Improving Theme Decks

S

signofzeta

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I collect theme decks, but I was wondering, what do you think about them? I heard negative things about them, but as a theme deck collector, I collect them no matter how good or bad they are.

Here is my idea on the changes theme decks would have:

One theme deck per set instead of 2. You only get one choice. Just like in Japan.
One of the rares is replaced by an Ultra rare, like an EX card. This is the cover card and is exclusive to the deck. Due to the deck being for new players, the EX card probably won't be a card experienced players would want badly.
The holo rare and a non-holo rare of the same card is still in the deck.
There are 2 other non-holo rares.
The deck would contain some pokemon or trainers exclusive to the deck.
 
Half the energy counts, add more trainer cards and make it so the evolution lines are more consistent (ie less different lines to add more space for some of the same). Bam, theme decks that stand up a little bit more.
 
Replacing a few Pokemon with a few Trainers, and possibly adding an additional Rare are the only changes I feel would be necessary.

Taking the Fates Collide Sky Guardian deck as an example, I'd probably do something like drop 2 Snubbull, 3 Meowth, adding 2 Lass's Special, 1 Random Receiver, 1 Fairy Garden and a Delphox. I guess maybe dropping a couple of energy couldn't hurt, but I honestly feel like Theme Decks should have a higher-than-optimal amount of energy, both for newer players to get enough of a single type, and because they're nowhere near as efficient with their attachments. That being said, only 14-16 are probably necessary even for being that conservative.

Some decks deal with the filler better than others, but EVERY deck has at least 2 commons that are only there for the sake of not including something more worthwhile.
 
A reason why the theme decks have so many different pokemon lines rather than focusing on one pokemon line is to allow for the new player to customize the deck to their liking. There should be a way to improve the deck, rather than just be handed a completed deck, which breeds people who can't build decks, and all they do is buy theme decks, and netdeck. Thanks a lot WOTC for breeding me into a theme deck buyer for MTG, and now also Pokemon and Yugioh.

I made this thread because Wizards of the Coast announced that they are changing their intro packs, which is PTCG's theme deck equivalent, where every veteran hates it, and tells all new players to stay away from, into Planeswalker decks.

Intro packs consists of a 60 card deck (2 rares, one of which is foil, 12 uncommons, 25 to 26 lands, and the rest commons), a how to play insert and a strategy guide containing the decklists of the 5 decks that are released with the set.

Planeswalker decks "improve" on intro packs by having exclusive cards, such as a mythic rare planeswalker, 2 copies of a rare that search for the planeswalker, 3 copies of an uncommon that enhances the planeswalker, 4 copies of a common flavored to the planeswalker, and 4 copies of a common dual land. The rest of the cards is drawn from the set they are associated with. Intro packs came in 5 per set. Planeswalker decks will come in 2 per set. If you have followed MTG, you know what I am talking about.

Now if TPCi translated this with their theme decks, it is like what I suggested above.

MTG's mythics are kind of like PTCG's ultra rares, especially Planeswalkers. Theme Deck cover cards should be some sort of EX card, or whatever ultra rare equivalent might be (Diamond and Pearl Series having Lvl X cards, and HGSS series having PRIME cards). Only one copy. This EX card, or ultra rare equivalent, is exclusive to the deck.

Just like Planeswalker decks having exclusive cards, this improved theme deck will also have exclusive cards that support the EX card.

Just like how it went from 5 intro packs to 2 Planeswalker decks, each set will go from 2 theme decks to 1 improved theme deck.

The price will remain the same.

So a quick question. What would you rather each set to have? 2 theme decks with no EX card or ultra rare equivalent, or 1 theme deck with EX card or ultra rare equivalent?

Note that because the EX card is in a $14 theme deck, the card must not be dominating in tournaments.

Another thing is, even if they change theme decks into what I suggested, they should not discontinue the battle arena decks, as the theme decks draw Pokemon only from the set they are associated with, while Battle Arena Decks draw Pokemon from multiple sets.

Here is a thing I noticed. Both Magic and Yugioh had changed something with their preconstructed lineup, whether they be adding a product line, removing one, or changing one product line to another. With Pokemon TCG, since, I don't know, 2003, it was always 2 theme decks per set, with the occasional 3 theme deck set. It has just been recent that we are getting annual trainer kits, and I am unsure if the Battle Arena Decks will continue to be released annually in the long term. It was just in HS Undaunted that the theme deck makeup has changed, and I believe that with what MTG is doing, it is also time to experiement with a 1 theme deck per set with a EX card as cover card model with the upcoming Sun and Moon sets.

Another thing to note is what I am suggesting is what Japan is technically already doing, as they too kind of release one deck per set, and they have a EX card in them.

I forgot to mention, it doesn't have to replace theme decks, or it may replace theme decks in some of the sets, character decks, especially gym leader and elite 4 decks. That would be cool.
 
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signofzeta said:
Note that because the EX card is in a $14 theme deck, the card must not be dominating in tournaments.
Click to expand...

What should be dominating in tournaments; a card that you need extreme luck or extreme finances to afford, or one almost everyone can gain access to?

Trick question; no one card should really be dominant in tournaments. ;)

I am trying to resist getting into my "wall o' text" mode where (even if though I tend to use proper punctuation) I still write a lot more than most are willing (and some are able!) to read. So I guess I'll do it as a list, even though it might make things jumbled and/or feel like they are lacking an explanation. A lot of this seems to follow the KISS principle: Keep It Super Simple!

1) Don't make the decks weak or strong, keep them simple.
If the game is being balanced properly (and if it isn't that is a separate problem) then this will allow the deck to be functional and marginally competitive without it being this broken thing that allows someone to buy it and win major events.

2) Turn them into their own format!
It doesn't have to be used for major events, but build theme decks to be about equally competitive with each other. They remain an entry point but are far less intimidating for casual fans, as said players can just "Buy these decks" and get a solid, albeit simplified, Pokémon TCG experience. Having a stable card pool and deck lists gives a slightly more traditional gaming quality as well.

3) Separate them from expansions!
It is okay to use them to promote a set, but do it not by including cards from the current set, but cards that will work well with that set. If that cannot be done... still separate them. Pokémon has shown us how problematic it can be for players and collectors. Cards that ought to be good pulls become bad ones because "I already have enough thanks to the theme deck." or alternatively, the theme deck seems pretty bad because "It is just the filler cards from the set." When I was collecting, getting alternate versions of cards in the theme decks actually got annoying; do I consider those as part of the set or not? Never mind when you're still inexperienced and get fooled into thinking the readily available theme deck version is the "chase" version from the set. ^^'

4) Focus on actual themes.
Colorless, Darkness, Dragon, Fairy, Fighting, Fire, Grass, Lightning, Metal, Psychic, Water. Did I miss any? That is enough for one theme deck per month if we focus just on Pokémon Type, with either a month off or room for one unique theme as well. If that release schedule sounds like too much, then every-other-month means every two years we can have an updated [insert Type] Theme Deck to be the foundation for decks of that Type. With Expanded, that is actually decent longevity. Or we could do two decks every other month and still have a yearly cycle. I am sure something can be worked out. The big thing is players shouldn't have to be torn between getting the "current" one and waiting for the "next one" for a particular Type. It should be really obvious, and I'd actually favor labeling them according to year (Darkness 2018, Darkness 2020, Darkness 2022, etc.) so only the totally oblivious really struggle (and you can't do much about those people.

5) Take advantage of all the previous to teach!
Going this route, while the decks won't be streamlined to be as competitive as possible, double or triple decking into something borderline competitive ain't a bad thing. Instead of doing that with the same deck though (because the core has way too many cards run at low counts), the natural theme deck should almost look boring with most cards maxed out. "TecH" is an advanced concept. Suggest including singles or doubles of cards that are too useful to skip but not useful enough to run at higher counts, and that sometimes you can get by with just three copies instead of four of something important. This is where you promote buying more product so that you can alter the base design of the deck, after all. With a strategy that teaches the fundamentals of the game as well as the core strengths and weaknesses of a particular Type, this can be the foundation for something more.

6) Things to avoid:
  • Complicated effects or niche mechanics (keep it accessible to kids and novices)
  • Sucking out the skill ("Flips R FUN!" may attract tots but can scare away adults)
  • Don't mistake this for the video game (no incomplete Evolution lines!)
 
signofzeta said:
I collect theme decks, but I was wondering, what do you think about them? I heard negative things about them, but as a theme deck collector, I collect them no matter how good or bad they are.

Here is my idea on the changes theme decks would have:

One theme deck per set instead of 2. You only get one choice. Just like in Japan.
One of the rares is replaced by an Ultra rare, like an EX card. This is the cover card and is exclusive to the deck. Due to the deck being for new players, the EX card probably won't be a card experienced players would want badly.
The holo rare and a non-holo rare of the same card is still in the deck.
There are 2 other non-holo rares.
The deck would contain some pokemon or trainers exclusive to the deck.
Click to expand...
In japan they make ex decks , some theme decks with exes too ! its just the english ones are never gonna be made , I fully agree that having a USEFUL deck should be made so when you pay 14$ for a deck, you're getting something back at the very least ! I can totally say that buying a booster to finding the card is not worth the gamble so why not make that 1 card in a deck ? (Shaymin ex, nudge , nudge :p )
 
I'm thinking 2 ways to release the improved theme decks. Release 1 per set, or all sets are released with 0 theme decks, but instead, 2 theme decks are released twice a year, with a total of 4 theme decks per year, kind of like Yugioh and Structure decks.

MTG is changing their intro packs into planeswalker decks, and with the release of the upcoming Sun and Moon sets, I think this would be a great time to change the theme decks.
 
I would like to see them be borderline competitive. I bought a Zapdos and Articuno Roaring Skies theme deck just to see if they were any better and they were trash. I feel the theme decks should focus on the set (which would improve the quality of the set with things like trainers) and build around the theme of the deck. That would be having 4 Zapdos or Articuno as well as having decent number of pokemon lines. With the Zapdos deck, it would be like 2-2-2 Dragonite and maybe 3-3 Swellow. I feel the structure of the decks should be like 18 Pokemon 26 Trainers and 16 Energy. Its just enough to make the player want to invest in more and change up the deck to see what works for them.

While Yugioh's game quality became questionable, their theme decks are really good, almost giving you 40 completely competitive cards.
 
I would like theme decks to be like competitive decks with cards from the set. Say for Ancient Origins you could have a Vespilplume deck with a 3/3 line of Vespiquen, a 3/2/2 line of Vileplume and a few filler. Or for XY Base you could have Trevenent. I don't think theme decks should be EX heavy but should have 1 EX or BREAK to help the strategy.
 
I finally know what this improved theme deck can compare to. Does anyone remember the EX epic collection decks from back in, around, 2007? Basically starting with Sun and Moon, instead of 2 theme deck, there should be 1 theme deck built like the EX epic collection decks, with the exception that the Pokemon is only from the set the deck is associated with. The set would have a bunch of EX cards right? One of these EX cards is taken out, specifically the worst of the bunch, and instead, is made theme deck exclusive, meaning that the only way to get that card is through the theme deck.
 
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