Jirachi Shaymin Gothitelle, can it work?

G

Glace

Top 8, Worlds 2013
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I've seen a lot of people talking about this is other threads, and decided to make this. This is a thread discussing the JSG.. GJS... JGS? I don't know but it doesn't matter, but this thread is to discuss Jirachi Gothitelle Shaymin.

I personally don't think it works, as you'd have to discard at least 2 {P} by T2 (Junk Arm), flip 2 heads (1 sometimes) with Jiarchi (main problem), get a T2 Gothitelle, and Shaymin the energy to Gothitelle, and attack for 70.

Anyone else see problems with this?
 
I can see it possibly working, but won't work consistently enough to make it viable for a tournament deck. I mean 3 energies by T2 best start, and if you can't get that lock early on, you're pretty much done for. Which is why Vileplume has a big harder of a shot in this format. If it weren't for spiritomb,Vilegar wouldn't have been as powerful as it was.
 
Ya, Spiritomb was need for VileGar to work, and VileGar could do some much more damage. If Spiritomb was reprinted, I could see Gothitelle working.


4,000th Post :).
 
The deck's ridiculously good, I don't see how anyone can say otherwise. Jirachi as a one of yes, shaymin just no. Focusing on a turn two 70 just isn't practical. The deck is going to be extremely playable. Tech a 2-1-2 Reuniclus and you can never die, unless your playing against Magnezone(Or mirror). Maybe a 1-1 Blissey and seeker. Magnezone might also be viable as a replacement for Reuniclus, for a more consistent Goth swarm. You still want the deck to be streamlined for the earliest possible trainerlock, however. Which is why deckbuilding will be such a prominent factor in the upcoming season imo.

tl;dr decks defintely viable.
 
Zangoose said:
The deck's ridiculously good, I don't see how anyone can say otherwise. Jirachi as a one of yes, shaymin just no. Focusing on a turn two 70 just isn't practical. The deck is going to be extremely playable. Tech a 2-1-2 Reuniclus and you can never die, unless your playing against Magnezone(Or mirror). Maybe a 1-1 Blissey and seeker. Magnezone might also be viable as a replacement for Reuniclus, for a more consistent Goth swarm. You still want the deck to be streamlined for the earliest possible trainerlock, however. Which is why deckbuilding will be such a prominent factor in the upcoming season imo.

tl;dr decks defintely viable.
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I disagree with everything you said. How will teching in Reuniclus help? The fastest you can reliably set up 2 stage 2s would be turn 4, turn 3 occasionally. Every deck in the meta can hit 130 turn 4 with ease, some can do it turn 3. Also, lets say you are facing Reshiram or Zekrom. Where are you going to put 120 every turn? Blissey won't work. 2 stage 2s and a stage 1 just to heal 1 pokemon which can be 2HKOed? Sure there's Max Potion, but it would take a lot of space to reliably get it up, lowing speed and consistency. The deck is extremely unviable imo. And you are completely missing the point-the damage output isn't there. It can't keep up with top metagame decks even with them trainer-locked, you just don't hit a high enough damage reliably.
 
You don't need the Reuniclus up until a few turns later in the game. Assuming you can get the T2 Gothitelle you now have a trainer lock that will allow you to bench your Solosis without much fear and then build up your Reuniclus. I play with two Reshiram in the deck as a place to put your damage counters, as they can Outrage if you need it, and then Max Potion works fine with just 2-3 of them. You aren't giving up a lot of consistency for it. Aside from Reshiram and Zekrom you have a fine level of damage output, and as long as they aren't attacking with Reshiram every turn, you are going to be able to pull it through. It goes something like this

T1 Bench Gothita
T2 Hopefully Gothitelle, sometimes Gothorita
T3 Definitely Gothitelle, now bench Solosis

You don't even necessarily have to be attaching to an active Gothitelle if you are going up against a Reshiram or Zekrom deck, if you want you can just stall with an energyless Gothitelle active, and then build up a Gothitelle on the bench. Once you have a Gothitelle and Reuniclus built on the bench there is no way that Reshiram or Zekrom are going to win out, you can keep moving damage counter off and healing them. As long as you can get the trainer lock out quickly, you can take your time attacking, as there aren't many decks that are going to be breaking through a bunch of 130 HP Pokemon any time soon.
 
Now how does any pokemon in the meta hit for 130. Go read Gothitelle. While turn 3 full set up are rare, turn 2/3 Goth happens quite consistently, and reuniclus can come later. The damage I can spread around whichever way I like, blissey can hold damage counters let alone a chansey. Blissey can hold a lot then remove seeker rinse repeat. If anything I can potentially tech a dragon. The decks really good, I don't see how anyone can say otherwise. Go test before bashing broski.

EDIT: Dox is correct.
 
Zangoose said:
Now how does any pokemon in the meta hit for 130. Go read Gothitelle.
Click to expand...

In never said meta decks can easily hit for 130 in one turn, which I agree is impossible without Magnezone. However, I said any metagame deck can hit 130 turn 4. Reshiram/Zekrom/Yanmega all hit over 130 in two turns, and can usually set up turn 2, 3 at the latest, so Gothitelle can most certainly be killed before Reuniclus is set up. Also, being able to only hit 70 turn 3, and only with a bit of luck (not that much, but a little) just isn't good enough. I admit I am mostly theorymoning, so I will try to do some more testing before I say any more.
 
The damage output isn't the important part. The point to this deck is that Gothitelle never dies with Reuniclus in play, and Gothitelle T2/3 is very common, so your opponent won't be playing any Trainer-Item cards. Once they can't hit enough, it's GG.
 
Also since max potion is coming out, move all the damage to reniculus and use max potion since you won't be attacking with him.
 
xCiegex said:
Also since max potion is coming out, move all the damage to reniculus and use max potion since you won't be attacking with him.
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That is actually like 10000x better than Blissey when you think about it.

For people who are shaky on Shaymin, I've heard Mismagius UL is a decent alternative. I could see this kind of deck going far, but I don't think the engine is the best way to run it early-game. I would imagine it's great after you have a Gothitelle that dies, however.

Another thing to point out for people shaky on Gothitelle in general. You can use Catcher while your opponent can't. :D And the only that that OHKOs Gothitelle is Magnezone too. If you can get Goth set up quickly, they'll have to manually evolve their Magnemites and with Catcher (maybe Judge Idk), you can ensure Magnezone does not hit the field.

dmaster out.
 
Dark Void said:
I disagree with everything you said. How will teching in Reuniclus help? The fastest you can reliably set up 2 stage 2s would be turn 4, turn 3 occasionally. Every deck in the meta can hit 130 turn 4 with ease, some can do it turn 3. Also, lets say you are facing Reshiram or Zekrom. Where are you going to put 120 every turn? Blissey won't work. 2 stage 2s and a stage 1 just to heal 1 pokemon which can be 2HKOed? Sure there's Max Potion, but it would take a lot of space to reliably get it up, lowing speed and consistency. The deck is extremely unviable imo. And you are completely missing the point-the damage output isn't there. It can't keep up with top metagame decks even with them trainer-locked, you just don't hit a high enough damage reliably.
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Trainer lock hurts. A lot. It hurts just about every deck in the format. Except trainer lock of course but why do I have to say that? lol and if you don't have a REAL crappy start, T2 gothitelle is really possible. and Reuniclus works REAL good since:
T2 gothitelle trainer lock hurts a lot of decks
gothitelle prevents reshiram and zekrom from OHKO ing them
with reuniclus out against reshiram and zekrom they can't do anything to you
magnezone can OHKO it without plus powers.
 
I've been testing this deck a bit today and what I've found is that you know who is going to win fairly early in the game. Either a quick Gothitelle steamrolls their deck, or they get set up quickly and you just can't recover quickly enough. I've been able to call the outcome of all of the games after three turns...
 
DawnOfXatu said:
I've been testing this deck a bit today and what I've found is that you know who is going to win fairly early in the game. Either a quick Gothitelle steamrolls their deck, or they get set up quickly and you just can't recover quickly enough. I've been able to call the outcome of all of the games after three turns...
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With or without Twins? Talk to me on aim, I feel as if our opinions are different. :p
 
dmaster said:
Another thing to point out for people shaky on Gothitelle in general. You can use Catcher while your opponent can't. :D And the only that that OHKOs Gothitelle is Magnezone too. If you can get Goth set up quickly, they'll have to manually evolve their Magnemites and with Catcher (maybe Judge Idk), you can ensure Magnezone does not hit the field.

dmaster out.
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Mew and RDL can also ko Gothitelle, as well as badboar.

xCiegex said:
Also since max potion is coming out, move all the damage to reniculus and use max potion since you won't be attacking with him.
Click to expand...

This is the best part of the deck. Constanst healing.
 
Good luck setting RDL up with no Communication...Not many decks focus so much on it to get it out T2. Stage 2s are a tad too slow with no Rare Candy (and I would assume no draw because now you're talking about three different Stage 2s hitting the field...) and not that many people will play Emboar with Catcher. Mew is an option yes, but when it dies to so many things in one shot (Reshiram, Donphan, Yanmega, Magnezone, Zekrom), you have to wonder how many people will actually play that.

dmaster out.
 
This deck is okay, but If the opponent can get their own Gothitelle or Vileplume, you lose. I played against this deck like 5 times and 6-0'd it all 5 times
 
I'd say a 1-1 Blissey would be even better than Max Potion though, no? You can heal ALL your Pokémon as opposed to just one, plus it's searchable (vs Max Potion). As long as there are no counters on Gothitelle, you should be fine.

And glaceon, I wouldn't be too worried about Mew or RDL– they take a while to set up as well, and you can probably get them with Goth or Catcher before they hit active. Trainer lock is a powerful thing; it makes about a quarter of your opponent's cards unusable.

Obviously, Reshiram/Zekrom is important (I'd say Reshiram to protect against Kingdra, but it doesn't matter too much). It seems that's the general consensus.

But how about sacrificing one of those early-game to get set up? What I'm saying is put it active, then set up your Goth, Reuniclus, and such. Either it dies or you can switch back (Dodrio? Switch? DCE?). I guess you would just have to worry about Catcher, but that's true with any setup before Goth is ready.
 
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