Standard M Gallade EX - Hoopa (Post-rotation)

[TuxedoBlack]

I've always liked spread decks. So, when I learned that Trevenant (Forest Curse) will rotate out, I was a bit saddened. But, when I reviewed the new Hoopa from the STS set, I was glad to see that one of my old spread decks featuring M Gallade EX could now be revived again (and also be a strong counter to M Mewtwo EX (Psychic Infinity) decks).

Pokemon (14)
3 Gallade EX
4 Hoopa
3 M Gallade EX
1 Shaymin EX
3 Wobbuffet (GEN)

Trainers (35)
1 Fisherman
3 Gallade Spirit Link
1 Giovani's Scheme
1 Judge
2 Lysandre
3 Mega Turbo
2 N
2 Ninja Boy
1 Professor Birch's Observations
4 Professor Sycamore
1 Professor's Letter
3 Shrine of Memories
1 Skyla
1 Super Rod
1 Switch
4 Ultra Ball
4 VS Seeker

Energy (11)
11 Psychic

Strategy
Using Hoopa as a starter, strategically spread damage onto opponent's Pokemon while setting up the M Gallade EXs. Depending upon the board position, continue to spread damage with a second Hoopa or start attacking with M Gallade EX.

Additional Comments

• I intentionally only run 1 Shaymin EX.
• I also like to run a diverse group card-draw Supporters in order to utilize the most appropriate Supporter at the time.
• Shrine of Memories appears to be the most appropriate Stadium for this deck; but might there be a better option... If so, what and why?
• With Hoopa (2-3?) being my preferred starter, and most likely being sacrificed, would running more techs like employing Hammers be a better strategy to impose/force my strategy?
• Knowing that 2-3 Hoopa maybe KOd 'for the team", I was just thinking that Teammates should also be incorporated into the deck.
• Further, Hoopa EX should also be incorporated too, but with a second Ninja Boy perhaps.

Thoughts?

 

[DaminP]

Hey! I really like the base idea of this deck! I was also thinking that maybe creep show gengar would work pretty good with the new hoopa!

 

[TuxedoBlack]

Hey! I really like the base idea of this deck! I was also thinking that maybe creep show gengar would work pretty good with the new hoopa!

Gengar (Creep Show) + Hoopa is definitely worth trying; go for it. I'd be interested in your test results too.

 

[Lanstar]

I've got to try M Gallade out this format... Gengar does work great with Hoopa as well, and I'm still doing some testing with my own list.

Some suggestions:

-Tech in an Absol somehow. Cursed Eyes is an excellent ability for this deck, and the card can be reshuffled back into your deck with Ninja Boy.

-For Gallade, Shrine of Memories doesn't give it many worthwhile options, but Parallel City could work. By playing that card, you can discard your bench sitters, and also prevent your opponent from playing the same stadium to discard their own bench that you're piling damage upon. It also can reduce damage a little bit.

-As a way to make opponents cautious of playing stadiums like Rough Seas, add a Delinquent. It has helped me win many games with my Gengar deck.

I'll also see how M Gallade will fare myself. Good luck testing!

 

[Dark Espeon]

Hi TuxedoBlack,

Instead of Skyla i would run Teammates. I also do not see any need for Fisherman in this deck. Consider to run Hex Maniac instead. I really miss three Trainer's Mail in this deck since they can search out Spirit Links and Ninja Boy without sacrificing your supporter for that turn. As a stadium card you could consider four Magma's Secret Base if you trade one Wobbuffet for a Landforme Shaymin to mitigate the damage on your side of the field. How does this deck fare compared to a Yveltal BREAK deck? Just some ideas and thoughts. Hope they do help you out a little.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

Some suggestions:

-Tech in an Absol somehow. Cursed Eyes is an excellent ability for this deck, and the card can be reshuffled back into your deck with Ninja Boy.

-For Gallade, Shrine of Memories doesn't give it many worthwhile options, but Parallel City could work. By playing that card, you can discard your bench sitters, and also prevent your opponent from playing the same stadium to discard their own bench that you're piling damage upon. It also can reduce damage a little bit.

-As a way to make opponents cautious of playing stadiums like Rough Seas, add a Delinquent. It has helped me win many games with my Gengar deck.

I'll also see how M Gallade will fare myself. Good luck testing!

From some early testing, I'm finding that I really don't need the Absol as much as I had thought; plus without AZ in the post-rotation, I really didn't want not to have it as a "1 and done" use Pokeemon. However, Ninja Boy Play may change my mind.

Shrine of Memories will be replaced most likely with Parallel City and Silent Lab. Note: in my area, the current "top" 6 decks going into post-rotation are expected to be Dark variants, M Rayquaza EX, M Mewtwo EX, M Sceptile EX, Volcanion EX, and Water Box. So, Parallel City will definitely have the most impact on those decks. And I've used Delinquent in other decks too efectively; so, I may incorporate that Supporter again. Thanks for your review and comments.

Instead of Skyla i would run Teammates.

I had an epiphany later after posting the list that I should run Ace Trainer; so, that I could play this Supporter after my sacrificial Hoopa is KOd.

I also do not see any need for Fisherman in this deck. Consider to run Hex Maniac instead.

The Fisherman is intended to support a certain tactic I have for the deck, but is usually Ultra Ball or Professor Sycamore fodder in most cases. Hex Maniac would be useful at times too.

I really miss three Trainer's Mail in this deck...

Agreed. My early "alpha" test version did utilize them, and the setup seemed faster vs. what I now have. So, I may just revert to that version again.

How does this deck fare compared to a Yveltal BREAK deck?

M Gallade EX has more HP than Yveltal BREAK and a PPC attack; whereas Yveltal BREAK requires DDD energy to attack, but it only offers 1 prize vs. M Gallade EX's 2. Also, M Gallade EX can take advantage of Mega Turbo which is a 100% chance of getting energy from the discard pile; whereas Max Elixir (used in my Dark decks) does not have such a high probability of getting energy for my Yveltal. However, if you plan accordingly and use a strategy to utilize Yveltal BREAK, it can be more effective, IMO with 1 drawback though: Veltal BREAK can not 1HKO M Mewtwo EX (Psychic Infinity), but M Gallade EX can.

Thanks for your review and comments.

 

[Dark Espeon]

Hi TuxedoBlack,

You could replace Skyla with Teammates and Professor Birch's observation with Ace Trainer. To be honest I like Yveltal BREAK since it can run Exp Share in addition to Max Elixir and it also has access to Yveltal's Oblivion Wing to accelerate.

The attack costs of Yveltal BREAK and M Gallade Ex are in essence identical with Dimension Valley rotated out. Have not tested M Gallade much but to me it seems that Yveltal BREAK should be faster and it can tech Umbreon Ex in case Mega decks turn out be be as prevalent as people believe.

I am still not convinced that Mega decks will be all that common since he have real decent Basics and BREAKs that can do almost the same. For that reason I am still hesitant to tech Umbreon into my Yveltal BREAK deck. How do you feel about this issue?

 

[TuxedoBlack]

I am still not convinced that Mega decks will be all that common since he have real decent Basics and BREAKs that can do almost the same. For that reason I am still hesitant to tech Umbreon into my Yveltal BREAK deck. How do you feel about this issue?

In my area, M Rayquaza EX, M Mewtwo EX and M Sceptile EX are 3 popular Mega decks in my area evidenced by their significant presence at our last 3 League Challenges. M Mewtwo EX was even hyped as the forgone "BDIF" going into the post-rotation.... So, I knew my M Gallade EX deck would at least be a solid counter to the M Mewtwo decks. The others would be tough matches, but winnable.

I am not a fan of Umbreon EX; it's a gimmick and useful in very limited situations. Further, it's not a good starter - Ninja Boy to the rescue - and an "easy" 2-prize target.

 

[Dark Espeon]

In my area, M Rayquaza EX, M Mewtwo EX and M Sceptile EX are 3 popular Mega decks in my area evidenced by their significant presence at our last 3 League Challenges. M Mewtwo EX was even hyped as the forgone "BDIF" going into the post-rotation.... So, I knew my M Gallade EX deck would at least be a solid counter to the M Mewtwo decks. The others would be tough matches, but winnable.

I am not a fan of Umbreon EX; it's a gimmick and useful in very limited situations. Further, it's not a good starter - Ninja Boy to the rescue - and an "easy" 2-prize target.

Hi TuxedoBlack,

Local meta can differ a lot. Around here the only Mega decks are M Mewtwo Ex with Garbodor and M Gardevoir decks. M Gallade could fit your area but I would make sure to run four Mega Turbo to ensure he is at least as fast as the three other Mega decks. Would be interested to see the most recent version of the deck.

Umbreon Ex is indeed situational but in an area with three common Mega decks he can be a viable one-off tech in a Darkness deck that also runs Ninja Boy. Nevertheless I still did not include Umbreon in my own darkness decks. Would be interested in the Yveltal BREAK deck you mentioned that you playtested to compare it to my current version.

 

[xdiegaox]

How well is this deck doing bro? im very interested in this deck this idea sounds amazing , let me know :] please

 

[TuxedoBlack]

The deck runs well and most games are not troublesome except when playing some Water decks with Rough Seas.

I've made a few tweaks since the original post:

1. Replaced a Wobbuffet with a Hoopa EX in order to get My EXs out faster, and
2. The 3 Shrine of Memories Stadiums were replaced with 2 Parallel City (helps limiting Hoopa's targets) and Silent Lab (situational, but helpful at times).

 

[poke4trade]

The deck runs well and most games are not troublesome except when playing some Water decks with Rough Seas.

I've made a few tweaks since the original post:

1. Replaced a Wobbuffet with a Hoopa EX in order to get My EXs out faster, and
2. The 3 Shrine of Memories Stadiums were replaced with 2 Parallel City (helps limiting Hoopa's targets) and Silent Lab (situational, but helpful at times).

Exactly. I play this deck quite often. Water decks are the only auto loss it will take. Everything else is pretty much fifty-fifty. I was going to suggest the same replacement cards. The other cards I've tested is Hex, PCL, and Ninja Boy. Hex can play well against the grinijia match up if the stadiums don't hit. PCL is really clutch because it puts a lot of hits just outside of KO on M Gallade. And lastly, Ninja Boy. You can Ninja Boy from a Hoopa or Hoopa EX into Gallade. It also allows you to drop the Max on a different card without it being over concerning.

But ya, I've had a pretty good run with the deck, even though, at times it can be complicated to play because the need for different attackers at different times.

 

[Higliphics]

Would Max Elixir be beneficial in this deck for a faster setup? I am not entirely sure, but since M Gallade does take 3 energy, it might help. Also... I have no idea where you would put it. >.< Sorry I couldn't be more helpful!

 

[TuxedoBlack]

Would Max Elixir be beneficial in this deck for a faster setup? I am not entirely sure, but since M Gallade does take 3 energy, it might help. Also... I have no idea where you would put it. >.< Sorry I couldn't be more helpful!

Attack speed is not the concern for this deck, since Hoopa only needs 1 energy before it can attack. Considering that Hoopa is the preferred 1st and 2nd starters, I've had plenty of time to setup the M Gallade EX as the follow-on attacker.

 

[Higliphics]

Attack speed is not the concern for this deck, since Hoopa only needs 1 energy before it can attack. Considering that Hoopa is the preferred 1st and 2nd starters, I've had plenty of time to setup the M Gallade EX as the follow-on attacker.

Oh I see! I have never seen this deck played before. I would love to see it against Mega Mewtwo.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

Oh I see! I have never seen this deck played before. I would love to see it against Mega Mewtwo.

advantage: M Gallade EX IMO.

 

[poke4trade]

Attack speed is not the concern for this deck, since Hoopa only needs 1 energy before it can attack. Considering that Hoopa is the preferred 1st and 2nd starters, I've had plenty of time to setup the M Gallade EX as the follow-on attacker.

I use them but they are not needed. It depends on the type of player. Mega turbo work just as good. This deck can also benefit from energy switch. There is a lot of options.

 

[xdiegaox]

Hi what you think in adding the new promo meloetta to this deck? The one that with one energy flip 3 times for each head do 10 to all the oponent pokemons

 

[Scraggy559]

How about Spinda from Primal Clash? It spread damage all across the board.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

Hi what you think in adding the new promo meloetta to this deck? The one that with one energy flip 3 times for each head do 10 to all the oponent pokemons

Great idea! I just saw the promo this morning; thanks for bringing it to our attention. This promo Meloetta addresses 2 basic concerns I have starting with Pokémon like Hoopa:

1. Although Hoopa has a better than average HP than most, non-EX, Basic Pokemon, it also has an associated 2-energy Retreat Cost. There are times when you want to retreat Hoopa, but the Retreat Cost can be inconveniently costly at times. (I really miss Mystery energy...)
2. Further, Hoopa's second attack requires PPP energy which again can be inconveniently costly. But, Ninja Boy has helped too addressing this concern. In my area where M Mewtwo EX decks have been popular, Hoopa poses a real, alternative 1HKO threat to those opponents.

This promo Meloetta has significantly less HP (but a decent amount at 80), than Hoopa, but promo Meloetta has:

1. C Retreat Cost vs. Hoopa's CC Retreat Cost;
2. Potential to inflict damage onto all opponent's Pokémon, as oppose to Hoopa that can only target 2 opponent's Pokemon; and
3. Potential to inflict more damage (albeit by flipping well) onto opponent's Pokémon.

How about Spinda from Primal Clash? It spread damage all across the board.

Another good alternative to Hoopa and it also has similar qualities to promo Meloetta. However, this Spinda is Colorless; so, it does not present a real, alternative threat option to M Mewtwo EX (which is one of my concerns). But, as a starter, I think this is another solid option.

By the way, both Meloetta and Spinda have an attack that can confuse the Defending Pokémon - Confusion can be a very clutch option at times.

Other changes being considered:

-1 Wobbuffet - 2 have been sufficient
-1 Fisherman - not really needed
-1 Giovani's Scheme - not really needed after sufficient damage spread
-1 Shrine of Memories - 1 replaced in favor of another kind of Stadium
-1 Super Rod - replaced in favor of another kind of discarded, resource recovery option

+1 Ace Trainer / Teammates - opponent's hand disruption after starting Pokémon is KOd
+1 Brock's Grit - more efficient, discarded resource recovery option
+1 Delinquent / Energy Retrieval - more disruption / energy access option
+1 Olympia - alternative switching option and provides some minor healing
+1 Parallel City - opponent's bench disruption or used to remove unwanted Pokémon from my bench