunk of the fun out of it for me (And sometimes I just flat-out disagree with some of the cards/counts), but hey, you could if you want. Also, with Volc as theyre aren't any post-GRI competitive lists yet, look at the lists from the past format and incorporate some obvious things like Turtonator and Field Blower, and then go crash test. Also, it sounds alot like your list may not be the most consistent based one what your saying, maybe post your list on here and we can help in more detail. If you're worried about Garb, try dropping Trainer's Mail for higher draw supporter counts, I've found thats a great start. Also, Max Elixir isn't a hugely nessescary thing for Volc anyways, try dropping you're count of it to two if it wasn't already there. I've been running 2 Lele 4 N 4 Sycamore 1 Lillie/Brigette over trainer's mail as Garb-proofing and I think it's more consistent than when I used T-Mail in the first place. Anyways, I hope this is helpful

I do play something similar to that, although I don't have Lele's just yet. People say to run Brooklet Hill over Scorched Earth and some recommend Altar of the Sunne. Idk. Brooklet Hill sounds nice but could help my opponent too, especially if they run water.

A big part of my beef with the deck is being able to WIN vs Gyarados, Greninja, etc water decks. Yeah, it's a bad matchup but other decks have bad matchups but find ways to deal with them. Can't find anything so far for Volcanion though. :/

 

[Draskk]

I do play something similar to that, although I don't have Lele's just yet. People say to run Brooklet Hill over Scorched Earth and some recommend Altar of the Sunne. Idk. Brooklet Hill sounds nice but could help my opponent too, especially if they run water.

A big part of my beef with the deck is being able to WIN vs Gyarados, Greninja, etc water decks. Yeah, it's a bad matchup but other decks have bad matchups but find ways to deal with them. Can't find anything so far for Volcanion though. :/

As for the Stadium cards, if you go Scorched Earth you can run a Mallow or two, so that at the cost of a Fire energy you get two of any cards you want. This is great for when you're looking for just a card or two. Also, if you're looking to get Volcanions out fast, just use Hoopa or Brigette. I wouldn't recommend running Brooklet Hill just to get Volcanions out a little faster when you can just drop a Hoopa and get three. Sky Field is good in Volc as it needs lots of bench space, so I would recommend something like a 2/2 or 3/1 split of Scorched Earth and Sky Field for your Stadium cards. As for how to win against water, you just have to outspeed them. I've fought Volc with Alolan Ninetales, for example, and the Volcanion player just blasts right off while you're trying to set things up. Usually I come back later on but if I miss like a single Blizzard Edge I pretty much lose. As for Gyarados, Gyarados would one shot you anyways tbh. It's just not a favorable matchup, especially as they out trade you. I'm not quite sure what you could do about Gyarados except hope that it dies which it will because it's about to be rotated. Greninja is alot like Ninetales in that you have to outspeed it. If you let them get a single BREAK on the field you pretty much lose. Try to get everything down T1 so you're ready to start knocking down Froakies. When they try to load up a BREAK on the bench just Lysandre it, and then you can just shut them down by VS Seekering it again and they'll be pretty much done.

 

[StevenM]

As for the Stadium cards, if you go Scorched Earth you can run a Mallow or two, so that at the cost of a Fire energy you get two of any cards you want. This is great for when you're looking for just a card or two. Also, if you're looking to get Volcanions out fast, just use Hoopa or Brigette. I wouldn't recommend running Brooklet Hill just to get Volcanions out a little faster when you can just drop a Hoopa and get three. Sky Field is good in Volc as it needs lots of bench space, so I would recommend something like a 2/2 or 3/1 split of Scorched Earth and Sky Field for your Stadium cards. As for how to win against water, you just have to outspeed them. I've fought Volc with Alolan Ninetales, for example, and the Volcanion player just blasts right off while you're trying to set things up. Usually I come back later on but if I miss like a single Blizzard Edge I pretty much lose. As for Gyarados, Gyarados would one shot you anyways tbh. It's just not a favorable matchup, especially as they out trade you. I'm not quite sure what you could do about Gyarados except hope that it dies which it will because it's about to be rotated. Greninja is alot like Ninetales in that you have to outspeed it. If you let them get a single BREAK on the field you pretty much lose. Try to get everything down T1 so you're ready to start knocking down Froakies. When they try to load up a BREAK on the bench just Lysandre it, and then you can just shut them down by VS Seekering it again and they'll be pretty much done.

Yeah, I keep running into Greninja and Gyarados online so I guess i'm just done with Volcanion. The deck is essentially dead. If you play fewer items, you're not fast enough to deal with water decks. But if you run too many items, you lose to Garb. It's not an ideal situation and I've even asked the Volcanion player who won the Internationals a bit ago. He echoed my sentiment which doesn't help my desire to try to make the deck work.

Not sure where to go from here. Maybe Darkrai since I have most of the cards for it?

 

[Draskk]

Yeah, I keep running into Greninja and Gyarados online so I guess i'm just done with Volcanion. The deck is essentially dead. If you play fewer items, you're not fast enough to deal with water decks. But if you run too many items, you lose to Garb. It's not an ideal situation and I've even asked the Volcanion player who won the Internationals a bit ago. He echoed my sentiment which doesn't help my desire to try to make the deck work.

Not sure where to go from here. Maybe Darkrai since I have most of the cards for it?

Nope. Darkrai died in the same way Volcanion did: Garbodor. Drampa with a band OHKOs Darkrai no problem and Field Blower gets rid of Belts and Exp Shares. Your best bet would be to either migrate to Garbodor itself or build something that kills it, like Umbreon GX/Zoroark or something that trades with it like Vespiquen or Gyarados. Gl!

 

[StevenM]

Nope. Darkrai died in the same way Volcanion did: Garbodor. Drampa with a band OHKOs Darkrai no problem and Field Blower gets rid of Belts and Exp Shares. Your best bet would be to either migrate to Garbodor itself or build something that kills it, like Umbreon GX/Zoroark or something that trades with it like Vespiquen or Gyarados. Gl!

Trevenant/Garb/Drampa?

 

[Draskk]

Trevenant/Garb/Drampa?

I'd just use Garb/Drampa. Trevenant/Garb went to Seattle and didnt do too well, I think it took like 48th or something way back like that. You could try it but, imo, it's one of those decks that seems great on paper but doesn't actually do that well. If you go Drampa/Garb, here's a list I put together a while ago, modify it as you like. (Warning: This has never been tested, but it's gone through the forums and multiple iterations over the past few days and I think it's a very solid list.):

Pokemon (16):

3x Drampa-GX
1x Tapu Koko SM30 (I'm including a counter to Gyarados as it does give the deck a bit of a hard time. Also can take some K.Os Drampa or Garb barely missed.)
1x Oricorio GRI56 (No dont do this save the Bees! Lol jk, jk. Vespiquen is gaining again and its an even worse matchup for Drampa/Garb than Gyarados as at least Magma's Base stays inplay.)
3x Tapu Lele GX (Could probably be dropped to two if you dont have enough, but if you have none you're gonna have to get a little creative.)
3x Garbodor Trashalanche
1x Garbodor Garbotoxin
4x Trubbish

Trainers (34):

4x Sycamore
4x N
1x Lillie (Could also be Hala if you plan on using Big Wheel alot.)
2x Lysandre
1x Brigette (Gets around Magma's Base if you need to.)
4x Ultra Ball
4x VS Seeker
2x Float Stone
1x Super Rod
2x Rescue Stretcher
2x Field Blower
3x Choice Band
4x Team Magma's Secret Base

Energy (10):

6x Basic Psychic Energy
4x Double Colorless Energy

Good luck finding a new deck, I know how hard it is when your main deck dies. It's too bad, Volcanion had a lot to gain with Turtonator but it looks like Garb will just smash it.

 

[Fayld]

Nope. Darkrai died in the same way Volcanion did: Garbodor. Drampa with a band OHKOs Darkrai no problem and Field Blower gets rid of Belts and Exp Shares. Your best bet would be to either migrate to Garbodor itself or build something that kills it, like Umbreon GX/Zoroark or something that trades with it like Vespiquen or Gyarados. Gl!

Disagree with this. Darkrai isn't dead at all. You just have to alter the list. It isn't as explosively fast, but the entire meta is no longer as explosively fast, so that isn't an issue. Field Blower is way overrated as far as stopping the Exp Shares as well. The Darkrai deck I am running plays 4 Exp Share and 4 Choice Band. It is extremely common for me to have a full bench filled with enough Exp Share that you literally can't get them all with one field blower. Another perk is that Darkrai has Psychic resistance. That plays huge in a lot of games I play against Garbodor lists. I won't sit here and say that the list is perfect or nearly as good as the original Turbo Darkrai lists were, but it also plays quite well against Garbodor. It gets absolutely murdered by Lapras, but that is about the only truly bad match up it has and even that isn't horrific. Everything else is doable.

I do happen to prefer Umbreon / Zoroark over my Darkrai list, but that is more personal preference rather than saying anything about which list is better. I think Darkrai is far and away the easier list to play effectively and that matters.

Edit: If you are seeing a lot of Greninja lists, Umbreon / Zoroark isn't for you either BTW. Greninja pretty much owns this match up. I have played against Umbreon using Greninja and I have played against Greninja playing Umbreon. If Greninja sets up at all, you lose. Without exception.

 

[StevenM]

Yeah, idk what I want to do. I just bought the cards for Volcanion too... I don't want to keep shelling out money for decks that will turn out to be not as great. Maybe that sounds dumb but i'm not made of money so i'm looking for a deck I can make, that's cheap, and will be around for years. If Garb is a flash in the pan, then it may not be worth making.

I like the Volcanion playstyle and prefer a deck that plays like that. I am sorry if i come off the wrong way. I had high hopes for this Volcanion deck...

 

[TheGuardian118]

You should post your deck if you haven't already. Volcanion is a relatively tight list, there's a small amount of variation, but you really need your Shaymin/Hoopa in order to get things set up quickly enough. I haven't had the same experience you have with having trouble with Volcanion so I'm curious what your list looks like. Part of it does rely on your local meta, but in mine Volcanion is still doing well. If you are missing key consistency/speed cards like the Elixirs and Shaymin then you will most likely struggle, which it sounds like might be the issue. It will be hard to play without Shaymin, and since rotation will take Shaymin out of Standard I understand not picking it up, but Lele will be it's replacement so you'll want to grab those.

 

[fkndrk]

You want a deck that lasts years? nice.

 

[StevenM]

You should post your deck if you haven't already. Volcanion is a relatively tight list, there's a small amount of variation, but you really need your Shaymin/Hoopa in order to get things set up quickly enough. I haven't had the same experience you have with having trouble with Volcanion so I'm curious what your list looks like. Part of it does rely on your local meta, but in mine Volcanion is still doing well. If you are missing key consistency/speed cards like the Elixirs and Shaymin then you will most likely struggle, which it sounds like might be the issue. It will be hard to play without Shaymin, and since rotation will take Shaymin out of Standard I understand not picking it up, but Lele will be it's replacement so you'll want to grab those.

I use basically what most lists do. All I am truly missing from mine is 1 Shaymin and that's it. I have everything else. A big issue that I am having (online) is that I am running into lots of Gyarados, Greninja, and Waterbox decks that Volcanion struggles with. I have cut down on items due to Garbador but the problem is now i'm slower against decks like the water decks that I need to be faster than. That's my dilemma. Either way, i'm going to be weak to something to the point where it's nearly an auto loss.