Is Yveltal Ex/Zoroark Break viable in new format?
- Thread starter daniil123
- Start date
I think it could be great because it has very few bad matchups and hasn't really lost much to the rotation. I tweaked this omnipoke list that I think is pretty good, notably adding one more yveltal-EX and switching to a 2-2 count of baby yveltal and breakthrough yveltal along with replacing the rotated trainers. I personally think 3-4 max elixir is the way to go. Zoroark BREAK is really good in this format of high energy count big hitters and the rush in ability of Zoroark/Float Stone is very useful as always.
Hope this helps! Any other techs or ideas?
Hope this helps! Any other techs or ideas?
I've been playing with the deck...not quite the same as the one above in the video...oh Hell, I'll link it...
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******
##Pokémon - 17
* 2 Shaymin-EX ROS 77
* 1 Umbreon-EX FAC 55
* 2 Yveltal BKT 94
* 1 Yveltal XY 78
* 2 Yveltal-EX PR-XY XY150
* 2 Zoroark BREAK BKT 92
* 3 Zorua BKT 89
* 1 Zorua BKT 90
* 3 Zoroark BKT 91
##Trainer Cards - 30
* 4 Trainers' Mail ROS 92
* 3 VS Seeker PHF 109
* 3 Ultra Ball DEX 102
* 2 Lysandre FLF 90
* 1 Super Rod BKT 149
* 4 Professor Sycamore XY 122
* 1 Special Charge STS 105
* 4 Max Elixir BKP 102
* 2 Fighting Fury Belt BKP 99
* 2 N NVI 101
* 2 Hex Maniac AOR 75
* 2 Float Stone BKT 137
##Energy - 13
* 9 Darkness Energy GEN 81
* 4 Double Colorless Energy FAC 114
Total Cards - 60
****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
I'd say, from my play testing online...the deck, as I've built it...is not viable...
For a few reasons...It's a deck that's firmly planted in last seasons meta...sure Zoroark is good against Ray and Rainbow Force, in theory...however, with the format going towards EX pokemon and Mega's..The deck plays too fair, everything goes over the top of you...
I could be way off base, and their might be a magic 60 that doesn't have this issue, but right now, it seems where it could have thrived against small, faster attackers...it can't hold it's own against, fast massive attackers....
It's good in theory against decks doing powerful things, but doesn't do those powerful things nearly as well itself...
Just my thoughts...
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******
##Pokémon - 17
* 2 Shaymin-EX ROS 77
* 1 Umbreon-EX FAC 55
* 2 Yveltal BKT 94
* 1 Yveltal XY 78
* 2 Yveltal-EX PR-XY XY150
* 2 Zoroark BREAK BKT 92
* 3 Zorua BKT 89
* 1 Zorua BKT 90
* 3 Zoroark BKT 91
##Trainer Cards - 30
* 4 Trainers' Mail ROS 92
* 3 VS Seeker PHF 109
* 3 Ultra Ball DEX 102
* 2 Lysandre FLF 90
* 1 Super Rod BKT 149
* 4 Professor Sycamore XY 122
* 1 Special Charge STS 105
* 4 Max Elixir BKP 102
* 2 Fighting Fury Belt BKP 99
* 2 N NVI 101
* 2 Hex Maniac AOR 75
* 2 Float Stone BKT 137
##Energy - 13
* 9 Darkness Energy GEN 81
* 4 Double Colorless Energy FAC 114
Total Cards - 60
****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
I'd say, from my play testing online...the deck, as I've built it...is not viable...
For a few reasons...It's a deck that's firmly planted in last seasons meta...sure Zoroark is good against Ray and Rainbow Force, in theory...however, with the format going towards EX pokemon and Mega's..The deck plays too fair, everything goes over the top of you...
I could be way off base, and their might be a magic 60 that doesn't have this issue, but right now, it seems where it could have thrived against small, faster attackers...it can't hold it's own against, fast massive attackers....
It's good in theory against decks doing powerful things, but doesn't do those powerful things nearly as well itself...
Just my thoughts...
I have tried very hard to make Quad zoroark work well, It definitely has issues as you mentioned as it can't 2THKO Mega's or FFB High HP Ex's reliably, However Zoroark is a better Clean up attacker than main attacker IMO.
Some Tips vs M Mewtwo/ Garbodor that have helped me
-Prize trading is a strategy that you can use if needed, You dont have to necessarily OHKO MMewtwos
-Using BKT Yveltal to build damage and stop Spirit links, should be prioritized on Shaymins/Hoopas, This way you make them choose between Parallel city to cut bench or Shrine to Damage Swap (Depending on Game state Parallel might already be discarded and its important to take note of this, because most decks only play 1)
-Lysandering Hoopa to Foul play KO Garbodor or Weak Mewtwos/ Ex's is a strong play that should be utilized if possible. This is important because it forces them to either use a DCE to retreat or save a float stone for a new Garbodor.
-Yveltal-EX is extremely valuable because he can Y-Cyclone energy to your bench to prevent him taking extra damage from M Mewtwo. I.E Kill Damaged Shaymin w/ Y-Cyclone.
-Keep track of how many floatstones and DCE they use, and Lysander the appropriate targets. Punish them for greedy Energy attachments on MMewtwo. Chances are if you are attacking with only 2 Energy consistently they can't OHKO you.
-Klefki is decent tech, one turn is a pretty big deal and you can keep it on your bench to threaten with.
-I don't feel like Umbreon is worth it, unless you play a Mew (inconsistent as a one of, but still viable) but to each thier own, could be good against other mega decks. Hardest Match up is probably Despair Ray Gardevior IMO.
I hope this helps, this match-up isn't that bad but it's definitely not easy,
Some Tips vs M Mewtwo/ Garbodor that have helped me
-Prize trading is a strategy that you can use if needed, You dont have to necessarily OHKO MMewtwos
-Using BKT Yveltal to build damage and stop Spirit links, should be prioritized on Shaymins/Hoopas, This way you make them choose between Parallel city to cut bench or Shrine to Damage Swap (Depending on Game state Parallel might already be discarded and its important to take note of this, because most decks only play 1)
-Lysandering Hoopa to Foul play KO Garbodor or Weak Mewtwos/ Ex's is a strong play that should be utilized if possible. This is important because it forces them to either use a DCE to retreat or save a float stone for a new Garbodor.
-Yveltal-EX is extremely valuable because he can Y-Cyclone energy to your bench to prevent him taking extra damage from M Mewtwo. I.E Kill Damaged Shaymin w/ Y-Cyclone.
-Keep track of how many floatstones and DCE they use, and Lysander the appropriate targets. Punish them for greedy Energy attachments on MMewtwo. Chances are if you are attacking with only 2 Energy consistently they can't OHKO you.
-Klefki is decent tech, one turn is a pretty big deal and you can keep it on your bench to threaten with.
-I don't feel like Umbreon is worth it, unless you play a Mew (inconsistent as a one of, but still viable) but to each thier own, could be good against other mega decks. Hardest Match up is probably Despair Ray Gardevior IMO.
I hope this helps, this match-up isn't that bad but it's definitely not easy,
I'm going to have to agree, Good players have good bench management won't leave up easy shaymins and overextend alot. Garbodor is a big problem as has been mentioned a million times, The whole prize trade thing doesn't work well on mega decks that have Pokemon Center Lady. The Megas inherently aren't the counter per-say, It;s the fact that the popular Mega Decks have a bunch of smaller advantages that build up.
For Example, Mega Fairy Decks can -20 Damage and Xerneas Break cannot even be OHKOed by a Zoroark with a full bench (160-20=140) You need a Reverse Valley to do that and that's not always obtainable.
Double Colorless Energy this format is a huge burden IMO. You give M Mewtwo easier access to damage, You are more vulnerable to Giratina (Which is obviously more popular this format) Scizzor can discord it. If Fairy decks tech assault vest, it becomes tremendously difficult to damage them.
-People tech Parallel City to counter MegaRay, Cut Shaymins etc. Don't have to explain this, but you know the drill.
-Nothing is weak to dark this format, no more one shotting Trevenants etc. Small basics are not as vulnerable to Oblivion Wing, (Ohko Pumpkinboo, Joltic, Muscleband kills Mew etc.
-Zoroark Break is a TREMENDOUS CARD, this card went up in potential this format, However it is a Stage 2 essentially and adding more than 2 doesn't guarantee you good foul play opportunities. Helps alot vs M Mewtwo but that's not that consistent, not enough to run 3-4 IMO.
-MegaRay is a good matchup, we'll have to see how creative they get in working around Zoroarks. Still alot of unexplored variants. Speed kills though.
It might honestly be better to run 4 Yveltal-EXs, but I don't know. I'm really trying to make this deck have better matchups but it simply doesn't it's not a terrible deck and it can win, but its a game and somethings are just better.
Building up Damage with Fright Night Yveltal to KO seems pretty good, 130 Hp with no option to FFB it many times, it at best can get 2 Attacks off. This could be the most viable thing to do with this deck.
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You make good points and I came to a similar conclusion about Fright Night Yveltal, possibly being the best thing this deck has going for it currently...
I tweaked my deck with that in mind..I know I linked it in another post, but I'll put it here...it's been a couple of days since I took it for a spin though..
To reiterate, I still think the deck plays too fair in this format, and like I said, often with Yveltal EX and Zoroark, you're relying on your opponents doing powerful things to really make these cards shine, it's just that in this format, those powerful things are usually better than what we can do..
Here's my updated list with a bit more emphasis on Fright Night Yveltal..
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******
##Pokémon - 16
* 2 Shaymin-EX ROS 77
* 1 Umbreon-EX FAC 55
* 2 Yveltal BKT 94
* 1 Yveltal XY 78
* 2 Yveltal-EX PR-XY XY150
* 1 Zoroark BREAK BKT 92
* 2 Zorua BKT 89
* 2 Zoroark BKT 91
* 3 Mew FAC 29
##Trainer Cards - 31
* 4 VS Seeker PHF 109
* 4 Ultra Ball DEX 102
* 2 Lysandre FLF 90
* 1 Super Rod BKT 149
* 4 Professor Sycamore XY 122
* 2 Captivating Poké Puff STS 99
* 1 Special Charge STS 105
* 4 Max Elixir BKP 102
* 2 Fighting Fury Belt BKP 99
* 1 Reverse Valley BKP 110
* 2 N NVI 101
* 2 Hex Maniac AOR 75
* 2 Float Stone BKT 137
##Energy - 13
* 9 Darkness Energy GEN 81
* 4 Double Colorless Energy FAC 114
Total Cards - 60
****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
Mew, is the big inclusion....as another attacker...single prize attacker...that can use Pitch-Black spear, usually, and other attacks where needed..
I trimmed the Zoroark line as it felt underwhelming, the format is just so big, that it can't reliably one shot, and is more often than not...one-shot itself...
The Pokepuffs, might actually be useless, I haven't really had a moment where I thought, damn...that card really worked out for me...was pivotal in getting the win..
I haven't tested Ninja Boy, as I only have the deck online...It's probably, a great inclusion...
Ninja boy is a must in any Mew/Yveltal DCE Deck. Too much potential.
I don't see the use for Oblivion Wing this format, it's too inconsistent you want to start with BKT 99 percent of the time. Increase those chances, increase the count for Ninja boy plays.
Pokepuff is pretty useless this format as well unfortunately, it's a cool card maybe 4 of them would make it worth the investment but even with 4 you're hoping they already didn't cut their shaymins or Ultra Ball away extra Trubbish.
2 Hex sounds good on paper you get a chance to draw it turn one which could make huge difference. However if you don't draw it turn one then you're pretty much just cockblocking FrightNight stopping Spirit Links/Tools.1 Ranger is probably better for Giratina but you may get by not running those cards, unless you wanna stop Volcanian/Mew via meta call. It's honestly up to you if you think a Turn one Hex will increase your win percentage significantly then maybe it's worth against Hoopa-ex set up decks.
If I am reading that right, only Stadium? I'd bump that up, include 1 Parallel City it's too good this format not to use. Remember if you use it to cut your shaymins before them, they cannot bump it with a Parallel City of their own. Faded Town is also an option, play around with it. Or you can include a Delinquent to cover that deficiency.
Hope this helps,
Ninja boy is a must in any Mew/Yveltal DCE Deck. Too much potential.
I don't see the use for Oblivion Wing this format, it's too inconsistent you want to start with BKT 99 percent of the time. Increase those chances, increase the count for Ninja boy plays.
Pokepuff is pretty useless this format as well unfortunately, it's a cool card maybe 4 of them would make it worth the investment but even with 4 you're hoping they already didn't cut their shaymins or Ultra Ball away extra Trubbish.
2 Hex sounds good on paper you get a chance to draw it turn one which could make huge difference. However if you don't draw it turn one then you're pretty much just cockblocking FrightNight stopping Spirit Links/Tools.1 Ranger is probably better for Giratina but you may get by not running those cards, unless you wanna stop Volcanian/Mew via meta call. It's honestly up to you if you think a Turn one Hex will increase your win percentage significantly then maybe it's worth against Hoopa-ex set up decks.
If I am reading that right, only Stadium? I'd bump that up, include 1 Parallel City it's too good this format not to use. Remember if you use it to cut your shaymins before them, they cannot bump it with a Parallel City of their own. Faded Town is also an option, play around with it. Or you can include a Delinquent to cover that deficiency.
Hope this helps,
Oh totally helps, I was getting round to implementing most of your suggestions, I really can't argue with any of your points..
You're certainly right about Oblivion Ring being a bit pants right now...
So, the changes of the top of my head I'd make, are to remove Oblivion Wing for another Fright Night, add the Ninja Boy, possibly even remove the Zoroark Line completely...
Lugia EX could be a thing...and as for extra stadiums...Faded Town possibly...
Cut the Pokepuffs ofc...
Zoroark is in a rough spot but the Break is interesting, I'd at least test is thoroughly before cutting. It might increase your chances of getting max elixers on good bench targets (Stand in>Max Elixir ) and you can even make some sick plays Stand In retreating to Umbreon/BKT etc. Try it out!
Gotta remember Zoroark makes your opponent play a little more cautious and it opens up options for big outplays. Sometimes it's not the card thats the issue, it's how you use it.
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