Discussion Nerf Malamar EX!

[TCGDeoxys]

PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS NOT SOME 5 YEAR OLD RANTING "HAX! BANZZ!"!!!!

I just played against a Malamar deck on TCGO, and I have decided it was way too overpowered, considering the fact that it took out my TDK in 8 minutes 12 seconds!

First off, its ability. "Hyper Hypnosis" makes it so that everytime an energy is attached, your active is asleep.

WTF?!

You should at least have to flip a coin first! Thats why I could not retaliate!

Next, its attack, MAXamar, is basically Evil Ball but it is 60x, not 20x. Way too op!

 

[ImmortalDarkrai]

MAXamar is nowhere near the level of Evil Ball. It's 60HP yeah, but it's a coin flip. There's only a 12.5% chance of KOing an EX assuming there are three energies attached to it. As for the hypnosis, the coin flip is between turns. If you flip a heads and your Pokemon is awake, HH failed. If you flip tails and it's asleep, it succeeded. As it stands now, it has a 50% success rate, require a coin flip initially and you reduce that to 25%. Just because you can't beat it doesn't mean it's OP, as with many other aspects of Pokemon TCG, it's a numbers game.

 

[Otaku]

I am betting if this thread wasn't made as an intentional joke, then someone needs to focus on what else was used alongside Malamar-EX.

 

[bbninjas]

Malamar's main flaw is that you can easily retaliate if you strategically put energy on your Benched Pokemon. TDK should actually be able to hit the high numbers need for 1-hit KOs, so it shouldn't have been too difficult unless your opponent had a lot of Lysandre.

 

[TCGDeoxys]

Malamar's main flaw is that you can easily retaliate if you strategically put energy on your Benched Pokemon. TDK should actually be able to hit the high numbers need for 1-hit KOs, so it shouldn't have been too difficult unless your opponent had a lot of Lysandre.

He did. And also flare grunts and enhanced hammers. Its like anti TDK. Attach energy, uses flare grunt or enhanced hammer. Had a pokemon ready? Lysandre.

 

[Otaku]

He did. And also flare grunts and enhanced hammers. Its like anti TDK. Attach energy, uses flare grunt or enhanced hammer. Had a pokemon ready? Lysandre.

So perhaps if you are going to be upset, it should be about those cards?

Sleep has a 50% chance of going away on its own between turns, so even an opponent puts your Active to Sleep with Malamar-EX, there is a good chance said Sleep won't stick around. If your opponent was keeping Thundurus-EX [Plasma] from attacking (and accelerating Energy from the discard pile) and/or taking out multiple Energy a turn thanks to Enhanced Hammer and/or Team Flare Grunt, it is rough but that it might not be a sound approach to the deck against whatever your opponent was running.

Team Flare Grunt only works on your Active while Enhanced Hammer can only target Special Energies, plus the former uses your Supporter for the turn. Unless your opponent got lucky, again consider what other support your opponent was using to compensate for the cost of Team Flare Grunt. Perhaps Shaymin-EX (ROS) and its "Setup" Ability?

 

[Mao999]

regice and sparkling robe should do the trick!
But beware of energy destruption cards...

 

[Yo-yos]

Switch, pokemon centre lady, hex, silent lab, escape rope, wobbuffet, suicune, pyroar, latias EX, that is a lot of things that counter malamar.

 

[TCGDeoxys]

So perhaps if you are going to be upset, it should be about those cards?

Sleep has a 50% chance of going away on its own between turns, so even an opponent puts your Active to Sleep with Malamar-EX, there is a good chance said Sleep won't stick around. If your opponent was keeping Thundurus-EX [Plasma] from attacking (and accelerating Energy from the discard pile) and/or taking out multiple Energy a turn thanks to Enhanced Hammer and/or Team Flare Grunt, it is rough but that it might not be a sound approach to the deck against whatever your opponent was running.

Team Flare Grunt only works on your Active while Enhanced Hammer can only target Special Energies, plus the former uses your Supporter for the turn. Unless your opponent got lucky, again consider what other support your opponent was using to compensate for the cost of Team Flare Grunt. Perhaps Shaymin-EX (ROS) and its "Setup" Ability?

Im running plasma, I RELY on special energy

 

[thegrovylekid]

This seems silly. Malamar isn't extremely strong on its own whatsoever, but rather, as a side in Yveltal or Aromatisse decks. Or even M Sceptile.

 

[Otaku]

Im running plasma, I RELY on special energy

You are missing the point:

You are focusing on Malamar-EX when far better attackers would have smacked you around just as bad given the support you were facing. What you should be doing is asking yourself "Is something like this going to be a common problem and if so, is there a way I can work in a few Basic Energy cards to try and help counter it?" Keep in mind, you are using an older deck that is no where near as good as it once was because indeed, many decks include countermeasures for Special Energy cards because almost every deck runs (with quite a few relying upon) Special Energy cards.

 

[Eggrolls13]

I'm gonna be blunt here (sorry). You seem like you approached the matchup wrong. Enhanced Hammer only works on special energy, so all you had to do to get around that was focus on using Raiden Knuckle to get back whatever basic energy cards his Flare Grunts discarded. If you don't play any basic energy, that's just bad deck building considering the amount of special energy hate in the format. I don't remember if it was common for TDK decks to run Keldeo EX, but that plus Float Stone is an easy option to eliminate the Sleep spam. If Malamar is REALLY such a problem as an attacker against you, power up a freaking Deoxys, which punishes your opponent for stacking energy on their Pokémon (which is exactly what Malamar does). Deoxys can be powered up in one turn with an attachment from hand and a Colress Machine, and Muscle Band eliminates the slight problem of Malamar having Psychic resistance. You have a direct counter to Malamar built into your deck, and so few people actually run Malamar in their decks that there is no way whatsoever that it would need to be nerfed.

 

[TCGDeoxys]

I'm gonna be blunt here (sorry). You seem like you approached the matchup wrong. Enhanced Hammer only works on special energy, so all you had to do to get around that was focus on using Raiden Knuckle to get back whatever basic energy cards his Flare Grunts discarded. If you don't play any basic energy, that's just bad deck building considering the amount of special energy hate in the format. I don't remember if it was common for TDK decks to run Keldeo EX, but that plus Float Stone is an easy option to eliminate the Sleep spam. If Malamar is REALLY such a problem as an attacker against you, power up a freaking Deoxys, which punishes your opponent for stacking energy on their Pokémon (which is exactly what Malamar does). Deoxys can be powered up in one turn with an attachment from hand and a Colress Machine, and Muscle Band eliminates the slight problem of Malamar having Psychic resistance. You have a direct counter to Malamar built into your deck, and so few people actually run Malamar in their decks that there is no way whatsoever that it would need to be nerfed.

First of all, TDK is only special energy! 4 Plasma, 4 Prism, 4 Blend WLFM. I couldn't get Keldeo because no one would trade it. Malamars also only need 3 energy to knock out everything I have. Plus, it is resistant to psychic.

 

[bbninjas]

First of all, TDK is only special energy! 4 Plasma, 4 Prism, 4 Blend WLFM. I couldn't get Keldeo because no one would trade it. Malamars also only need 3 energy to knock out everything I have. Plus, it is resistant to psychic.

Unfortunately the fact you were are unable to afford the primary counter of Keldeo does not mean that Malamar is highly overpowered, as most decks will run it to escape from Special Conditions. Also, Malamar doesn't work too well with only 3 energy, as there is a 0.125 chance that it will 1-hit KO. Also, Malamar must have 4 or less Energy attached to avoid getting 1-hit KO'd from a Deoxys. If you use something like Kyurem as a cheap prize as well as for the snipe, you can 1-hit KO Malamar fairly consistently, or at least win the prize trade.

 

[malamarch]

The reason that you lost is, as Eggrolls13 said, because you didn't handle the matchup properly. There were a few ways you could have avoided this issue entirely:

Firstly, by dropping two Blend WLFM Energy in favor of two Lightning Energy, you would have quite easily won the matchup. The idea is that you set up two Thundurus EX and chain Raiden Knuckles onto each other (similar to how M Manectric EX works). This way, you can negate the opponent's energy denial, and with a Muscle Band and a Deoxys EX (or even easier, three Deoxys EX), you can 3HKO their Malamar EX. As soon as you hit it twice for at least 60, you should win due to being able to revenge KO and their need for three energy to KO you in return, which they just can't do.

Secondly, by dropping the switching cards in your list for one Keldeo EX and two Float Stone, you would have counteracted Hyper Hypnosis with ease. The idea of giving psuedo-free retreat through this isn't new to TDK (it helps with chaining Blizzard Burn), and should have been in the deck by default before you started playing the deck. I understand that you were unable to acquire these, but in that circumstance, you should have simply played something else.

Lastly, going for Deoxys EX early on would have completely won the game. You state that Malamar EX needed three energy to OHKO your Pokemon, so why not take advantage of it? When Malamar EX has only two energy and you have Muscle Band attached to Deoxys EX, you already are going for the 2HKO, which you can follow up with the Thundurus EX chain suggested earlier.

Basically, rather than complain about a card, think about the weaknesses it has, and how you can capitalize on them. In this case, chaining energy with Thundurus EX, going for Keldeo EX as your switching option and using Helix Force are all ways you can do this.

 

[Ivy_Profen]

I use a malamar in my deck. And I can personally say it's not OP. More often than not my opponent wakes up first turn.

 

[Otaku]

TCGDeoxys, I don't know how experienced you are with this game, but please understand that a lot of us are trying to be gentle with you... and your resistance to what we say has just kept this going long enough it might justify taking off the kid gloves. You don't have to like what we are saying, but that doesn't make it incorrect.

First of all, TDK is only special energy! 4 Plasma, 4 Prism, 4 Blend WLFM.

Reference? I don't remember that being considered an intrinsic part of the deck. Certain builds? Oh, yes they ran only Special Energy. This isn't quite the same as a "Haymaker" deck, where the term was used not only for a specific actual deck built around Hitmonchan (Base Set) but also for the approach of using only Basic Pokémon with low Energy attacks or built-in Energy acceleration, multiple attackers for Type matching plus disruptive Trainers. Hmm... I'm starting to understand why people so many years later are confused about "Haymaker". XP

So... a few key basic Energy cards is now considered typical for a good TDK build.

I couldn't get Keldeo because no one would trade it.

Keldeo-EX has had multiple releases, including one in a collector's tin, didn't it? Doesn't mean you could find someone willing to trade or afford to buy it, but it does mean that it isn't excessively difficult to obtain unless you have really restricted resources... and if you have really restricted resources, then it isn't fair to ignore than and claim "Card X is broken!". There are times when there being an extremely hard to obtain but otherwise widely played answer is not a "legitimate" counter, but obtaining the card must be difficult for the general playing public. A good example was Tropical Beach, though not countering anything it was useful and considered an important part of some very good decks, but both the overall card supply and the capacity for people to get it without buying from others was significantly constrained because it was a Worlds promo, only available to those who attended Worlds during an appropriate year.

So... missing piece is missing.

Malamars also only need 3 energy to knock out everything I have.

Welcome to Pokémon!

...

Sorry, but yeah, top attackers can do amazing things with three Energy and generally have been able to for the game's entire lifespan. OHKOing something with 180 HP hasn't been as common until recently, but now you expect three Energy attacks to at least set-up for a 2HKO reliably. "Reliably" is also important; Malamar-EX can score a OHKO of something with 130 to 180 HP, but with no other buffs it needs to flip three "heads". That is only one out of eight outcomes or a 12.5% chance: the odds of that are the same as the odds of it whiffing and doing no damage whatsoever!

Kyurem [Plasma] is a 130 HP Basic Pokémon that for three Energy can swing for 120 damage. With Muscle Band or Silver Bangle and Deoxys-EX, it too can OHKO everything in your deck. 50 less HP, but worth one less Prize. It has the drawback of being unable to attack again the next turn but a good TDK has a way around that plus it only matters if Kyurem [Plasma] survives... and if it survives it can try to do it again!

Plus, it is resistant to psychic.

A marginal advantage; Resistance is a well balanced mechanic in the Pokémon TCG... which means when it comes to competitive play it is rather under powered. Weakness on the other hand is insane as it flat out doubles the damage done.

 

[Eggrolls13]

First of all, TDK is only special energy! 4 Plasma, 4 Prism, 4 Blend WLFM. I couldn't get Keldeo because no one would trade it. Malamars also only need 3 energy to knock out everything I have. Plus, it is resistant to psychic.

As I said in my post, if you're only running special energy and no basic energy in this era of the game, where Hammers are rampant and Jirachi is on its way. Fix it. As I also said in my post, Muscle Band on the Deoxys negates Malamar's resistance.
AND, Keldeo EX is literally about five dollars or less right now. If you need it and no one has it, buy it online.

Edit:
After a thirty-second search online, I found multiple listings for a near-mint Legendary Treasures print for three dollars and twenty-five cents. You can manage.

 

[Otaku]

After a thirty-second search online, I found multiple listings for a near-mint Legendary Treasures print for three dollars and twenty-five cents. You can manage.

To be fair TCGDeoxys may be restricted to trading locally and who knows if anyone has not only a copy to trade and trade for a reasonable price. Again, doesn't mean Malamar-EX needs to be nerfed if TCGDeoxys is unfortunate enough to be unable to get this piece of TDK.

 

[Eggrolls13]

Yeah, that's true.