Discussion Maybe it's Just Me but it Seems Like it's Gardevoir and then Everything Else.

[Seastrome]

In my testing with different decks, I've seen that using Gardevoir wins more consistently than anything else. Espeon/Garb is very underwhelming and can't hit numbers. Bulu relies on item usage and ability and it's forced to discard for every knock out against Garde or else it gets knocked out easily. Volcanion is okay but it struggles against Espeon/Garbador.

Honestly, I have no clue what to use aside from Gardevoir anymore and it's depressing.

 

[YoungNes]

Ninetales octillery is another deck option

 

[Cooper]

I am assuming you want to play something unique, maybe a turbo darkrai ex and GX deck or you can go with the Golisopod Gx/Garb that almost one. Watch the finals again and pick up on what the Golisopod player needed or did wrong. Edit that deck and add new stuff and you could be improving it. Like soon we will have lusamine etc.

 

[Cooper]

As for the turbo darkrai, I'm trying to design a deck for that and I'm also designing a Marshadow GX/Glaceon EX/Jolteon Ex deck to distrust the other player. It has a 70-80% success rate so far...

 

[Duo]

Well, Metagross GX variants are currently the top pick counter, especially with tech like Kartana GX coming out soon-ish.

Greninja BREAK also isn't bad, but its inherent consistency issues as a "stage 4" deck can lose you crucial games in Swiss rounds.

Golisopod GX/Garb is also quite good. Just because it "lost" doesn't mean it's a bad deck.

I think right now we just need to exercise patience.

Sun & Moon sets are still very much in their early phase, and they just so happened to release a particularly powerful deck. The 2018 rotation hasn't even started just yet, so I consider us to be in a transition phase right now. "New" Pokemon type with the introduction of GXs, new rotation, and new expansions into Sun & Moon era. A lot of things are changing at once and a lot of things are still incomplete.

 

[Seastrome]

Well, Metagross GX variants are currently the top pick counter, especially with tech like Kartana GX coming out soon-ish.

Greninja BREAK also isn't bad, but its inherent consistency issues as a "stage 4" deck can lose you crucial games in Swiss rounds.

Golisopod GX/Garb is also quite good. Just because it "lost" doesn't mean it's a bad deck.

I think right now we just need to exercise patience.

Sun & Moon sets are still very much in their early phase, and they just so happened to release a particularly powerful deck. The 2018 rotation hasn't even started just yet, so I consider us to be in a transition phase right now. "New" Pokemon type with the introduction of GXs, new rotation, and new expansions into Sun & Moon era. A lot of things are changing at once and a lot of things are still incomplete.

I'd consider Golisopod/Garbador as a pick, however I have little experience with the deck so it's probably best not to bring it to a league cup.

 

[HouchinsDJ]

I'd consider Golisopod/Garbador as a pick, however I have little experience with the deck so it's probably best not to bring it to a league cup.

I've been playing Golisopod/Garbodor since I saw the deck at Worlds and I love it. I even took it to a tournament yesterday and finished second, with my only loss coming from a Turbo Darkrai deck that was able to set up faster than me (it also didn't help that I was dead drawing, but it happens to the best of us).

I think the deck is so good because it has an "answer" to many big decks in the format right now. Garbotoxin shuts down Gardevoir's Secret Spring, which makes the matchup a bit more even. I've been able to get Garbotoxin active Turn 2 and completely shut down Gardevoir before it even gets going. It also shuts downs Greninja's ability, which along with it's weakness to Grass, heavily tilts the matchup in your favor. It also shuts down Metagross' ability, which that deck absolutely needs to have access to if it wants to win.

Golisopod also combos perfectly with Supporters like Acerola and Guzma, allowing you to deny your opponent prize cards and disrupt them. It's also one of the more "speedier" deck going into post-rotation. Lots of decks run Stage 2s. Golisopod can be up and running as soon as your second turn. Sure, Stage 2 decks can too with Rare Candy, but the fact that Golisopod doesn't need Rare Candy does give it an edge. The only matchup that you need to worry about is Volcanion/Ho-oh/Turtonator variants. I have beat them with Golisopod before, but those wins had a lot to do with the fact that my opponents just weren't drawing the energy they needed. Still, every deck has terrible match-ups. If you can get one big knockout with Golisopod, you can try and have your Trashalanche Garbodor take over late game and try to get the win that way. It's a rough match-up, but it can be winnable.

Gardevoir is overpowered, but it does have it's flaws. It can falter setting up. You have to be aggressive early game, which is something that Golisopod can do.

Like Duo said, who knows whats going to happen with the format since it is so new. There could be a card that comes out next set that makes Gardevoir not as strong.

 

[Devin Ward]

I've been playing Golisopod/Garbodor since I saw the deck at Worlds and I love it. I even took it to a tournament yesterday and finished second, with my only loss coming from a Turbo Darkrai deck that was able to set up faster than me (it also didn't help that I was dead drawing, but it happens to the best of us).

I think the deck is so good because it has an "answer" to many big decks in the format right now. Garbotoxin shuts down Gardevoir's Secret Spring, which makes the matchup a bit more even. I've been able to get Garbotoxin active Turn 2 and completely shut down Gardevoir before it even gets going. It also shuts downs Greninja's ability, which along with it's weakness to Grass, heavily tilts the matchup in your favor. It also shuts down Metagross' ability, which that deck absolutely needs to have access to if it wants to win.

Golisopod also combos perfectly with Supporters like Acerola and Guzma, allowing you to deny your opponent prize cards and disrupt them. It's also one of the more "speedier" deck going into post-rotation. Lots of decks run Stage 2s. Golisopod can be up and running as soon as your second turn. Sure, Stage 2 decks can too with Rare Candy, but the fact that Golisopod doesn't need Rare Candy does give it an edge. The only matchup that you need to worry about is Volcanion/Ho-oh/Turtonator variants. I have beat them with Golisopod before, but those wins had a lot to do with the fact that my opponents just weren't drawing the energy they needed. Still, every deck has terrible match-ups. If you can get one big knockout with Golisopod, you can try and have your Trashalanche Garbodor take over late game and try to get the win that way. It's a rough match-up, but it can be winnable.

Gardevoir is overpowered, but it does have it's flaws. It can falter setting up. You have to be aggressive early game, which is something that Golisopod can do.

Like Duo said, who knows whats going to happen with the format since it is so new. There could be a card that comes out next set that makes Gardevoir not as strong.

If you play the 1 normal Goli it will help a lot with the Volc matchup. Hitting 180 on the Ex's 1-shots them. If you have a Kukui you can also 1-shot the Ho-oh and the Turts.

 

[Duo]

I've been playing Golisopod/Garbodor since I saw the deck at Worlds and I love it. I even took it to a tournament yesterday and finished second, with my only loss coming from a Turbo Darkrai deck that was able to set up faster than me (it also didn't help that I was dead drawing, but it happens to the best of us).

I think the deck is so good because it has an "answer" to many big decks in the format right now. Garbotoxin shuts down Gardevoir's Secret Spring, which makes the matchup a bit more even. I've been able to get Garbotoxin active Turn 2 and completely shut down Gardevoir before it even gets going. It also shuts downs Greninja's ability, which along with it's weakness to Grass, heavily tilts the matchup in your favor. It also shuts down Metagross' ability, which that deck absolutely needs to have access to if it wants to win.

Golisopod also combos perfectly with Supporters like Acerola and Guzma, allowing you to deny your opponent prize cards and disrupt them. It's also one of the more "speedier" deck going into post-rotation. Lots of decks run Stage 2s. Golisopod can be up and running as soon as your second turn. Sure, Stage 2 decks can too with Rare Candy, but the fact that Golisopod doesn't need Rare Candy does give it an edge. The only matchup that you need to worry about is Volcanion/Ho-oh/Turtonator variants. I have beat them with Golisopod before, but those wins had a lot to do with the fact that my opponents just weren't drawing the energy they needed. Still, every deck has terrible match-ups. If you can get one big knockout with Golisopod, you can try and have your Trashalanche Garbodor take over late game and try to get the win that way. It's a rough match-up, but it can be winnable.

Gardevoir is overpowered, but it does have it's flaws. It can falter setting up. You have to be aggressive early game, which is something that Golisopod can do.

Like Duo said, who knows whats going to happen with the format since it is so new. There could be a card that comes out next set that makes Gardevoir not as strong.

Golisopod GX is a deck I've been considering for a long time, but I ultimately I decided I only wanted to play one "top tier" deck.

Doing an analysis of potential meta, I've actually found great success with Salazzle GX. It's a low energy attacker with great match ups against the current "Big 3" - Gardevoir GX, Metagross GX, and Golisopod GX/Garbodor. It's far more efficient than Ho-Oh GX/Turtonator GX/Volcanion EX in terms of OHKOing weakness and not succumbing to Gardevoir GX OHKOs the turn after you play Kiawe. Not to mention, Salazzle GX's GX attack completely ruins Gardevoir GX and Kiawe dependant fire decks.

I don't know if I'd call it my secret weapon, but my "RGB" Salazzle GX decklist with pure focus on assassinating basics and stage 1 evolutions like Kirlia has actually won 2-0, 2-0, and 2-1 against my Gardevoir GX deck list, which I believe you are fairly familiar with at this point. I call it RGB since I run both Salazzles, Lurantis, and Octillery for draw power. Lurantis is necessary to OHKO 130 HP set up pokemon like Talonflame and Yveltal/Xerneas. It's also needed to raise Flamethrower on the little Salazzle (Lil'lazzle for short) to 110 for OHKOs on baby Alolan Ninetales, in case you have to Evosoda to evolve as an emergency instead of evolve from hand. Probably going to auto lose that match up anyway, but at least you can try. It also allows for no Choice Band OHKOs against Metagross GX and Armor Pressed Golisopod GX, so your damage is immune to Field Blower (that being said I still run Choice Band for 4 prize Diabolical Claws hitting for 230 OHKOs on Gardevoir GX and it can OHKO Leles with Salazzle status damage).

I don't know if I'd encourage Salazzle GX, but I'm seeing a lot of success with it right now. It is unbelievably consistent even with 3 Stage 1 lines thanks to Evosoda. Getting in between turn status KOs feels pretty rewarding and is not that hard to pull off.

 

[Draskk]

Golisopod GX is a deck I've been considering for a long time, but I ultimately I decided I only wanted to play one "top tier" deck.

Doing an analysis of potential meta, I've actually found great success with Salazzle GX. It's a low energy attacker with great match ups against the current "Big 3" - Gardevoir GX, Metagross GX, and Golisopod GX/Garbodor. It's far more efficient than Ho-Oh GX/Turtonator GX/Volcanion EX in terms of OHKOing weakness and not succumbing to Gardevoir GX OHKOs the turn after you play Kiawe. Not to mention, Salazzle GX's GX attack completely ruins Gardevoir GX and Kiawe dependant fire decks.

I don't know if I'd call it my secret weapon, but my "RGB" Salazzle GX decklist with pure focus on assassinating basics and stage 1 evolutions like Kirlia has actually won 2-0, 2-0, and 2-1 against my Gardevoir GX deck list, which I believe you are fairly familiar with at this point. I call it RGB since I run both Salazzles, Lurantis, and Octillery for draw power. Lurantis is necessary to OHKO 130 HP set up pokemon like Talonflame and Yveltal/Xerneas. It's also needed to raise Flamethrower on the little Salazzle (Lil'lazzle for short) to 110 for OHKOs on baby Alolan Ninetales, in case you have to Evosoda to evolve as an emergency instead of evolve from hand. Probably going to auto lose that match up anyway, but at least you can try. It also allows for no Choice Band OHKOs against Metagross GX and Armor Pressed Golisopod GX, so your damage is immune to Field Blower (that being said I still run Choice Band for 4 prize Diabolical Claws hitting for 230 OHKOs on Gardevoir GX and it can OHKO Leles with Salazzle status damage).

I don't know if I'd encourage Salazzle GX, but I'm seeing a lot of success with it right now. It is unbelievably consistent even with 3 Stage 1 lines thanks to Evosoda. Getting in between turn status KOs feels pretty rewarding and is not that hard to pull off.

I definitely agree that Salazzle is underrated and should be Tier 2. Have you tried Kiawe/Ho Oh/Salazzle?

 

[Duo]

I definitely agree that Salazzle is underrated and should be Tier 2. Have you tried Kiawe/Ho Oh/Salazzle?

I've seen a build of it, play tested it, and didn't like it because of all of the disadvantages Kiawe brings. It doesn't progress your hand or your board and it invests everything into Ho-Oh GX, meaning once you get KO'd you're kind of screwed, and you still have to have resources to be able to switch out of the active and back in to continuously attack.

Salazzle GX, as a Stage 1 deck, naturally demands 2 turns to attach 2 energy and reach stage 1 to enable all 3 of its attacks. It's the most energy efficient deck right now, in my opinion. Ho-Oh GX is high risk, high reward, and I just don't like that.

 

[HouchinsDJ]

Golisopod GX is a deck I've been considering for a long time, but I ultimately I decided I only wanted to play one "top tier" deck.

Doing an analysis of potential meta, I've actually found great success with Salazzle GX. It's a low energy attacker with great match ups against the current "Big 3" - Gardevoir GX, Metagross GX, and Golisopod GX/Garbodor. It's far more efficient than Ho-Oh GX/Turtonator GX/Volcanion EX in terms of OHKOing weakness and not succumbing to Gardevoir GX OHKOs the turn after you play Kiawe. Not to mention, Salazzle GX's GX attack completely ruins Gardevoir GX and Kiawe dependant fire decks.

I don't know if I'd call it my secret weapon, but my "RGB" Salazzle GX decklist with pure focus on assassinating basics and stage 1 evolutions like Kirlia has actually won 2-0, 2-0, and 2-1 against my Gardevoir GX deck list, which I believe you are fairly familiar with at this point. I call it RGB since I run both Salazzles, Lurantis, and Octillery for draw power. Lurantis is necessary to OHKO 130 HP set up pokemon like Talonflame and Yveltal/Xerneas. It's also needed to raise Flamethrower on the little Salazzle (Lil'lazzle for short) to 110 for OHKOs on baby Alolan Ninetales, in case you have to Evosoda to evolve as an emergency instead of evolve from hand. Probably going to auto lose that match up anyway, but at least you can try. It also allows for no Choice Band OHKOs against Metagross GX and Armor Pressed Golisopod GX, so your damage is immune to Field Blower (that being said I still run Choice Band for 4 prize Diabolical Claws hitting for 230 OHKOs on Gardevoir GX and it can OHKO Leles with Salazzle status damage).

I don't know if I'd encourage Salazzle GX, but I'm seeing a lot of success with it right now. It is unbelievably consistent even with 3 Stage 1 lines thanks to Evosoda. Getting in between turn status KOs feels pretty rewarding and is not that hard to pull off.

Would you mind posting your deck list? I've actually been thinking about trying a Salazzle deck myself. I think it's definitely an underrated card!

 

[Draskk]

I've seen a build of it, play tested it, and didn't like it because of all of the disadvantages Kiawe brings. It doesn't progress your hand or your board and it invests everything into Ho-Oh GX, meaning once you get KO'd you're kind of screwed, and you still have to have resources to be able to switch out of the active and back in to continuously attack.

Salazzle GX, as a Stage 1 deck, naturally demands 2 turns to attach 2 energy and reach stage 1 to enable all 3 of its attacks. It's the most energy efficient deck right now, in my opinion. Ho-Oh GX is high risk, high reward, and I just don't like that.

That is definitely true, but when Ho Oh survives, the deck is amazing.

Also, a rogue deck that absolutely owns Gardevoir, is this weird Aegislash spread deck I made the other day. Heres the list:

Pokemon (23):

2x Tapu Koko
1x Necrozma GX
2x Weavile BUS
2x Sneasel
1x Mr. Mime
1x Drampa GX (Oh, your going to not bench anything so I can't do anything? Drampa says hi.)
1x Spiritomb STS (Promo Tapu Lele is much better but I don't have it yet.)
3x Aegislash
2x Doublade
3x Honedge
1x Espeon EX
4x Tapu Lele GX

Trainers (27):

4x Sycamore
4x N
1x Brigette
1x Skyla
4x Ultra Ball
2x Nest Ball
1x Special Charge
1x Rescue Stretcher
1x Super Rod
3x Rare Candy
2x Float Stone
3x Po Town

Energy (10):

6x Darkness Energy (Swap to Psychic if you have Lele)
4x Double Colorless Energy

Between Necrozma, Espeon, Weavile, AND Po Town, Gardey doesn't stand a chance against this deck. I've gone 5-0 against Gardey and each game has been an easy victory. Many other decks can't take this deck either-the only bad matchup I've noticed is Drampa Garb.

 

[Duo]

Would you mind posting your deck list? I've actually been thinking about trying a Salazzle deck myself. I think it's definitely an underrated card!

I'm currently working with this:

Pokemon x20

Salazzle GX x3
Salazzle x2
Salandit x4
Fomantis x2
Lurantis x2
Remoraid x2 (Zorua)
Octillery x2 (Zoroark GX)
Tapu Lele GX x3

Supporter x13

Sycamore x3
N x4
Guzma x4
Brigette x1
Acerola x1


Items x 17

Ultra Ball x4
Evosoda x4
Choice Band x3
Float Stone x4
Field Blower x2

Energy x10

Fire Energy x10

I'm still debating if I want Zoroark GX to replace Octillery since this is a deck that can reach 0 cards in hand quite often, but to say the least, Zoroark will give this deck a better match up against water decks and potentially save you from bricked hands. I think it's just a matter of altering your sequencing to make Zoroark GX end up being better than Octillery. It's hard to say until I have them in my hands.

The logic behind this deck is to take 2 early KOs - one on a set up Pokemon, and the other on a pre-evolved main attacker. So in the example of Gardevoir GX, KO a Diancie/Alolan Vulpix, then KO a Ralts/Kirlia. If you're fortunate, you can KO a Diancie/Alolan Vulpix and then KO a Lele with Choice Band + Salazzle status for 3 early prizes (this is optimal).

Once that happens, you only need to take your 4th or 5th prize, have a Salazzle GX with 2 energy left, and you basically win if you have no OHKO threats.

4 Guzma/4 Float Stone makes this deck hyper aggressive. With all of the 2/2 lines I run, I actually end up starting Salandit a little less often than I would like. The Float Stone gets anything not Salandit out of the active and gives you a pivot for Guzma so you can assassinate the bench. The Guzma also lets you Guzma out of your unideal active on turn 2 for a surprise KO. I would love to run Kokos in this list for a pivot, but your bench space is at the maximum limit already.

Brigette + 4 Evosoda +4 Ultra Ball is unbelievable at getting 2 to 3 stage 1's evolved on turn 2. Having Salazzle GX and Octillery on turn 2 is very common. 4 Evosoda is a must with all of the different lines I run. If Evosoda ever rotates out of the game, I will almost immediately stop playing Stage 1 centric decks. Timer Ball is absolutely not a replacement.

10 Fire Energy seems to be working out, and I would definitely not go any lower. You must be drawing energy every turn through Octillery/N/Sycamore. I've considered going up to 12 energy so that 1/5th of the deck is energy as opposed to 1/6th, but I sometimes open the game with 3 energy in hand as it is.

I think this deck could use some tweaking, but for now it's operating like butter.

That is definitely true, but when Ho Oh survives, the deck is amazing.

Also, a rogue deck that absolutely owns Gardevoir, is this weird Aegislash spread deck I made the other day. Heres the list:

Pokemon (23):

2x Tapu Koko
1x Necrozma GX
2x Weavile BUS
2x Sneasel
1x Mr. Mime
1x Drampa GX (Oh, your going to not bench anything so I can't do anything? Drampa says hi.)
1x Spiritomb STS (Promo Tapu Lele is much better but I don't have it yet.)
3x Aegislash
2x Doublade
3x Honedge
1x Espeon EX
4x Tapu Lele GX

Trainers (27):

4x Sycamore
4x N
1x Brigette
1x Skyla
4x Ultra Ball
2x Nest Ball
1x Special Charge
1x Rescue Stretcher
1x Super Rod
3x Rare Candy
2x Float Stone
3x Po Town

Energy (10):

6x Darkness Energy (Swap to Psychic if you have Lele)
4x Double Colorless Energy

Between Necrozma, Espeon, Weavile, AND Po Town, Gardey doesn't stand a chance against this deck. I've gone 5-0 against Gardey and each game has been an easy victory. Many other decks can't take this deck either-the only bad matchup I've noticed is Drampa Garb.

I've seen a few spread lists here and there and they are definitely very interesting. They don't match my playstyle, or I guess rather my play logic, unfortunately.