I wanna point this out about big money cards

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Bullet

Bullet

Human Pipe Bomb
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I havent seen it on this site, but then again I havent looked either.

But what is the possibility of people claiming to have things like All 3 pikachu trophies from 1999 that either these people are lying or the boot leg/fake card problem even goes as far to these particular cards? Its bad enough I am beginning to see a few 1st Edition Base Charizards on ebay that is potentially fake.

One of the problems is cards like Pikachu Trophies, Illustrator, and all was impossible to ever find in 1999-2000, I must say what is going to make me believe these cards seem to be popping up in sets of 3 now when they never were popping up when they first came out?

One guy on Pojo has a picture of all 3 with 2 of them being Gem Mint 10, that raises a huge red flag for me that their is a very limited amount of these cards in existence and he has 2 of them that grades Gem Mint 10? I am beginning to dig the smell of something foul on alot of this, especially since it seems more of these cards (always in sets of 3) is popping up from traders on the internet than what was originally produced. One even claims to have Illustrator, but I am kind of betting he is just posting pictures claiming he has it while the picture was from some other source.

Here is one of the auctions http://www.ebay.com/itm/Complete-Graded-MINT-98-Pokemon-No-1-Trainer-Trophy-Pikachu-Cards-1998-Prize-/250879672845?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6998020d
This is most likely the same guy on pojo, a no name grading service (not PSA or Beckett) and it has 2 Gem Mint 10 cards. Some grading services have even went as far to not identify fakes including PSA.

The other guy is located on pokegym, if he has those cards or not, doubtful, if its true their is only 3 copies of each card, I am seeing more than that appear in collections.

thoughts?
 
It sounds unreasonable, but you have to think of it this way -- obviously someone has these cards at some point, and in of themselves they're worth nothing. Someone, somewhere in the world has decided the worthless thing you own is worth thousands of dollars and has the means and the will to pay for it. It's more likely than not that things will line up for a transaction to occur. And, of course, one such transaction means other similar transactions are also that much more likely.

How likely is it that the things occurring here are involving fake prints? I don't know how people are handling it, but in the proper art world a record is kept so you can trace the artwork from its current owner through all past owners to the point of origination. If I'm giving someone absurd amounts of cash for a card I'm guessing they've sufficiently proven the authenticity of that card to me.

It really is a scenario beyond something I can imagine. Someone on another community once insisted they'd take out a mortgage to buy an Illustrator card if they ever saw it. I later realized the scale of their collection and I honestly believe that person will do exactly that if the situation ever arises for them. Maybe they already have.


I guess if your suspicion is "why is this all suddenly occurring now after 10 years of relative dormancy?" I guess the owners have it kicking around for five years and then realize 'oh wow I have a card worth a lot of money,' decide to hold on to it a few years figuring it will be worth even more in the longer run, and then word starts to get out who is owning what card, people start making connections, and sales start happening. I'm thinking of it in somewhat of a conspiratorial sense, but in the general sense it can't be that far from the truth.
 
The thing is their is only 2-3 prints of each of those cards recorded, so far I have seen 2 people pop out, 1 on pojo, 1 on pokegym that lay claim to having them, 1 on pojo have pictures and video, 1 on pokegym has pics and also claims to have a illustrator.

What really gets my bubble is they dont have 1 of them, they got the entire set. Plus the one on pojo are you going to tell me he sent in all 3 of them to some no name grading company after most likely paying thousands for the cards? perhaps he wasnt the one who sent them in, all I know is these cards was awarded in Japan on and I would believe the ones there who got them knows exactly what they got.

But yeah I know someone has to have those cards at some point, but their is also more people with them than what was printed, so something is not right some where.

As for Illustrator, I dont know, its suppose to be the holy grail of Pokemon Cards but I believe the amount of them printed had to be close to 50 copies, far more than the Trophy cards. I actually heard someone in Texas wanting to trade an Illustrator one time not long after it came out, but Pika trophies.....none. They never popped up into existence until last couple of years or so, ironically same time I started spotting what I think could be boot leg base 1st edition charizards and other rare cards to, they are well made to where you cannot tell the different hardly.
 
I'm sure it is in the realm of possibility to have a complete set. Suppose this EBay guy is legitimate -- $5000 per each card and then tries to flip them at $20K to make a very clean profit. Once he made one purchase it wouldn't have been too hard to find the other two; word gets around to you eventually if you have something a rich person wants.

As far as more people claiming to have it than prints exist, I'm sure there are liars. Some people are natural liars, some people have incentive to lie for attention or advertising. Advertising in the sense that an EBay member could set a large price for this set of cards he doesn't have and figure no one will ever come forth anyways, and in the meanwhile people seeing those cards also look around at other cards on sale he actually owns and he can sell those. If someone does come forth, no big deal to brush them off. I think a sale like this would occur through private channels rather than EBay, anyways. At the same time it doesn't feel impossible it's legitimate.

I figure for all these hyper-rare cards, four prints exist, I'm sure one or two of them met an unfortunate fate in the hands of young children whether it went through the wash and just plain isn't presentable, bent outright -- but they can't all be in 9/10 condition. It really is unlikely all of them are in mint condition, so something's obviously up when five people are claiming to own mint condition prints of a card of which only four exist anyways. But I doubt anyone has the nerve to try and fake a print, and I doubt anyone's gotten away selling a fake print. I don't personally know who's claiming to own what and I don't want to handle the burden of calling someone a liar and explaining why, but unless you're interested in buying one yourself, it's completely irrelevant. Let people willing to spend that amount of money on such cards concern themselves with it, and when they come on to forums claiming to own the cards, pay them no attention, because even if they have the genuine article it will hardly ever matter.
 
It is but you have to think about it, if you got money to blow on a set of those cards, plus the guy is also claiming to own 20-30 1st Edition base packs, I question why is he even on message board looking to trade in the first place? I surely wouldnt unless it was to show off, which could be what hes doing, although I wont doubt someone having all 3 cards, but for 2 people to have a set of each one and both post on the pokemon message board?

But yeah you got good point and I agree.

But IMHO I just dont think a legit set of those cards would be sent to a non name grading company outside of PSA and Beckett, that just raises the flag for me, even the set claimed to be had by someone on pokegym is graded by PSA, But I doubtful he has those cards IRL either, just pictures. But I know all these cards if you search around their is certainly more people claiming to own them than printed, that is for certain. If I could get a good enough look at the cards the guy on ebay has, ill look over them again (hard to make any comparison though) I would venture to say those cards are bootlegs, especially since its not graded by PSA or Beckett.

But its not just these cards either, their is many more outside the Pikachu trophy collection I got doubts about to.
 
I'm part of a rather tight-knit collectors group with the TCG, and we've done extensive research into how many copies of what cards exist, and even have a record of where those cards are currently possessed. Money is a tough thing right now, and has been for the past few years if you know your economy, so many collectors or resellers who have been sitting on such articles have been slowly selling them out.

90% of the sales are private (mine was). 10% are on eBay or Yahoo Japan. This is the same ratio as prior years. This is why they seemed "hard to find" - those with the contacts could get them, but you were out of luck if you lacked those contacts.

To give you an idea: we know that each No.1/2/3 trophy cards from 1997~1999 have two copies of each ranking in the public domain (one for seniors, one for juniors) and one copy of each ranking in permanent archive at Creatures. The 1998 set up on eBay right now are legit. They are the only full set that exist together. The 1997 issues are split up all over the place between the UK, Germany and USA, and the 1999's are an unknown marker asides from the fact that I've got a complete set currently in shipment to me (it's believed the rest are in Germany but we haven't been able to contact anyone who knows where they are.)

Illustrator had four copies (four winners), plus a new archival copy which we now know of thanks to Creatures. All of them are accounted for.

We're working to ascertain solid numbers on trophy cards that are, by comparison to things like Illustrator, unknown or overshadowed by Illustrator. Ones that are by technicalities rarer, and harder to get information on as well. Unless you really, really know your stuff or are actively searching, you'd be pretty surprised at what is out there and where and just how legit a lot of them are.
 
What proof are the ones on Ebay legit due to the grading company?

Its highly suspicious 2 of the 3 up there is a Gem Mint 10.

I know some grading companies do not notice some bootlegs that come through the door. That would probably be one of them since its not PSA or Beckett, and both of those companies have let fakes slip through before like the Michael Jordan rookies.
 
If you really want to get narky about legitimacy you can talk directly to the guy selling them. There are videos of him showing the cards off in extensive detail as well.

They were graded by CTA, before the current owner who has them got them. The company is out of business as far as I am aware these days, but they were acquired through craigslist in a private sale before being offered on UPCCC and now eBay. Each company has different ways of grading, and you /can/ find Gem 10 trophy cards in Pokemon if you hunt (that is not the only one). They have extensive scans in there showing the cards.
 
The guy selling gets pretty bent up about anyone asking if they are real and real deep questions concerning them though, its one reason I bought this topic up alongside their is another guy on pokegym claiming to have the set, ill even link it:

http://s728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/smpratte/Smpratte%20Collection/

although I would call shenanigans on him actually having all of this.

The one who has them listed on ebay is from Kansas

This one is from Illinois
 
Scott Pratte, the photobucket you just linked, has 1997 cards, not 1998 cards. He's a personal friend of mine and I can vouch for his collection. He just recently acquired an Illustrator as well.

It's okay to be skeptical but do some research before you point fingers.
 
viper.fox said:
I'm part of a rather tight-knit collectors group with the TCG, and we've done extensive research into how many copies of what cards exist, and even have a record of where those cards are currently possessed.

[...]

We're working to ascertain solid numbers on trophy cards that are, by comparison to things like Illustrator, unknown or overshadowed by Illustrator. Ones that are by technicalities rarer, and harder to get information on as well. Unless you really, really know your stuff or are actively searching, you'd be pretty surprised at what is out there and where and just how legit a lot of them are.
Click to expand...

I've always wondered -- have there been any really 'big deal' cards you've found out are lost/damaged? I'm surprised all Illustrator cards are accounted for, the winners must've been told to expect the cards to have a genuine value in the long term or just happened to take good care of them. I'd also be curious if any card has ever stuck with the original owner (Creatures' archival copies aside) regardless of significant offers, but the first question's more interesting to me.
 
I thought their was all 1 printing done, didnt know their was 97,98, and 99 prints.
 
@Bullet
An easy thing to miss if you don't know what to look for. The illustrations are the same for all three releases, but the body text is different for all three. I can provide scans from my card bible/stock images and help you ID the differences so you can see for yourself if you were curious? :)

@DMYSYS
I'm not terribly versed in any damage accounts, and to my knowledge asides from some edge whitening which happens with age most of them tend to be in pretty decent condition. As for lost ones, I'm sure there are. We have images of cards which were printed, and were given away as trophies, but have never seen the light of day outside what we've got in publications like Trainer's Magazine:

2000-04.jpg
2000-05.jpg
2000-06.jpg


As to if they're being held on to by a collector (even some players, such as Yamato, often hold tightly onto most of his trophy cards for sentimental reasons) or lost we just don't know. That's the kind of stuff we'd like to suss out!
 
doubtful the guy on the gym has illustrator.

the cards he pictures is different, graded by PSA whereas the ones on ebay and pojo are not.

But its just that, pictures.
 
you may doubt who has what but like viper has said they keep an account on the trophies.there was an illustrator that poped up on ebay last year and from what i heard was sold to a private action.plus most japanese cards if they were fake people can find out very fast its like looking at an english pokemon card you can tell its fake looking at it closely
 
I think its all hokus pokus they know exactly where everything is. I believe they are around making these claims and showing off fake cards in order to gain brownie pts and power in the community, its happened before, its why PTCO died, one of them is mods at pokegym throwing his weight around. I warned pokebeach staff about them, may not have to worry about them here unless the forums get more popular than the front page site, they only going to go to populated sites.

Theirs been too many questionable actions by this bunch that speaks out that they are a bunch of trolls, apparently fakes can be convincing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QU9qr-AxvE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J56hJqVqsAg

Knowing them, they will say something about holo patterns is not with what they know which proves it fake, which is more bogus bull.

The fact if you do indeed own legit copies of trophy pikachu cards, you would send them in to PSA for a grade, not leave them with a CTA grade from a company that no longer exist and also makes the value of the cards lower than a PSA grade.

That group of people seems to get pretty offended about the word fake. They got a forum they made as well, about 20 people total who go to it, then an admin forum with over 300 post in it and 30 some topics, probably the most popular forum on there and it cannot be accessed by normal registrants, you can guess whats being talked about in there.

I also believe they all going to lie for each other even though their is holes all over the place.
 
Well, someone seems to be quite bitter. Our claims to knowing where most of the cards are come from research within the community. Which is why most of us can back-trace even the owner log of the trophy cards since they so seldom change hands.

And hello, yes. I own legit copies of Pika trophies. Mine are actually ungraded, but I refuse to send them to a company like PSA. PSA grades are overhyped, and not accurate for the Japanese TCG because they barely understand the JP TCG. In fact, most of the collectors I know who do grade them are in it just for the hard case to keep it safe, not for the number. The CTA case on that No.2 is mangled, yes, but it did its job. And would you feel comfortable sending your pride and joy away to some company? I'm sure as heck not. If I ever sold my Pikas (never happening, but talking hypothetical) I'd even be terrified of shipping them to another collector simply because of their worth.

I assume you talk of the UPCCC when you mention that forum, as it's the only one that rings true to your description. As one of the admins there, I can tell you now it's not what you think being discussed in there. In fact many of the topics are personal, when we aren't discussing forum business. It's been untouched for the past two months, actually, as we have been talking across the other boards (you'll find General, Collection Additions, and Buy/Sell/Trade are used much more)
 
Sigh...

The 98 Pika trophies for sale are real. Scott's illustrator is real. There are plenty of things to get annoyed about in life, but really, Pokémon cards aren't one of them.

Changing the subject completely, I have to say I still LOVE that PTCG blog picture. In your face PSA fans :p If it's good enough for PTCG to stick trophies in a binder, it sure as heck should be good enough for us mere mortals. (If I ever get my hands on the 98 Pika's the first job is to get them out of their cases)
 
Pokebeach staff already has a few things I sent to them already regarding UPCCC members as they have pretty much taken over power at pokegym.

You sound decent now, until you get on Pokegym and UPCCC forums.

The guy with the CTA cards is hiding much more than you want to believe, why you think he shill bidded on his last auction of those trophy cards?
 
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