Yes. It would be very unsafe to claim a role which you don't even have results for.
Finished Mafia XLI: Fight for the Dazzling Star ~ Game Over!
- Thread starter NinjaPenguin
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Daily Vote Count
Celever (1): Professor Palutena (592-)
@quakingpunch73 (2): Celever (580-)
Not Receiving Votes: (Professor Palutena, lord o da rings, bbninjas, mordacazir, Haunted Water)
Players who need to post more:
@quakingpunch73
Sorry about taking so long for the votecount.
Celever (1): Professor Palutena (592-)
@quakingpunch73 (2): Celever (580-)
Not Receiving Votes: (Professor Palutena, lord o da rings, bbninjas, mordacazir, Haunted Water)
Players who need to post more:
@quakingpunch73
Sorry about taking so long for the votecount.
Alright, so this thread has blown up since I was away yesterday. I've been wanting to look back at Celever during Day 3 and today, and I now I have some time to do so...
So, in addition to the points on talking about the role, there's also the weird instance of contradicting himself, having generally unmemorable and noncontributory posts, and the additional fact that he has a vote-weight of 2. This means that, if a townie is lynched today, and Cel is scum, he only needs one person to mis-vote and then scum have a free path to the win. ##Vote: Celever
Basically, Cel says that he hasn't been following, and that he'll be catching up, and that he'll ISO bb, which is fine.
Alright, so here's where a few of Cel's problems begin. First, as other people have been saying, he starts to hint that his role isn't powerful, with the bolded above. Another thing that stands out as odd to me is that he seemingly contradicts himself in these posts, by first implying that bb is leaning town, by dropping his hunch, and then implying bb is scum a few posts later, by saying he thinks one of bb and HW is scum and following HW.
Just reminding mord of the silence, which is fine.
Again, the post is fine, although Celever doesn't go into how the case is reaching.
I'll go into these posts at once, since they both cover tone. Tone is subjective, since you read it and interpret it, so the way you interpret it can be different than someone else.
Again, another question, but still no real contributing.
Each and every one of these posts is filled with WIFOM. Roles can vary in power with each host, and hosts never have set guidelines to pick who is a safeclaim, but this has already been addressed by PP. There's also more instances of minimizing the power of roles in these statements.
So you're not going to try and help? At this point, almost all of Celever's posts have devolved into tunneling me due to role stuff.
Yeah, no. These aren't major things. Anyone can speculate about these things, and anyone can say them. Also, you're saying rainy being coached obviously isn't happening, neither is rainy being scum, or Celever being "pretty much" town. We're both being hypocrites to each other, and I'm going to stop.
Why are you so certain he's not threatening?
If you're calling me out for having a frantic argument you can call out Celever as well. You still have a town leaning read from me. I'm not calling you out for being scum, I'm saying your reasoning for having me as suspicious isn't valid because it's untrue.
Morda can only post 5 times daily, he said this earlier today. If that's why he seems to be lying low it's not his fault. Why is Prof scummy because of his arguments? His Celever one, at least, makes a lot of sense, and again, scum mayors exist. Celever shouldn't be soft cleaned because of his VW.
I would like to hear @Professor Palutena's response to my questions here and @Celever's response to quaking's post as soon as possible.
@mordacazir I think that you should post your thoughts on this day + who you think is scummy, should be lynched, etc once these two players respond.
@mordacazir I think that you should post your thoughts on this day + who you think is scummy, should be lynched, etc once these two players respond.
K I have to post cos I did the replying to birthdays VMs but imma be upfront: I am not sober and my cognition is limited. I'm also on my phone so I'm not gonna make a massive amazing response to quaking and tbf there's nothing to respond to cos quaking's case is obvious OMGUS considering other people have been scummier.
Nope, there is stuff to respond to in that case.
I look forward to you returning when you're sober. :U
1. I'm not concerned about meta because I think meta is a poor argument to use as playstyles consistantly evolve and change. But I think that anyone who does not buy quaking's claim (like Celever) is trying to push a lynch on the closest to clear that we have, and I have a problem with that.
2. Again, meta. But the best way to push a lynch on an almost cleared townie is to push for them as an indie. Scum hate clears as it makes PoE for determining scum easier.
3. quaking is all but confirmed town due to the nature of his claim and role, which have so far been uncontested. Flavor supports his claim as well, and, if he was scum, why would he kill Bowser, which he did. Indie claim doesn't make sense either as town would be in LYLO right now if there was another anti-town indie. He has to be town.
4. I'm not sure why you think I was rushing that post but okay?
5/6. Isn't crumbling usually defined as hinting at your role? I may have the wrong term but the WW Terminology guide doesn't provide any other examples.
7. I provided that phrase as example as to why role spec does nothing, because I'm spouting nonsense that is equivalent to any post saying "Cel is confirmed town because he's mayor".
And now my read on prof has changed. All it took was a better presentation.
On the whole role spec thing, we cant be 100% percent sure anyway unless we have a seer, and it appears the only one we had lies dead, and is a very balanced and seemingly broken role. However, the fact that nobody has counterclaimed leads me to believe that quaking is telling the truth.
@Lord o da rings, I'm not quoting because tired and don't feel like it, but I view somebody who has wasted their hostile abilities and doesn't not share a wincon with the town but isnt scum to be non-threatening,
/me rolls off to slumber
On the whole role spec thing, we cant be 100% percent sure anyway unless we have a seer, and it appears the only one we had lies dead, and is a very balanced and seemingly broken role. However, the fact that nobody has counterclaimed leads me to believe that quaking is telling the truth.
@Lord o da rings, I'm not quoting because tired and don't feel like it, but I view somebody who has wasted their hostile abilities and doesn't not share a wincon with the town but isnt scum to be non-threatening,
/me rolls off to slumber
@Haunted Water - I am confident he's not scum. Only if Celever flips scum do we need to look into him. Town
@Celever - Quaking and Prof bring up good points and holes in what he's been saying, but I'm gonna refrain from voting because he'd be at L-1. Scum
@bbninjas - I've said it twice before, but again Epist dying after pushing him is shady, but there's not much else indicating anything at all. Neutral/Scum Leaning
@Professor Palutena - Said more since I last read him and I like what he's said. Town
@quakingpunch73 - After everything going on today I'm just putting him as in between. Neutral
...and I had to recall the 6th person...
@mordacazir - But they're kinda excused because of their posting limit. Also, note they've only made one post and did not get an activity warning, so, for now, I'm gonna guess he's not lying about that. Town
@Celever - Quaking and Prof bring up good points and holes in what he's been saying, but I'm gonna refrain from voting because he'd be at L-1. Scum
@bbninjas - I've said it twice before, but again Epist dying after pushing him is shady, but there's not much else indicating anything at all. Neutral/Scum Leaning
@Professor Palutena - Said more since I last read him and I like what he's said. Town
@quakingpunch73 - After everything going on today I'm just putting him as in between. Neutral
...and I had to recall the 6th person...
@mordacazir - But they're kinda excused because of their posting limit. Also, note they've only made one post and did not get an activity warning, so, for now, I'm gonna guess he's not lying about that. Town
On the contrary mord, only a single post is still little, with a limit of 5 posts you could easily designate one post per day, mind giving us your thoughts on D4 since you've last posted? Anyways, so far today I see three possible candidates, only two of them good:
- @Celever is an obvious choice because he's had moments in the game that just don't match up with how he normally plays. Contradicting himself, pushing quaking's lynch out of nowhere (which granted is possible, but not the most beneficiary), and the attitude problem I have yet to get over from D1. I also think Celever's flip could give us more accurate reads on @bbninjas and @Haunted Water. He's also been (or tried to be) a leader of the town, and I feel like he's trying to put himself in that position to gain control of the town.
- @bbninjas is the same deal as Celever with the whole leader thing, but his lynch provides less information on other players going into D5.
- @quakingpunch73 could easily be an indie, but this is role speculation, which has absolutely ruined the town in the past. This is the main reason keeping quaking, at least for today, is less damaging than keeping Celever or bb around. He also could very well be town, and even if he is an indie, he seems to be harmless at this point in terms of killing at night. If he's only got 2 shots, he clearly used them both. The least helpful lynch in my opinion.
Another gripe I have right now is I'm remembering when Camo just strolled in last game and took over the town with his gameplay. No one questioned him ever, which made it easy for him to take over the game. bbninjas and Celever have both been big figures in the town since D1, and sure they're being questioned and all, but they're still here. One thing I hate about the town is it always gets taken over by 1 or 2 leaders (at least 1 of which just so happens to be scum). This isn't really anything, but it's a gut feeling of mine right now and it's making me wary of Cel and BB.
I hope this is just the alcohol talking because the case is not OMGUS, like at all.
Have a wall:
If quaking is town:
5 town
2 scum
---> there isn't the risk of the scum having majority if a mislynch occurs
---> it isn't LYLO
If quaking is indie:
4 town
2 scum
1 indie
---> there isn't the risk of the scum having majority if a mislynch occurs
---> it isn't LYLO
This is just as WIFOMy as anything, because it's speculating that Celever is intentionally trying to deceive the town, and thus he is scum, however this point only works under the assumption that Celever is in fact scum. It's circular reason and something that subtly makes Celever look scummier than he is, which is dodgy at best and a scum ploy at worst.
Also, I came across scattered mind's Philanthropist Ability when I was checking all the deaths:
1. Why do you think that quaking, if indie, would definitely be telling the truth about his role and thus have no "hostile Abilities" remaining?
2. Why do you think that quaking, if indie, doesn't not (i.e. does) share a wincon with the town?
2. How is Celever's push on the quaking lynch "out of nowhere", especially if you're referring to his push this day?
3. What was the attitude problem?
4. Why is trying to be a leader of the town (which I don't think he has) scummy?
This is a flawed argument, but okay. Playstyles don't dramatically change between games.
Let me rephrase: Why would an experienced scum player feel the need to push for a likely town when they could easily push for any other player and presumably kill quaking during the Night? No, this isn't about meta.
What you say about LYLO is false. A LYLO occurs when the scum could reach majority if a mislynch occurs. Assuming two scum:
If quaking is town:
5 town
2 scum
---> there isn't the risk of the scum having majority if a mislynch occurs
---> it isn't LYLO
If quaking is indie:
4 town
2 scum
1 indie
---> there isn't the risk of the scum having majority if a mislynch occurs
---> it isn't LYLO
My bad:
The half-sentences and incorrect (or abnormal) grammar, such as there being no "I'm" before "still" and no "It" before "comes", is indication that you rushed to complete this post or otherwise completed it quickly. Compare that to your post where you explain your vote here, and even the post very shortly after this quoted post. The way the posts are written are quite different.
I'm not aware of crumbling being a particular terminology, however by definition, crumbling is "breaking down [under pressure]" or "falling apart [under pressure]". If you actually mean bread-crumbing, as in implying or leaving hints about your role/actions in your posts, then what's scummy about that?
Fair enough, but I'm referring to this sentence in particular: "Scum Celever has town assuming he's town solely because of his role, which sounds like a smart idea in theory because mayors are traditionally town on PB."
This is just as WIFOMy as anything, because it's speculating that Celever is intentionally trying to deceive the town, and thus he is scum, however this point only works under the assumption that Celever is in fact scum. It's circular reason and something that subtly makes Celever look scummier than he is, which is dodgy at best and a scum ploy at worst.
What exactly changed about your read and what caused the change? At the moment, it sounds like your read was based on how Prof P wrote out his posts.
The seer died??
Also, I came across scattered mind's Philanthropist Ability when I was checking all the deaths:
That's probably what you used on me and explains why my coin count jumped dramatically.
Questions:
1. Why do you think that quaking, if indie, would definitely be telling the truth about his role and thus have no "hostile Abilities" remaining?
2. Why do you think that quaking, if indie, doesn't not (i.e. does) share a wincon with the town?
Why are you confident HW is not scum, especially because you were reading him neutral not long ago?
Do you have anything to add to the case?
You've said this twice before and haven't changed your read on me at all?
How is liking what they say === being town?
1. Which push of Celever's are you referring to? Before or after this past night?
2. How is Celever's push on the quaking lynch "out of nowhere", especially if you're referring to his push this day?
3. What was the attitude problem?
4. Why is trying to be a leader of the town (which I don't think he has) scummy?
Again, where I have been trying to lead and why is leading scummy?
The issue here was not Camo, but rather the town who decided to sheep behind him. That's why the town should always be thinking about the cases present and making their own decisions based off the evidence, actively participating in the discussion and scumhunting themselves. If the town did this in the previous game, Camo wouldn't have taken over the town.
1. If he's lying, he put himself into a corner that makes it so if he used a hostile ability, we would know.
2. I'm not sure, but it's pretty convenient that our only known Town seer in this game is dead.
None of this incriminates him; only if he messes up will it.
On that note, I don't remember a seer dying. Who was it?
Epist's role:
Not quite a seer role, but it still gives info regarding the target's role, so I consider it a seer.
Also, how would scattered mind's ability hit me or bb? He's been dead for three days almost.
Not quite a seer role, but it still gives info regarding the target's role, so I consider it a seer.
Also, how would scattered mind's ability hit me or bb? He's been dead for three days almost.
Daily Vote Count
Celever (2): Professor Palutena (592-), quakingpunch73 (603-)
quakingpunch73 (2): Celever (580-)
Not Receiving Votes: (Professor Palutena, lord o da rings, bbninjas, mordacazir, Haunted Water)
Players who need to post more:
@mordacazir @quakingpunch73 @Celever
You have two days left. Start deciding.
Celever (2): Professor Palutena (592-), quakingpunch73 (603-)
quakingpunch73 (2): Celever (580-)
Not Receiving Votes: (Professor Palutena, lord o da rings, bbninjas, mordacazir, Haunted Water)
Players who need to post more:
@mordacazir @quakingpunch73 @Celever
You have two days left. Start deciding.
Day 1 when he was playing really agressively.
When was I actually lying low?
I actually think lorde is the most towny person here.
I've made ~10 posts every day? Do you call that contributing bare minimum?
I hope It's only for today, but NP just said I may only post 5 times today.
I have the same gut feeling about Cel and BB, but BB more.
mord, quality not quantity matters. If I make 400 fluff posts I ain't contributing a thing.
NP, I know this is a difference in hosting styles, but you can't put a timer and be like "y'all should've decided 48 hours before dl". If we should've decided by then, put the dl there.
I'm checking the OP. I have no amazing scumreads. Gut says Prof.
NP, I know this is a difference in hosting styles, but you can't put a timer and be like "y'all should've decided 48 hours before dl". If we should've decided by then, put the dl there.
I'm checking the OP. I have no amazing scumreads. Gut says Prof.
So, you're not going to comment on my case?
I might if I find access to a computer. Calling it a case is generous.
OMGUS anyone?
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