Discussion Meta Changing Cards: Rage of the Torn Heavens

poke4trade

poke4trade

Raising Ash
Member
Alright guys, what pokemon do you think will be Meta Changing cards?

My pick:

Espeon Ex

I believe everyone will be running a single copy of Espeon because Garbodor is back. I know...I know it doesn't hit for anything, and even it's second attack is worthless. But devolution with a float stone is very powerful. Imagine your bats getting turned off. Yikes! Or that Mega that has way to many hit points and you just hit for 180. Yikes! Espeon to the rescue. devolve the opponents pokemon and turn your bats back on, or just knock out that mega by devolving him with single energy card and knocking out the EX. Wow! Espeon you rock! Pst... Only the pokemon goes back to the hand not the tool. All damage counters stay with the current pokemon. Wowziers! I think there is more than meets the eye. <<-->> Transformers -->> It had to be said.
 
Espeon-EX is garbage. Devolution is never used in the TCG because the opponent can simply evolve again next turn. Knocking them out is an option, but chances are you could just attack, score the KO, and leave your opponent with one less Pokemon (since if you devolve them they would keep the evolution card which could be used to evolve something else)

Here are some cards I think have potential (some more than others):

1. Meganium

A bit weak, but has plenty of HP. Healing a consistent 50-70 damage a turn is nothing to scoff at. Once Overgrow kicks in you are pretty much guaranteed a full cure with every attack.

2. Durant

MILL MILL MILL Unfortunately his good attack takes two Energy. Otherwise, Rainbow would be stellar here.

3. M Gyarados-EX

If you add a fifth Water Energy you can swing for 220 which knocks out low-HP Megas. Gyarados-EX can accelerate (sometimes), which is nice.

4. Suicune

Everything about this card is great. It will definitely see play.

5. Manaphy-EX

It's sort of a replacement for Keldeo in standard. Unlike Keldeo, however, his attack is pretty bad.

6. Seismitoad

I can definitely see some speed Seismitoad builds happening with his awesome first attack. Very easy to hit the T3 90.

7. Zebstrika

Mostly as a tech for Lightning decks. Completely annihilates bird pokemon.

8. Garbodor

nuff said

9. Phantump

Ascension is always good; allows for a T2 break

10. Trevenant BREAK

Great card, has synergy with Trevenant XY. Gives Trevenant a much-appreciated boost in HP.

11. Garchomp

It can take advantage of Fighting support, attacks for one Energy, and can accelerate. You can also one-shot most basic Pokemon-EX with his second attack (which only costs two Energy) with a little boost.

12. Darkrai-EX

The potential is definitely there. Yveltal XY can help accelerate his first move, and I guess Hypno from this set can make the second one more consistent if you utilize Sparkling Robe.

13. M Scizor-EX

It attacks hard and fast. Very disruptive.

14. Clefable

Stops dragons in their tracks, which is hilarious. Not good for much else, though.

15. Raticate BREAK

In expanded you can use lasers for consistent OHKOs. It's DCE-able too, but the HP is nothing to write home about.
 
If you ran Startling Megaphone, Espeon makes a decent stall vs Mega decks. Just get rid of the Spirit Links then devolve. Not amazing though.

As for meta-defining, Garbodor is the one that mainly stands out, as it means everyone will have to play Megaphone/Xerosic.

Mega Scizor is also one of those low-energy, 2HKOing Megas, so I think that will see play.

Manaphy-EX will see play in some decks, but not sure if it will make as big an impact as Darkrai did.

Garchomp is another one, I can see it used with Maxie's in Night March to recycle DCE and hit for weakness against Lightning-types.

Of the Breaks, I think Greninja and Trevenant both look very good. Unsure how consistent the Greninja deck will be, but the stage 2's first attack can shut your opponent out of a lot of stuff if they run an ability deck. The Trevenant line in general is getting a very nice buff with Ascension Phantump being printed in this set, but it remains to be seen whether the deck is better than Vileplume...

Time Puzzle is the Trainer card that sticks out most to me. Delinquent is one of those "remains to be seen" cards, imo.
 
Ya, I like Manphy a lot but another low hp bench pokemon in the standard besides Shaymin will be tough. I think a lot of the goods ones are ability reliant, because of this, Garbodor will see play with MewTwo, Siesmitoad, Yveltal and others. Espeon I think is good because it's another way to knock tools out. But for spread decks like norviern and and gernigia you can knock a few engine pokemon out all at the same time in one shot -- Bronzongs, Slurpufs, Octillary, Combes, phantums, Zorak and other low remaining fruits just by devolving them for one energy. After playing latios a bit in standard, I've realized once these engines go in standard, its basically tough to get back into the game, because most decks are running only a 2/2 line of them and opting for more trainers. Pause...I believe Latios top cut in Florida. Though, who knows, but I don't think the card is garbage. I just think some of the best abilities in standard are on very low hp pokemon, where as in expanded they are on very high HP pokemon. Just reasoning out that would create some sort of change in the dynamics of game from expanded to standard which would allow a card like espeon to become a bit more dangerous. But, who knows, as it all comes down to testing.
 
To say garbodor and nuff said isn't proper, please explain.

Idk about garbodor and mewtwo, both mega's rely too heavily on abilities to run the deck. Yveltal maybe, but with zoroark being a thing hex becomes much easier to play.

Espeon EX bats maybe, but jolteon EX/magnezone is a lot better.

1. Max Elixir, "Look at the top 6 cards of your deck. You may choose a basic Energy card you find there and attach it to 1 of your Basic Benched Pokemon. Shuffle the remaining cards back into your deck" For decks that run a lot of low energy attackers this card comes in handy for setup, this card also comes in handy in times when your dead drawing as an easy way to reshuffle while also having access to an energy, this is possibly the most versatile item card out of the set.

2. Fighting Spirit Belt, "The Basic Pokemon this card is attached to gets its max HP increased by 40 and its attacks do 10 more damage to your opponent’s Active Pokemon." This makes decks a lot more bulky making basic EX's hit 210-220 hp or wailord hit 290 hp, power creep hits the game hard with this card making it a hard choice for switching muscle band out in some to most decks, some decks can afford to lose 10 while others cannot.

3. Frogadier/greninja, the deck is easily a tier deck coming right out of the set, also being an non-ex and able to hit for 180 dmg per turn before attack makes the deck very easily a good deck (this was also a popular deck when garbodor was playable), plus this deck use's all water mechanics.

4. Sudowoodo, [F][C] Let’s Imitate: If your opponent used a Pokemon’s attack during his or her last turn, use that attack as this attack. Let's say manectric used assault laser, ohko manectric, 30 dmg everywhere, 30 dmg everywhere, etc. Sudowoodo has a versatile use in this format I wouldn't be surprised to see this card in some decks, or all that play bronzong/smeargle.

5. Trevenant BREAK, Darkness weakness is a bit of an issue due to the current tier 1 and tier S for both extended and standard. 30 dmg to everything, then gengar which has the attack "if your opponents pokemon has 30 dmg on it that pokemon is knocked out" is pretty dark with xy 55 trevenant trainer lock you put the break on top of, hitting a turn 1 wallys for the trainer lock is fairly consistent, then the turn after you break, 1 psychic and a dimension valley and 30 to everyone.

Honorable mentions: scizor/mega scizor, Fire is to popular in both standard and extended to think about playing scizor and calling it good, entei in standard and vespiquen/flareon, not worth, but so totally worth collecting. Burst balloon, thanks to garbodor more people will play more tool hate cards making this 1 turn lysandre into something else makes the card to easy to counter but worth teching in something like toad/bats for extended. Delinquent, this card will most undoubtedly see play, the same kind of play I see in most decks, at the mid to bottom tables (that's right, I'm talking to those that put 3 giovanni's in their deck, this is a thing a lot of players I talked to noticed, myself as well), or 1 of only used to get past those tables in a top 8 deck. Reverse valley, pokemon "we needed more cards for darkness pokemon to deal more dmg" yup. gyarados/mega gyarados, manectric is everywhere and it does well in multiple variants, gyarados is not as fast as mega ray(c) which makes it hard to counter manectric and night march which have 1-2 energy attachment versus 4 before stadiums, pokemon, and trainers.
 
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Forgot about Burst Balloon. This card will definitely be good with Toad, may even be a Jirachi counter because it would put 6 damage counters on the Jirachi after hit, knocking it out instantly and negating Stardust's secondary effect.
 
Always buy a set of trainers for every meta. The really good ones, I buy more. I purchased 10 VS seekers when they came out and I'm kicking myself for not buying. I have quite a few trainers mail too. Max elixer and fighting belt are the cards I will buy in multiples. I agree, they will definitely change the format.
 
Burst balloon could possibly be interesting in Garbodor decks to disable abilities for 1 turn alike Hex Maniac.
 
I really really really really really like Garchomp and Time Puzzle. Also, the new Greninja's are also fun. A fun card might be the new Trevenant with Head Ringer. Most decks in the current format are basic or EX, so if you are facing Night March, they have to have three energy to attack with Joltik or three energy and a dimension valley to attack with Pumpkaboo. Also, Garbodor is back, so that's scary.
 
@NintendoAlian I think that Trevenant deck will be better than it looks. If it gets played more, I could see a huge decrease in Night March. Garchomp, I think is a bit of hype card just because it can flip with maxies. The thing about maxies is consistency, and with garchomp using a single fighting energy I just feel Gallade will fit better in most decks. There are just better ways to accelerate energy that don't require as much work.
 
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3 biggest cards imo are Garbodor, Max Elixir and Delinquent. I also think Darkrai EX will be strong and is kinda flying under the radar right now. It has the capability to hit for 190 with a dce and dark energy, muscle band and new stadium if the opponent is asleep- and then dark head can be accelerated by things in the format such as aforementioned Max Elixir, Togekiss, Milotic, Hydreigon, Yveltal, Double Dragon Energy, probably some other things too (alpha growth mons attaching 2 at a time?). I could see Darkrai EX/Hydreigon/Hypno being a thing perhaps.
 
Darkrai is my second favourite Pokémon, but to be fair I don't think this new EX will be competitive in the slightest. Maybe in expanded combined with 4 dark patch it will be good. A deck like Mega Gardevoir that relies on having energy on the field gets weaker every time a Pokémon gets knocked out. They are easily crippled unlike decks that use bronzong acceleration, those only get stronger the longer in play. Also with the introduction of Fighting Spirit Belt hitting 180 is likely not quite enough to knock out most Pokémon. I wouldn't be surprised to see it in nearly every deck that uses strong basics. Darkrai's second attack looks even worse. Machamp's Crazy Hammer is superior in nearly every way. It doesn't even come close to that particular attack. Crazy Hammer is a consistent 160 plus healing itself, plus a poison on the opponent's active Pokémon, plus all the fighting support to make it hit even harder. Dark Head can also be consistent when combined with Hypno. But Darkrai EX will also be asleep... The only thing going for it is that it can use DCE, but I wouldn't want to rely on that too much. Also the fighting weakness and the retreat cost of two is nothing to brag about.

The art is lovely though. I love that cute Full Art version.
 
Pokémon:

Garchomp:
Between Assault Turbo for acceleration and Biting Pledge for fast ohkos this card sure is a beast and if you ask me it is the best cards from this set. It can abuse all the Fighting assistance cards and recycles Strong Energy. The only downside to this card is that it is not easily splashable.

Greninja line:
Combined with Greninja from XY1 this deck is much better than it looks at first glance. Giant Water Shuriken and Water Shuriken accelerate damage and the attack costs are real low. The main card that makes Greninja decks viable is the new Frogadier. Water Clone speeds the deck up a lot and allows Greninja to swarm. Greninja is also one of the few decks that can benefit from Splash Energy since it helps to conserve the evolution line.

Trevenant line:
The new Phantump is an excellent addition to Trevenant decks. The odds to have a turn one Trevenant are already excellent when going first and an almost secure Trevenant when going second. The new Trevenant can be a decent tech in Trevenant decks but the focus will be on Trevenant XY1. Trevenant Break boosts the HP and also has a nice assistance attack. With the new set Trevenant will become one of the fastest lock decks. The only downside is the Darkness weakness.

Zebstrika:
Nice ability for Lightning decks and a splashable attack that makes him an awesome Flying-type counter.

Darkrai Ex:
Dark Pulse can be awesome in extended with Dark Patch. In standard it does not seem that great unless you can get him to work with Metal Links and Smeargle. Dark Head is nice too with Hypno and All-Night Party. The only downside to that combo is that you loose the benefit of the status condition if you cannot ohko the defender with Dark Head and Muscle Band attached.

Jolteon Ex:
An attack that prevents damage from all basic Pokémon and free reteat turns this one into a great card in Lightning decks and Rainbow decks.

Espeon Ex:
Nice tech card in Mewtwo Y decks to counter Safe Guard Pokémon that cannot be shut down with Hex Maniac. The first attack can be decent too with startling Megaphone, Bats and other spread attackers in the right meta game. It sure is not a card that will have a deck based on it but it is an overlooked tech card.

Trainers:

Burst Balloon:
Tried it in item lock and it worked real well. The card is quite disruptive.

Fighting Spirit Belt:
Nice addition to the arsenal of control deck that have ways to accelersate damage other than tools.

Time Puzzle:
Exactly the card Night March needed. Just be sure to play it together with a tech Teammates and four Vs Seekers but both cards are standards in Night March decks anyway.

Max Elixir:
Love this card but did not manage to get it to work as well as I would like to thus far.

Misty's Spirit:
Look through the top eight cards and choose one of them. Great card in Seismitoad Ex decks featuring Empoleon to search for that double Colorless Energy.

Reverse Valley:
Great addition to Yveltal Zoroark decks. Darkness loves all the assistance it obtained in the last two sets.

Best Art:

The best art award has to go to Espeon Ex. That card looks awesome and is one of my favorit Full Art cards besides Giovanni's Scheme.
 
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