Discussion If you had to pick your Big 3...

S

Sabaku

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Just a question for anyone that's interested.

If you had to pick three deck archetypes that you would predict would be the most dangerous threats in Standard right now, what would they be?

If there are others that you would consider substantial threats, but not at the very top of the list, feel free to list them as honorable mentions.
 
Rainbow Road Xerneas, for sheer damage output and lack of real hard counters when it gets rolling (Parallel City doesn't hurt them as much as Rayquaza). They are quite reliant on Max Elixirs early-game from my experience, but it's easier to stream attackers with EXP Share. The potential for this deck to just keep all of its damage modifiers in play and keep piling on pressure is pretty real.

Mega Scizor - I don't think it's the absolute best deck, but the fact that it counters a large amount of stuff deems it worthy of being called "dangerous," in my opinion. Though maybe it's because I play Despair Ray. I think the plain Scizor variant is better than the Garbodor variant, if only because I find playing Mega + Garbodor decks kind of clunky, but I think it's one of those decks that can go with a variety of support, Crawdaunt for example.

The third one is Darkrai/Giratina. Fury Belt is so busted in Darkrai decks that it's just plain unfair. Mega-level health with less setup and an easy-damage attack that gets boosted by the most ubiquitous form of energy acceleration (Max Elixir) makes it a huge threat. Access to Giratina just makes it better.
 
Pretty much the only big decks I would thing would be popular is throw the deck at the opponent. We pretty much have Night March 2.0 where the Pokemon have at least 120 health. Darkrai can do huge damage on turn one while building on Chaos Wheel and mega Ray and Rainbow Road can get KOs on their first time. There really isn't a place for skill in the game right now, just mindless draw as much of your deck as you can and KO something. I will kill for a format where you had to work to gain an inch and take advantage.

Scizor is a thing I guess but its not a deck I worry about and is a deck I consider good based on my standard of how the game should be played.
 
Mewtwo, Scizor, Dark variants.
 
M Rayquaza-EX, M Mewtwo-EX, then Rainbow Road
Followed very closely by M Scizor, and Dark Variants
Then Probably Volcanion-EX, and Xerneas BREAK/Giratina, as well as M Gardevoir-EX
 
I would probably have to say
1. Fairies (in general)
2. M Scizor
3. Volcanion

I wouldn't totally count Dark toolbox or Mewtwo out yet, but they don't have much of an impact on the game.
Scizor is second by sheer lack of total consistency, but it really is the perfect anti-meta.
Volcanion seems solid since it fairs well against most decks, but since I have a list in the deck garage, I can't talk much.
Fairies easily earns no.1 since it pretty much ran Dark variants out of town, has the most power(Xerneas, Xerneas Break, and M Gardevoir), plus it's relatively consistent to play with any variant.
Dark is almost destroyed entirely by fairies since the resistance takes off the damage often needed for a OHKO, and once they start hitting hard, it's almost impossible to come back from the game.
And Mewtwo is just flat out overhyped. So many people in my area play Mewtwo, and they always lose. Dark beats it from resistance/ Weakness from Mew, Scizor has resistance and discards their energy, Rainbow Road has a the better prize trade, Mega Gardevoir one shots it. It only really has decent matchups Volcanion, Yanmega Break, and DarkTina(which is non-existent now).
 
Hmm... I'd say M Mewtwo, Dark variants, and M Scizor are the top 3 archetypes at the moment. With Volcanion and Rainbow Road as honorary mentions.
 
crystal_pidgeot said:
There really isn't a place for skill in the game right now, just mindless draw as much of your deck as you can and KO something.
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I have to disagree with you on that one. I quite enjoy this format and how there is no definitive top deck or even top three. Everything has even matchups against everything else and you do need some skill to play in this format.
 
1) Rainbow Road- everything has been said about this
2) Mega Gardy- Highly consistent, countered by mega scizor though.
3) Greninja BREAK- RIP, ur not number 3 lol

Actual 3) Mega scizor- there was an article about this so I will not explain.
 
1.) Darkrai / Giratina - Might not have any terribly powerful attacks, but has the durability and adaptability to be a safe choice for any event.
2.) M Scizor - Iron Crusher is a very reliable attack that gives it a good amount of Stadium control. For more details, just read one of the two articles already out.
3.) M Mewtwo Y - Psychic Infinity is a powerful attack, and Shrine of Memories + Damage Change gives it strong defensive abilities. Would be higher on the list if Psychic wasn't such a troubling type to be.

Honorable Mentions:

4.) Volcanion-EX - Steam Up and regular Volcanion provide it with very powerful forms of attack and acceleration. Would easily be part of the Big 3 replacing M Scizor if Garbotoxin wasn't everywhere.
5.) Rainbow Road - Dual type Pokemon allow it to put out more power consistently and be less prone to being screwed by Parallel City. Energy denial and strong single-prize attackers still keep it in check, though.

Nice try award:

6.) Greninja BREAK - Could be so much better, but with Garbotoxin always present and no reliable ways to discard tools, it's going to stay in the deck garage for a while.
 
ambo said:
I have to disagree with you on that one. I quite enjoy this format and how there is no definitive top deck or even top three. Everything has even matchups against everything else and you do need some skill to play in this format.
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You can disagree if you want but its just going to be draw through your deck as fast as you can and KO things in one hit. The only thing missing here it item lock. If your the only skill is "I didn't all my cards for 240 damage" then that isn't skill.

Of all the decks thats interesting to play right now, M Scizor EX is it. Maybe Gardevoir too.
 
I've played 331 matches in the Standard format on PTCGO since Sept. 1, and the three decks that have performed best against me are Volcanion EX (with Volcanion and Flareon EX), Darkrai EX (with Giratina EX or Yveltal EX), and Mega Rayquaza.

In 11 matches, Volcanion EX with Flareon EX has gone 9-2 against me. In 8 matches without Flareon EX, Volcanion is a pedestrian 3-5 against me.

Darkrai EX overall is 13-3 against me. Darkrai EX has been paired most frequently with Yveltal EX and Giratina EX. In 7 matches with Yveltal EX, it's 6-1 against me; in 7 matches with Giratina EX, it's also gone 6-1 against me. There have only been 2 matches I've played where Darkrai hasn't been paired with Yveltal or Giratina, and it went 1-1 in those two matches. Giratina and Yveltal must have something against each other, though, as no Darkrai deck has carried both of them.

Mega Ray has gone 16-4 against me, but it's worth noting that all 4 of those losses came against my Rainbow Road deck. My Rainbow Road went 4-2 head to head with Mega Ray. It's also worth noting that outside of Rainbow Road, it only went up against my other top performing decks twice (M Mewtwo and a Vespiquen Regice Glaceon EX deck). This means that 12 of the 20 times I faced it, I was playing a deck that has not fared well in this new rotation (for example, it has 3 matchups with Typhlosion, two with Sceptile, and two with a Garchomp Talonflame deck).

Also worth noting is that my 3 best performing decks have been a Darkrai EX Giratina EX deck, a Mega Mewtwo EX Garbodor deck, and the above mentioned Vespiquen Regice Glaceon deck (which I have subsequently shelved with the introduction of Karen into the meta).

Mega Mewtwo against me has been less than mediocre as it has won only 12 of the 25 matches in which I've gone up against it, but I've actually only seen the Garbodor version 7 of those 25 times. My Mega Mewtwo Garbodor deck has won 37 of 53 matches (70%).
 
21times said:
I've played 331 matches in the Standard format on PTCGO since Sept. 1, and the three decks that have performed best against me are Volcanion EX (with Volcanion and Flareon EX), Darkrai EX (with Giratina EX or Yveltal EX), and Mega Rayquaza.

In 11 matches, Volcanion EX with Flareon EX has gone 9-2 against me. In 8 matches without Flareon EX, Volcanion is a pedestrian 3-5 against me.

Darkrai EX overall is 13-3 against me. Darkrai EX has been paired most frequently with Yveltal EX and Giratina EX. In 7 matches with Yveltal EX, it's 6-1 against me; in 7 matches with Giratina EX, it's also gone 6-1 against me. There have only been 2 matches I've played where Darkrai hasn't been paired with Yveltal or Giratina, and it went 1-1 in those two matches. Giratina and Yveltal must have something against each other, though, as no Darkrai deck has carried both of them.

Mega Ray has gone 16-4 against me, but it's worth noting that all 4 of those losses came against my Rainbow Road deck. My Rainbow Road went 4-2 head to head with Mega Ray. It's also worth noting that outside of Rainbow Road, it only went up against my other top performing decks twice (M Mewtwo and a Vespiquen Regice Glaceon EX deck). This means that 12 of the 20 times I faced it, I was playing a deck that has not fared well in this new rotation (for example, it has 3 matchups with Typhlosion, two with Sceptile, and two with a Garchomp Talonflame deck).

Also worth noting is that my 3 best performing decks have been a Darkrai EX Giratina EX deck, a Mega Mewtwo EX Garbodor deck, and the above mentioned Vespiquen Regice Glaceon deck (which I have subsequently shelved with the introduction of Karen into the meta).

Mega Mewtwo against me has been less than mediocre as it has won only 12 of the 25 matches in which I've gone up against it, but I've actually only seen the Garbodor version 7 of those 25 times. My Mega Mewtwo Garbodor deck has won 37 of 53 matches (70%).
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I don't think you should've counted the PTCGO, since maybe 90%(?) of people have no clue how to use the decks they're playing. That's one of many reasons i quit PTCGO, because playtesting there is unreliable. I agree with you saying the Mewtwo is less than mediocre, I honestly don't see how it's tier 1.
 
PTCGO is all I play, and I would definitely agree that there is a difference between what happens online and what happens when you have cards in your hand.

My Mega Mewtwo Garbodor deck has won 70% of the matches its played. I agree that it's probably not top tier, but it's definitely not mediocre. I would put it in that second tier with Yanmega Break and Rainbow Road. Good, competitive decks but not going to totally dominate like the big 3.
 
I need someone to explain to me why they feel mewtwo isn't as good. I win most games with M Mewtwo EX/Garbodor and thats because most of the time one single M Mewtwo EX can go the distance. M build for it is a little different than what most are playing I guess but its ability to do damage fast and heal itself, I dont see how its mediocre.

As for a matches go, I've had really good matchups against Rainbow Road and M Ray and decks with abilities are pretty much are autowins. The only ever bad match I came across was M Gardevoir EX.
 
Mega Mewtwo is a little bit of a dichotomy to me. As I mentioned, I win 70% of the matches I play with it. When I go up against it though, I've beaten it more than half the time (13 out of 25 matches). I guess that's why I put it in that second tier. Volcanion, Mega Ray, Darkrai just scare me a lot more than M Mewtwo does.
 
I don't get how Mega-Ray is good at all.

Parallel City (which is a staple in almost every deck), just massively derails them.

Yeah sure Karen helps but you still need to re set up.
 
raymond25962 said:
I don't get how Mega-Ray is good at all.

Parallel City (which is a staple in almost every deck), just massively derails them.
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M Ray doesn't work well, speed M Ray works a lot better, and it attacks well. Parallel City is not that much of a staple, more of a tech. Most decks only run 1-2, but M Ray runs 4 Sky Field, so unless you manage to counterattack Sky Field during the late game, when they may of discarded them (but at that point if the M Ray is playing their game well, you shouldn't get that choice,) and force them to not get on out, then Parallel City isn't the best. As for setting up, Karen and Super Rod actually work decently, while I won't deny Parallel City is a thorn in M Ray's side, it still works well. M Ray still rocks.
 
Even late game with a combo of Karen and Super Rods you can still recover from a massive Parallel City.
 
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