Ruling Lying during searches

PMJ

PMJ

Silhouette Gloom of the Sundown Lands
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So word on the street is that you're allowed to lie about finding stuff in your deck, like I can play Energy Search and come across 18 basic Energy but say I didn't find one.

I am curious as to when exactly you are allowed to lie when you're looking through your deck. I know that for cards like TGW and cards that let you draw up to X cards you have to say how many before you start drawing, but since the deck is not common knowledge can you say, play Holon Mentor and only take a single Basic out of your deck without specifying beforehand how many you're looking for?
 
I am not sure about energy search. With Holon Mentor it says search your deck for "up to" 3 basics, so I think with that you could potentially not take any.
 
Since the deck is not public knowledge (as in, no one knows what you have in there or what you don't have) you are allowed to fail any deck search.

Yes. As crazy as it sounds, you could use ie. Castaway. Go through your deck and tell that you didn't find anything. Then on your next turn you can use Castaway again and find the cards you "couldn't find" on your last turn.
You can't use a card for no effect though. You still have to search through your deck and shuffle it afterwards.
And you can't fail a Quick Ball for example, cause you have to show the cards you reveal to your opponent.
 
Mewstor is exactly right. Even the crazy part.

The Game has no memory of previous deck searches. You can fail on one, then succeed on the next one, then fail again, even if there is a valid card in the deck the whole time. As has been said, the deck is private -- you are not required to prove to anyone that the cards you're searching for are or aren't there. This is why this sort of thing, although seemingly odd at first, is allowed.

The card that allowed the search is still consumed, though. If you play, say, Holon Mentor and don't pull any Basics for whatever reason, it's still considered your Supporter for that turn and is discarded at the end. Otherwise you just got a free look through your deck, and that's not allowed. One reason why it's a good reason to go through your whole deck the first time you play a deck search, and take mental note of any critical cards that are prized -- like a Level X, for example, so you don't waste a Premier Ball down the road.
 
So would I be correct in assuming that the "up to 3" on Holon Mentor is merely a restriction for how many you can take, and you don't have to specify beforehand on how many you can grab? And you must only specify when taking stuff from your discard pile (like Night Maintenance) and drawing cards (from TGW)?
 
Really, it's just on "draw up to N" cards.

You don't have to declare beforehand for Night Maintenance, but you do have to have at least one Pokemon or Basic Energy in your discard in order to play it (can't play a card for no effect, and in this case the failure of the card is public information).
 
I never did that before.

Maybe people are doing it for free discards in able to use some Trainers/Pokepowers (ex. Steven's Advice)
 
Weird.. But kravenance didnt our judge say that you have to pull 3 out from mentor or you cant play it? This is very puzzling..
 
then the judge was wrong or didn't read the card right, and PMJ if this has happened to you before don't worry ,you are not the only one .
 
Yes. The up to 3 is merely a limit. Even if you don't take any, you still have to shuffle your deck.
 
Up to three means getting 0, 1, 2 or 3. If you get 0, you still get a free search through your deck seeing what you have left, shuffling afterward, and having a better or worse chance of getting card out of there you need.
 
Mewstor's comments are right, here. If you review the Rules Compendium or have taken the Professor exam you will see that when it comes to performing acts on cards which are not public knowledge you can fail to perform those acts. HM says up to 3 Pokemon, you can satisfy the card by taking 1, 2 or 3 Pokemon. However, since your opponent has no recourse to look at your deck you can also take 0 even if you have a Basic Pokemon that meets the criteria of the card. It may seem like lying but it's in the fabric of the game.
 
umbreondude said:
but it would be cheating to paly the card if you know you already have no pokemon in the deck
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Then use your own conscience. In any case you are allowed to fail. It's not cheating, as in braking the rules. You won't brake any rule of the game by failing the search on purpose.
 
umbreondude said:
but it would be cheating to paly the card if you know you already have no pokemon in the deck
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It can be stupidity, too :) I've done it before...Mentor, look through deck....oh, wait a minute....

Not cheating though. It's quite allowed, and with good reason.
 
well, sorry for going a little off-topic, but i think a player that lies during searches is a cheater and is just proving to himself he's not capable of winning fair and square. you need to prove yourself you can do it without any help. if you can't win, well that's too bad, maybe next time's better.
 
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It's not cheating, so technically, a player who find something but doesn't take it is someone who knows what he's doing. Someone who keeps the fact that he might have very few cards in his deck left in mind, someone who considers the attacks of his Pokémon which might rely on what's in your deck. Don't automatically assume that someone who doesn't take anything from his deck can't win otherwise (I fail to see the logic in that anyways). And how can it be cheating when it's not even against the rules? :S
 
poke_tcg_master.. please understand the fact that lying during searches cannot be cheating beacuse the rules says nothing about that.. the deck is only for the player's knowledge and if he lies it could be a counter to what the opponent has done.. think of it as a tactic and not as a cheat
 
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