On Lele issue I stated before, he is still new to the game so I gave the benefit of a doubt when reading his action for Day1. That is my way of thinking of the issue
Finished Mafia LI: Senate Subterfuge~Game Over!
- Thread starter NinjaPenguin
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What? Lele litterally got confirmed scum by the hosts. Do you not pay any attention?
Why not? It is worth reading into in my book. We need all the information we can get. I for my part don't want to run into a bulletproof lynch. If you want to do that. Have fun.
Really isn't. It's called flavor.
Also. I know this sounds weird.... But maybe we shouldn't lynch Lele? Because. We know 100% he is scum. And we know his ability. So he is not a threat. Might aswell keep him around. If he managed to "get out" of his basement. The other 2 are probably gonna be able to tell us and then we can lynch him still.
Just as an idea really.
If you are worried that Tapu Lele might have a secret bulletproof ability, you should consider that it is more likely that any secret ability he might have can also be obtained via escaping the basement. So, in any case, we are risking him having a scummy ability activating. Only that lynching him early on prevents this from becoming a much greater issue when there are few of us.
Agree with SM, @mirdo i don't think the risk you are proposing is worth taking
Since Lele is host confirmed to be scum we should lynch him (just nor turbo lynch we need the lenght of the day), unless somehow Lele has an ability that would show himself as scum is scanned by others which is very unlikely but not impossible..
@Celever you said you'd make a case on bb in our certamen QT. Where is it? :U
Lele is host confirmed scum, there's no need to vote right now. You should know this.
I did in fact get a message.
Honestly I'm surprised I got targeted. Like, if I were scum I would have NKd bb or Jabber. Those two have been the most productive imo.
A Sudden Reveal
In the Curia, a man begins to cry. From the pressure of this job he feels as though he can't handle, the power others wield over him, and the threats his enemies have been issuing. "Bibulus," Vrackenian asks, "What is the matter?""I'm scared!" Bibulus shouts, "I'm so worried that somebody will think that I'm a bad guy!"
"You have no need to worry," Vrackenian replies, "I think you have perfectly proven your complete innocence here."
Luxinity has revealed themself to be Marcus Calpurnius Bibulus, aligned with the Loyalists.
This is not to be doubted in any way, shape, or form. Lux is host confirmed to be a Loyalist.
Normally I would be glad to have someone that I could trust but unless @Luxinity started playing this reveal amount to just a glimmer
but nonetheless that is one less people to be worry about
There's nothing wrong with claiming now: it confirms him as town for the day (as no one has counterclaimed him). It's possible that he's making a mafia play to bait the doc, but that's a bit conspiracy.
The issue is we have literally no more reason to suspect he's got a death-proof vest than we have for any other player in this game. If you have a reason, just say that you have one. That really shouldn't trigger anti-claim mechanisms, and if it does Vrack and NP are meanies sooooo.
This is true. Though we don't have any information surrounding how he would get out of the basement in his role, this would traditionally be a democratic vote within the mason chat, and obviously this isn't going to happen now that the other two people in the chat know that he's mafia. Keeping him around gives us a failsafe later on, and lynching him now means we don't get as much information as we would by lynching someone new. So I support this decision.
Also, just because Lele is mafia it doesn't mean that the case that was made on him yesterday was a good case. I stand by my stance yesterday that the rolefishing wasn't indicative of alignment, and the fact that Lele is in fact mafia is largely coincidental.
It's in the magical land of like, 2 irl days away, because I'm hosting a party today and sorting out the aftermath of the party tomorrow Dx. Might end up on Day 3.
I agree it's worth looking into bb on principle as he was one of the vets who defended Lele, but as a cohost from last game I can confirm that he did in fact tell Lele what he claims to have told him.
Barring an unexpected certamen win or something, Lele is not bulletproof or it would've shown up in his reveal. Is there a chance, however slight, that some part of TE's certamen caused the reveal of only one of Lele's Abilities, or otherwise excised part of his role? Yeah, there's a chance. But we can't plan for literally every contingency or we'd never get anything done. In this case, we should follow Occam's Razor––which states that the least convoluted plan is the correct one––and just assume that Lele's scum.
That wasn't flavor; that was a direct and unnecessary comment about the events of the previous night. This is a classic scum tactic to appear town––"Oh man TE really helped us out with that one! Good on ya TE!"
This isn't a good idea, but I was willing to dismiss it as new town until I realized you literally have not offered up a single alternative lynch candidate.
##VOTE: mirdo
Speaking of that QT, can one of you or Celever tell us what TE said in it to convince Cel of his scumminess?
There is always a need to vote. If you're not voting for Lele, it's because you'd rather be pursuing somebody else for the duration of the day.
Mord. Thoughts on anything? Lele, bb, scattered, mirdo?
[QUOTE="Jabberwock, post: 2947811, member: 107419"Speaking of that QT, can one of you or Celever tell us what TE said in it to convince Cel of his scumminess?[/quote]
He argued that we shouldn't give the certamen prize to anybody. Saying convince is strong, but it was the best D1 lead cos most of the game wasn't talking.
He argued that we shouldn't give the certamen prize to anybody. Saying convince is strong, but it was the best D1 lead cos most of the game wasn't talking.
Respond to the case for not voting Lele, then.
@Celever, can you disclose those reasons now?
I'm surprised you think I'm most productive tbh, 'cause I haven't been able to be that invested in this game. The only thing I've really done is say why I don't think Lele should be lynched, and suggest scattered based on evidence that I hadn't yet doubled back and checked, neither of which have been a great help in catching out mafians...
Although, something I did just think of then: if Cel said he would build a case on me, and if there was a mafian in that Certamen chat, I can't imagine the mafians considering me a good NK.
Two things to think about: I reckon I've played this game enough to not have 'panic' come through in my voting, nor be panicked if a scumbuddy was getting heavily pressured; I said that your theory, that Tapu was getting scumchat help, was WIFOMy and not substantiated - that's different to "this particular argument sounds like something bbn would say", since it can be easily substantiated that your observation is true. It would have been pretty scummy of me to not give an explanation there, when I probably knew the cause. (And it can be proven that I actually said this to Lele, since Jabber had access to that conversation.)
I didn't realise that Lele said he came up with that himself though (and then checked my posts in previous games)! That's very odd. @Tapu Lele ???
I'm not sure why saying "I don't think he's mafian" (what I said) automatically means that I think he's not scummy (what you say I thought)? I mean, some players have been scummy (i.e. Gekki is classic) but that doesn't make them mafian, and in Mafia 50, I thought it was highly anti-town for Lele to be fishing for information as much as he did, but that didn't make him scum. I would've though that I said or implied that the rolefishing was scummy at some point though, are you sure I didn't?
Any defense from me will probably be of a 2 irl delay too, so yeah. >.>'
Let's chuck "Jabber" and "Celever" in that mix too please >.>
Did you think that was scummy because T_E didn't want a pro-town effect in play, or something to that effect?
... Eheu!? Quid Feci!?!?!
Seriously - this is quite a surprise, even to me. That's not my role! The role I got did not even say I was "mafia" or "Triumverate". In fact, I can't even claim my role because the hosts are preventing me from doing so. There is an exclusive rule that prevents it. I even had to ask the host for permission to say even that much, because this stuff must be "host approved".
That makes me wonder...
Given DoS seems fine boasting about this, perhaps the claim rules are tailored differently for each person? I can't imagine everyone being simply unable to claim, like me. I guess we should check back in a couple of days to see if any anti-claim measures actually come into effect :V
Also, I'm kinda questioning the sanity of this "Oracle of Delphi" for several reasons
Seriously - this is quite a surprise, even to me. That's not my role! The role I got did not even say I was "mafia" or "Triumverate". In fact, I can't even claim my role because the hosts are preventing me from doing so. There is an exclusive rule that prevents it. I even had to ask the host for permission to say even that much, because this stuff must be "host approved".
That makes me wonder...
If you are telling the truth, why are you saying this about your role? Don't you risk anti-claim measures coming into effect?
Given DoS seems fine boasting about this, perhaps the claim rules are tailored differently for each person? I can't imagine everyone being simply unable to claim, like me. I guess we should check back in a couple of days to see if any anti-claim measures actually come into effect :V
Also, I'm kinda questioning the sanity of this "Oracle of Delphi" for several reasons
- It's claiming I have a different role -_-
- Historically, this figure has been seen giving stupidly ambiguous answers that sound good so that the oracle can appear correct. Take for instance the interaction between Croesus, King of Lydia, and the oracle. He asks whether he should go to war with Persia. He gets the answer "If you send an army against the Persians you will destroy a great empire." Thinking that this "great empire" is Persia, he goes to war, but ends up losing. Thus, the great empire of Lydia was destroyed, as as fulfilled by the prophesy.
- When TE died, the oracle sent a message immediately. Therefore, it did not wait for TE's death to get a choice of target, painting me a "Triumverate Member" before the night and opening me up to a possible Viligante kill or, if it came to be, Mafia NK. It seems then as if the Oracle automatically selected me? Maybe it could be the case that TE selected me as a target before death, but that seems a bit cumbersome, given that the user would constantly have to update his choice before any potential (or surprise) death.
- This was a freebie ability from a Certamen. One that is surprisingly tailored to those who lack knowledge about Roman History. Is it really the omen you might believe it to be, or is it just something to stir up the game? It just sounds kinda gimmicky.
If your not town or mafia than what are you.
Most likely an independent faction which has different goals from the town so you might as well be scum...
##VERB:::: TAPU lELE
Most likely an independent faction which has different goals from the town so you might as well be scum...
##VERB:::: TAPU lELE
Maybe I'm missing context here @scattered mind, but what are you saying exactly? Which message are you referring to?
What's so odd about all of this? I asked why my role-hunting in particular was scummy? It helped me get a better understanding of the game (I'm still looking up guides ever since this rolehunting landed me in deep water), and I also got a look at how original people were crafting their responses, and if people were actually reading my responses.
One night, when I was trapped in a grocery store with just my phone, I took it upon myself to read some mafia guides and check back on some earlier games. I noticed that you asked players "why" a particular action was scummy, so it reminded me of how my own response was crafted.
Hey, that's interesting. My conversation was in a private Discord chat after the game ended.
TBH all of this anti-claim mechanism stuff is a bit of a mess, because we're left in the dark. Though admittedly this entire portion of your post is odd to me, as when I've asked NP about anti-claim mechanics I got this response:
So it's weird that the hosts are directly preventing you from claiming your role. From my interactions with them, it seemed like they were taking more of a hands-off, "if you trigger the mechanics that's on you we're just telling you to be careful". What do you mean by exclusive rule, though? Because that seems really strange to me.NinjaPenguin said:
Well, I'll give you that one :U
While your account of the legend is technically true, I disagree with your conclusion. The story is a warning surrounding how the overconfident create echo chambers and therefore remain ignorant to wisdom, rather than that the wisdom itself was faulty: Apollo created the oracle specifically because he believed all of the other oracles were far too vague with their assertions, and so he wanted to create a reliable one. Yeah, he gave Pythia the ability to see the future under the restriction that her answers would be open to multiple interpretations, but the certamen result isn't that because it's really not open to multiple interpretations. Look:
"Tapu Lele is" cannot be interpreted in more than one way, so it appears as though the hosts aren't doing the whole non-specificity thing that the Oracle of Delphi is known for.NinjaPenguin said:
Abilities which activate on death and so you have to keep changing your active target do exist and are fairly common, actually. And if it did randomly select you, then I don't see how that nullifies its results.Tapu Lele said:
Oh yeah, horrendously gimmicky. Not a fan of how this turned out tbh it seems very unfair on you, especially with the anti-claim mechanics.Tapu Lele said:
He never said that Dx
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